Starting Out Farming By Leasing Commonage

mikefoxo

I was thinking of this as an option to starting farming. Lease for a few years, and if all goes well try to buy a share of the commonage. My father has a small bit of land but I have none, nor a herd no. What are peoples opinions?

mikefoxo

Bump

Conmaicne Mara

Will it pay you?

kerryjack

You are not giving us much info here to be able to give an option like what size is commonage what rent and what you thinking of putting on it.

mikefoxo

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Will it pay you?

That's the first question I always ask myself. To be honest I don't know, there are too many variables because I'm not familiar with this type of farming.

It's about 600 acres in size, there are probably about 20 people with a right to it but only about half a dozen of these have stock on it, and only in small numbers. I had been thinking of some type of sheep (probably not Blackface as I hear they have fallen a lot in money). Possibly a mountain breed with maybe a Lleyn ram?

Just recently however I thought about Dexter cattle. There was a bit on Countryfile about them down in Kerry. I read some posts on Boards and they seem to have a market with a fixed price from the factorys that buy them.

The cost of leasing I have no idea. Surely if you just rent one acre you then have access to the whole commonage?

That's my idea anyway. To me it seems to be a low cost option to entering farming (bar stock, jeep and trailer).

All constructive criticism is greatly appreciated

Conmaicne Mara

mikefoxo wrote: »

That's the first question I always ask myself. To be honest I don't know, there are too many variables because I'm not familiar with this type of farming.

It's about 600 acres in size, there are probably about 20 people with a right to it but only about half a dozen of these have stock on it, and only in small numbers. I had been thinking of some type of sheep (probably not Blackface as I hear they have fallen a lot in money). Possibly a mountain breed with maybe a Lleyn ram?

Just recently however I thought about Dexter cattle. There was a bit on Countryfile about them down in Kerry. I read some posts on Boards and they seem to have a market with a fixed price from the factorys that buy them.

The cost of leasing I have no idea. Surely if you just rent one acre you then have access to the whole commonage?

That's my idea anyway. To me it seems to be a low cost option to entering farming (bar stock, jeep and trailer).

All constructive criticism is greatly appreciated

A few problems, from my point of view.

Have you any fenced land of your own, I might be wrong but I think you will need to lease or own some as well as the commonage, I believe you need some shape of a shed in case of a sick animal.

Commonages I know of don't work that way, they have "shares" denominated by a fractional amount of the commonage, some of mine are 1/6th, 1/12th/, 1/23rd etc. So you would be renting a "share" presumably rather than saying you want X number of acres. Some may be logsplit, meaning a share holder can point to a parcel and say that's mine and fence it, a lot won't be so it's proper common grazing.

Is there a framework plan attached to the commonage? Find out if you don't know, it's important. These are currently under review and causing umpteen problems. The Department want to control both undergrazing and over grazing. So on some (I am not sure if they will do all) commonages they will put a maximum number of sheep and minimum number of sheep. It is expected to be sorted before SFP payment time next year - but don't bet the farm on that, I see large problems ahead.

As someone kindly pointed out to me there is a sort of a guide at the moment that's not agreed between farmers and the Dept, but the Dept are working to these numbers below: (Click on Commonage Grazing Plans)

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmerschemespayments/ruralenvironmentprotectionschemereps/repsandaeosschemes/agri-environmentoptionsschemeaeos/

You haven't asked, but look into DAS, SFP, and Agri Environmental plans (the last will only be available after 2015).

Depending on your age and the availability of a course handy to you it might be worth your while doing a Green Cert. You might be able to get a 25% top up on SFP, and tax benefits on land purchases depending on age and dates - seek advice. If you're in Galway or Mayo I can PM you three good advisor names.

Blackface, depends on what you do with them. Your other hill option is Cheviot. They haven't been great this year. I don't think having them on commonage 100% of the time is a runner TBH, if that's what you're intending. I don't know of anyone here who does it. The more lowland you have access to the better lamb you'll have at the end of it. I see my hill as a pressure release valve, when my lowland has taken enough abuse from the sheep. Mine are on the hill most of the year save for tipping and pre/post lambing. You'll have better wether/ram lambs off lowland. It'll also give you the option of using different breeds, like mule breeding.

I've looked into Dexters and gone off them in a big way. From what little I know you would need to have a cast iron guaranteed market. A lot tried and gave up on box schemes, maybe a butcher might take you on if you found the right ones. The ones making Dexters into burgers sold their van I think, so not sure how they're getting on now. Crossgar meats up north used to pay U grade price on the day for the Dexter carcass in KG, then a £0.45p bonus per lbs. I believe I saw a Dexter herd with a similar name for sale on Donedeal, might be wrong, contact them to find out before you buy into anything. Cull value is nil, or close to it.

There is a lot of difficulty involved with commonage. My advice to you is to seek proper impartial advice. Talk to farmers in the area and find out the name or names of good advisors, farmers love a good bitch so they'll tell you of the bad ones no problem. It's a complex area, good advice is worth it's weight in gold.



The above is just my opinion, it's worth exactly as much as you paid me for it.

mikefoxo

Thank you for being frank CM. I never thought this idea would be an easy one, and you've certainly given a lot of food for thought.

monseiur

Re. Commonage : Talk to one of the 14 shareholders who have no stock, perhaps one would sell his share at a reasonable price, or lease long term - they may also have entitlements that they may sell.
Regarding cattle, forget Dexter, get yourself a few Aberdeen Angus or Canadian Angus, they are the all black polled cattle and will live on marginal land and will outwinter with a little feeding hay and or silage.
You could cross them with a Hereford bull to get black or red white head offspring........any profit from this kind of farming will be from the cheque in the post !
If you go the sheep direction I would suggest Scottish Blackface, Lanark or Perth/ Mayo breed Buy lambs or hoggets from one of the commonge shareholders to ensure a good settlement pattern. If you buy in ewes some of all may find their own way home !