RCD tripping for iron, laptop

ironwalk

Hi. Any advice appreciated please.
10 y.o. house. About 2 months ago the iron tripped the kitchen sockets from one particular socket. Working fine elsewhere, so just left that one socket as a dud.

In the last few days, laptop has tripped all the sockets in the house, regardless of where plugged in. New charger ordered.:-(

This morning, iron is now tripping all the sockets suddenly...no reason (ironed short, half way through pants...gone). Kettle works fine on the same socket.

I'm presuming it's a qualified electrician job in-house, but just want to be sure am I missing something obvious? Could iron and laptop be both (suddenly) faulty?

Thanks for any pointers.
ironwalk

ptogher14

If both laptop and iron are both consistently tripping the RCD regardless of the socket it's plugged into I'd say it's your laptop and iron that's the problem

hufpc8w3adnk65

Yup you'll need REC for this with the correct test instruments.

ironwalk

Thanks.

Am confused....are you saying the opposite?

If it's the house electrics, wouldn't the kettle/ microwave trip them too?

chrismon

Id think the iron and laptop charger are at fault here.
You won't know until you get it checked by an electrician.

ptogher14

Yes more than likely if it was the wiring other appliances would trip the RCD.

Maybe bring the iron and laptop to a friend's house and test them

ironwalk

Thanks.

Am confused....are you saying the opposite?

If it's the house electrics, wouldn't the kettle/ microwave trip them too?

ironwalk

Thanks all. Very helpful.
I'll test them over weekend. I'll come back if it's obviously not a device problem.

Bruthal

ptogher14 wrote: »

If both laptop and iron are both consistently tripping the RCD regardless of the socket it's plugged into I'd say it's your laptop and iron that's the problem

I would think the laptop has no earth connection to its switching adaptor/transformer. So its likely, or at least possibly anyway, the problem lies with the installation. Possibly the neutral-earth fault scenario again.

You never know though.

ptogher14

Bruthal wrote: »

I would think the laptop has no earth connection to its switching adaptor/transformer. So its likely, or at least possibly anyway, the problem lies with the installation. Possibly the neutral-earth fault scenario again.

You never know though.

But a laptop charger is usually double isolated

Bruthal

ptogher14 wrote: »

But a laptop charger is usually double isolated

Double insulated? Yea, that`s the point i`m making. Its an interesting one to see how it will be tripping an RCD with no earth connection to it.

ptogher14

A fault on the primary side maybe

Bruthal

ptogher14 wrote: »

A fault on the primary side maybe

They are usually switching mode transformers rather than windings.

But even if it was a wire wound transformer, Id say it would be a curious one if a fault on it tripped an RCD, when there is no earth connection to the adaptor/transformer for any fault current to cause an imbalance in L/N current.

Its a curious one anyway, if them two items only, are tripping the RCD. Possibly, the high loading of the iron, and the operation of the switching mode laptop transformer, are tripping the RCD through an intermittent neutral-earth fault within the installation.

Or perhaps there is indeed a problem with them 2 items. Id just say it would be unusual for a double insulated, non earthed item to cause trips on an RCD.

ironwalk

Gentlemen..thanks for the technical discussion-way over my head

Brought laptop to a friend's house...charged away lovely. Used it all evening without a hitch.

What's the advice on what to do now?

ptogher14

ironwalk wrote: »

Gentlemen..thanks for the technical discussion-way over my head

Brought laptop to a friend's house...charged away lovely. Used it all evening without a hitch.

What's the advice on what to do now?

Time to call an electrician:-D

2011

ironwalk wrote: »

Gentlemen..thanks for the technical discussion-way over my head

I will summarise: I am agreement with Bruthal, the problem is the wiring in your home not the laptop.

What's the advice on what to do now?

As ptogher14 said, call an electrician.
Should be a simple fix for a sparks.

marathont

Hi

I had a problem with the RCD tripping seemingly randomly. Often happened when someone plugged something in, any socket. didnt happen all the time only now and then.

I replaced the RCD and never had any more problems.

ironwalk

Thanks for advice on here. Had the electrician out....he was stumped but seems to think my iron is the source of the problem not the house wiring.
I'm not sure myself if we've solved the problem but I think it's wait and see if things start tripping again.
Thanks for the advice.

2011

ironwalk wrote: »

Thanks for advice on here. Had the electrician out....he was stumped but seems to think my iron is the source of the problem not the house wiring.

