Government want votes on abolition of school uniforms

Lord TSC

Pretty sure I can't post the full article but the Irish Independant are reporting our beloved Minister Quinn wants schools with school uniforms to give parents a chance to vote on if they should have them or not.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parents-to-vote-on-whether-they-want-school-uniforms-scrapped-29744176.html

Parents will be asked to vote on a series of options such as:

• do they want a school uniform or not?

• if they opt for a uniform do they want trousers, jumpers, blouses, shirts and skirts in colours/shades available in the large retail chains?

• do they want a school blazer, a school crest on garments and what type?

He wants any changes to uniform policy implemented in the next school year, starting September 2014.

Can Quinn really force this through if a school says no? Strikes me they'd love them abolished to lower the "Back to school" allowances...

vamos!

I would have no issue with buying generic items and sewing a crest on jumpers. Would love love love to be rid of ties so I didn't have to ask for them to be pulled up a million times a day. Printing, photocopying and possibly posting an individual letter to each home will be costly though. Will it be the office responsible for counting votes and collating information or will the parents council do it? ... or perhaps the tutors and/or year heads? I love that he has just outlined a plan but we, who are probably going to have to do the extra paperwork have had no say on it.

** I'm not a parent but I remember my own family being bought more expensive shirts from Marks and they did us until we outgrew them. Is there a false economy involved in buying cheap things from Aldi and Tescos? Do they wash as well and last 5 days a week, 5 months a year?

whiteandlight

I had the same pinafore for 6 years of secondary school (and it did have a crest). Couldn't have asked for something cheaper than that!

evolving_doors

Sorry but I hate to say this is a load of shlock from RQ dressed up a radical labour reforms (and I'm sure he won't let us away without mentioning it in media interviews).

The state never wanted to take responsibility for education (since 1850)..merely to 'provide' for education. School uniform debate has being going on for yonks and its a matter for BOM and parents council..from what I gather most schools review this every year.

Bit of a non story (with due respect to the cost parents incur etc.).

byhookorbycrook

So he wants all this for Sept 2014? Does he even think this through??

RealJohn

This is a joke. In our place we have the paper for the photocopier under lock and key because of budget constraints. We had €400 as a sports budget. Is the government going to foot the bill for the printing, photocopying, posting and administration for all of this (which is already being done by the parents' councils anyway)?
And that's before we remind them that they needed to cut costs so badly that they broke their industrial agreement and bullied us into 'accepting' another in the case of the TUI and INTO and are hanging the ASTI out to dry for standing up for what's right.

This government is an utter joke. A general election can't come soon enough.

Ilac

Has the Minister nothing better to "reform"?

the_syco

Bleh. Do students still need to buy new books every one or two years? I think the Minister may be skirting around the real money-saving issues...

TheDriver

and in 5 years time when all the students are wearing mix match bits and bobs of all various shades and colours, a parents council meeting will decide how shabby the uniform looks and the poor image it gives the school...

From my experience, everyone has a different idea of whats expected and whats suitable. Some parents unfortunately think a mini skirt and trowels of makeup are school appropriate

rainbowtrout

I dunno, parents give out about the cost of uniforms but at the end of the day it's clothing that their children wear 5 days a week for 8 months of the year. They get a lot of wear out of it. By and large uniforms are made from durable materials. Some of the same parents wouldn't think twice about shelling out €70 for this season's football jersey, only to buy another one next season. They don't have to argue with their teenagers in the morning about what they are wearing because it's a given. If students weren't wearing uniforms they would probably be going through their normal clothes a lot faster.

teacherhead

It's really pandering to parents who are being 'ripped off' by schools and suffering an enormous 'financial burden'.

It is nothing short of ridiculous and rurai would be better served by addressing real issues such as how a kid with serious special needs can't get a sna.

Of he is serious about saving money he would let school shop around for their supplies rather than buying from an overpriced poor quality procurement framework which actually costs more than the way we were doing things

evolving_doors

Just wondering.... Who is going to colate and interpret all this data when the surveys are returned to the schools ?

killbillvol2

More BS from Quinn and Labour. Most schools consult parents about uniforms anyway and, as has been pointed out, wearing a uniform saves money.

The real doozy here though is that only schools that currently have uniforms will give parents a vote. If you don't have a uniform the parents can't opt to have one...:rolleyes:

spurious

I'm obviously delighted this most pressing (and educationally worthwhile) issue in Irish education is finally being tackled.

Over-crowded classrooms, special needs cuts, teacher pay cuts, teachers working for free, teachers being vilified for standing up for educational standards, crappy low hours CIDs, increment freezes, 'new' new Junior Cert. which is being bullied in...etc. etc....