I would be surprised, time will tell

2011

marathont wrote: »

I had a problem with the RCD tripping seemingly randomly. Often happened when someone plugged something in, any socket. didnt happen all the time only now and then.

I replaced the RCD and never had any more problems.

Occasionally RCD's have been know to fail (sometimes they are over sensitive).

ironwalk

Ok. If there was a grrrrr emoticon, I'd have it here.

Interesting last comment by 2011 re RCD being sensitive, as I was comparing it to a stroppy teenager this morning.
No problem all week. New iron. Laptop charging fine.
This morning I turned on laptop ....have work to do for Monday morning.

Tripped immediately. Now phone charger is tripping it too....all while kettle is happily boiling on same circuit.

Do electricians work Saturdays....need to get work done for client.

hufpc8w3adnk65

ironwalk wrote: »

Ok. If there was a grrrrr emoticon, I'd have it here.

Interesting last comment by 2011 re RCD being sensitive, as I was comparing it to a stroppy teenager this morning.
No problem all week. New iron. Laptop charging fine.
This morning I turned on laptop ....have work to do for Monday morning.

Tripped immediately. Now phone charger is tripping it too....all while kettle is happily boiling on same circuit.

Do electricians work Saturdays....need to get work done for client.

Where in Ireland are you?

ironwalk

Waterford

hufpc8w3adnk65

ironwalk wrote: »

Waterford

Sorry i dunno anyone out that way.

http://www.reci.ie/ConsumerServices/FindanElectrician.aspx

had a quick look here and theres 28 REC in Waterford who do domestic works so SURELY one of those can sort it out today. Even if its just too tide you over till Monday and rectfy it then!

Bruthal

ironwalk wrote: »

Ok. If there was a grrrrr emoticon, I'd have it here.

Interesting last comment by 2011 re RCD being sensitive, as I was comparing it to a stroppy teenager this morning.
No problem all week. New iron. Laptop charging fine.
This morning I turned on laptop ....have work to do for Monday morning.

Tripped immediately. Now phone charger is tripping it too....all while kettle is happily boiling on same circuit.

Do electricians work Saturdays....need to get work done for client.

Did it trip immediately you actually switched laptop on, or when you plugged it into the wall socket? Did you notice the trip switch tripping, or only notice it because laptop didnt start?

tomdempsey200

you should have had some definite answers after the electrician called..

you should know if there was a earth fault in the iron (not hard to check)

and if the rcd is operating correctly and if there's faults showing in the rcd protected circuits

it could happen then that you have you some intermittent problem at a socket wiring

ironwalk

Thanks mrmac, bruthal & tomdempsey.

Have an electrician who says he'll call later. On phone, he says he should be able to work something over weekend to keep me going (so I can work done for Mon morning client at least).

I plugged laptop into socket, turned socket on, switched laptop on. 15 seconds later desk lamp beside laptop went off so I knew RCD had gone.

I've replaced the iron, after advice from last week's electrician.
If it was a socket problem, would that cause RCDs to trip, even when laptop plugged in on a different circuit?

tomdempsey200

sounds like you're back to square 1 ...the iron should been tested and a fault showing



you'll have to test rcd and circuits for faults anyhow

Bruthal

ironwalk wrote: »

Thanks mrmac, bruthal & tomdempsey.

Have an electrician who says he'll call later. On phone, he says he should be able to work something over weekend to keep me going (so I can work done for Mon morning client at least).

I plugged laptop into socket, turned socket on, switched laptop on. 15 seconds later desk lamp beside laptop went off so I knew RCD had gone.

I've replaced the iron, after advice from last week's electrician.
If it was a socket problem, would that cause RCDs to trip, even when laptop plugged in on a different circuit?

Iron should have been tested, rather than guessed at.

If you have an immersion, switch it off at its immersion switch, and see if problem persists.

For an electrician, RCD needs to be tested. If ok, a neutral to earth test on the RCD neutral bar. If it shows a fault, unplug everything, switch immersion off. Test again. If still showing a fault, then all neutrals removed from RCD neutral bar and tested individually to earth. If a neutral shows a problem, identify circuit and locate problem by splitting the circuit and isolating sections of it and testing.

Neutral to earth faults can trip RCD from items on a different circuit, but in this case, when the RCD trips, it wont be known which circuit, if any, has the problem.