God no, let's talk about uniforms.

wexsean

An absolute smokescreen. Just the other day I had quite an issue with 11 year old who would only have me buy a Nike school bag and runners. At least with the uniform you know the cost. Can you imagine the kids having a degree of choice, soon a street cred uniform would emerge with all the attendant costs.
When I was at school in the inner city (a long time ago) the guys from the social housing nearly always had the most expensive and up to date shoes

flutered

smoke and mirrors, the same with gilmore on his latest brain fart on who decides when a person lives or be put down, ffs they cant get doctors to sign a paper for an abortion, never mind this schit.

myopinion1981

It is widely known that the true reason why the minister is introducing the debate is an underhanded way of scrapping the 'Back to School' allowence for 2014/2015. This allowence pays for far more than uniforms and books..it covers the 'swimming money/photocopying money etc) . This true reason for introducing the debate is yet another underhanded move by government.

evolving_doors

myopinion1981 wrote: »

It is widely known that the true reason why the minister is introducing the debate is an underhanded way of scrapping the 'Back to School' allowence for 2014/2015. This allowence pays for far more than uniforms and books..it covers the 'swimming money/photocopying money etc) . This true reason for introducing the debate is yet another underhanded move by government.

Aye but dont forget government can't do diddlysquat...its the schools decision....and they can't tell schools what to do.

happywithlife

RealJohn wrote: »

This is a joke. In our place we have the paper for the photocopier under lock and key because of budget constraints. We had €400 as a sports budget. Is the government going to foot the bill for the printing, photocopying, posting and administration for all of this (which is already being done by the parents' councils anyway)?
And that's before we remind them that they needed to cut costs so badly that they broke their industrial agreement and bullied us into 'accepting' another in the case of the TUI and INTO and are hanging the ASTI out to dry for standing up for what's right.

This government is an utter joke. A general election can't come soon enough.

I actually emailed RQ's office earlier in the week asking about this.
As a parent I pay out of my own pocket each year to contribute towards the cost of photocopying in my child's school.
I am still awaiting his response (got one reply to say it was being looked into)...... I won't hold my breath

TheDriver

he is opening an awful can of worms and the "template" we received this week is terrible and so pointed. It seems to be all about the parents who pay for it but no say to the teachers who have to work with students wearing mismatched uniforms/fashion shows or potential bullying based on unlevel playing field he wants to introduce.

whiteandlight

Have you a copy of the template The Driver? I'd love a look

TheDriver

Not to hand but its in a circular so assume its on DESk website (on mobile site so hard to look up)

evolving_doors

Here's the link if you feel like reading the preamble ..Scroll down the page for the pdf to download


Here's a badly cut and paste job if yissr on a mobile

(Where the answer is Yes or No, please tick the check-box beside your chosen answer).
Part 1: Whether or not a school should have a uniform
Q1. Do you want a school uniform for this school? Yes No
If yes, please continue to Part 2
If no, no further response is required

Part 2: Choices that could impact on the level of expense
Q2. Would you like the school to have a uniform for which the items of clothing or footwear could be bought in different
shops or department stores? Yes No

Q3. Where any of the following are relevant to your school, please express a preference;
(a) Generic clothing or footwear: Yes No
(Generic means items that are in colours and styles that are readily available in different shops and department stores).
(b) Bespoke items: Yes No
(Bespoke items means items of clothing that are in less common colours/mix of colours, design, pattern, or style that is unique
to the school and where the number of suppliers are limited, often to one supplier only. This includes where crests are a feature
or the school name is printed on items).
(c) Crests: Yes No
And, if yes, should it be;
Iron-on: Yes No
Sew-on: Yes No
(d) Branded or designer sportswear: Yes No
(e) Branded or designer footwear (including sports
footwear)
Yes No
Part 3: School blazers

Q4. Would you like the school to have (select one)?
No blazer Blazer only Blazer and jumper


Part 4: Relevance
Do you think this is all a waste of time and their are more important issues in education at the moment?

Yes No


Ok I added part 4 in myself, I couldn;t resist:)

teacherhead

Armelodie wrote: »

Here's the link if you feel like reading the preamble ..Scroll down the page for the pdf to download


Here's a badly cut and paste job if yissr on a mobile

(Where the answer is Yes or No, please tick the check-box beside your chosen answer).
Part 1: Whether or not a school should have a uniform
Q1. Do you want a school uniform for this school? Yes No
If yes, please continue to Part 2
If no, no further response is required

Part 2: Choices that could impact on the level of expense
Q2. Would you like the school to have a uniform for which the items of clothing or footwear could be bought in different
shops or department stores? Yes No

Q3. Where any of the following are relevant to your school, please express a preference;
(a) Generic clothing or footwear: Yes No
(Generic means items that are in colours and styles that are readily available in different shops and department stores).
(b) Bespoke items: Yes No
(Bespoke items means items of clothing that are in less common colours/mix of colours, design, pattern, or style that is unique
to the school and where the number of suppliers are limited, often to one supplier only. This includes where crests are a feature
or the school name is printed on items).
(c) Crests: Yes No
And, if yes, should it be;
Iron-on: Yes No
Sew-on: Yes No
(d) Branded or designer sportswear: Yes No
(e) Branded or designer footwear (including sports
footwear)
Yes No
Part 3: School blazers

Q4. Would you like the school to have (select one)?
No blazer Blazer only Blazer and jumper


Part 4: Relevance
Do you think this is all a waste of time and their are more important issues in education at the moment?

Yes No


Ok I added part 4 in myself, I couldn;t resist:)

and yet its the most relevant question there is!