If it was a Live to earth fault, it would trip without anything plugged in. These things are usually neutral to earth faults.

Another thing an electrician could try, is fitting a second RCD, and splitting the socket circuits over the existing and new one. That might get closer to reducing the circuits that need to be checked, or it may stop tripping problems either.

tomdempsey200

and how big is the installation(house) btw?

zom

Just if I can have some similar question - room of 10 old PC's (office). RCD tripping every first working day after weekend or longer break. I have to disconnect half of machines and let another half work for few hours - then I can connect the others and everything works fine. I checked RCD, cables, wiring - no fix. I am about to check all power supplies (PCs and screens) but maybe someone have better idea?

tomdempsey200

zom wrote: »

Just if I can have some similar question - room of 10 old PC's (office). RCD tripping every first working day after weekend or longer break. I have to disconnect half of machines and let another half work for few hours - then I can connect the others and everything works fine. I checked RCD, cables, wiring - no fix. I am about to check all power supplies (PCs and screens) but maybe someone have better idea?

too many pc's on rcd
recommended is about 4-6
cumulative leakage

zom

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

too many pc's on rcd
recommended is about 4-6
cumulative leakage

It would be easy if they trip RCD all the time but it only happen after few days of no use. I forgot to mention - they trip it while not working - just connected to mains. I have to physically disconnect half of them and after few hours connect back.
I suspect some damp somewhere but not sure in PCs or in power wiring (walls)? Any thoughts?

tomdempsey200

test rcd and final circuit
if nothing shows
balance pc's over 2 rcd/rcbo

you can test all the iec leads for damp by leaving them plugged in to wall and disconnected from pc/monitor while testing circuit

can't think of much else unless you've narrowed it down to a faulty pc


it might be worth replacing rcd if it's old
and is there anything else on circuit except office?

2011

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

too many pc's on rcd
recommended is about 4-6
cumulative leakage

Agreed, a few circuits fed by RCBOs would be preferable.

Surge protection devices have also been known to contribute to this problem.

There is some interesting suggestions made by ABB here:

http://www05.abb.com/global/scot/scot209.nsf/veritydisplay/7115a45a1e2da408c1256cbc0054f193/$file/2csc421002b0201.pdf

From page 3:
To obtain continuity of service for priority circuits and, at the same time, protect the loads and installations from transient overvoltage peaks, we recommend combining the AP range of RCCBs and RCD blocks with OVR surge protective devices (SPD)."


It should also be noted that it is permitted to install IT equipment (such as PCs) from non standard type sockets fed from circuits that do not have RCD protection. Here is an example of a non standart socket with a "T" section earth pin. Needless to say that other standad type general services/cleaners sockets with RCD/RCBO should also be provided if this option is used.

tomdempsey200

yes, a few good points there

the SPDs can be a problem with tripping might be worth testing without them


it is permissible to omit rcd if sockets are not for general use



i'm not sure that the AP rcds are specifically designed for this issue although simply replacing the rcd may cure it


prob just simply splitting the pcs will cure it...

SpaceTime

Some places actually use RCD-sockets like you'll see them in M&S and on Irish Rail trains quite a lot.

This still provides you with RCD coverage, but won't trip the whole circuit, just that one local socket.

I think kitchen and utility room circuits should be on RCBOs at least.

Kettles, irons, coffee machines, dishwashers and occasionally laundry appliances are the most likely RCD-tripping culprits due to their relationship with water!

spankmemunkey

I bet i know whats happening here!

Your pulling the sockets when you pull the plug on the Iron or the Charger for laptop. The Microwave i bet never gets unplugged and one of the connections to the rear of the socket is loose. Did the electrician check all your sockets by removing them and checking that all connections are secure at the back? when you push and pull plugs in and out they can loosen connections at the back of the socket, it could be the socket needing replacing too it may be faulty.

stefan idiot jones

2011 wrote: »

Occasionally RCD's have been know to fail (sometimes they are over sensitive).

Correct. I am a Maintenance Officer in an Aged Care Residence and we have hundreds of RCDs.

I have to deal with issues like this daily.
I deal with our electrician about these such matters and you're right. When a RCD trips, or continually trips it 'wears out' and becomes too sensative.

We have had to replace a few RCDs as for example, an old bainmarie used to constantly trip has been replaced with a new one but still trips the circuit. The new piece of equipment is perfect and not overloading the circuit but the RCD is defective and had to be changed.