My first beer festival

ch750536

Was thinking of holding a beer (& wine) festival in Abbeyfeale to tie in with the fleadh next year. I was a Camra supporter for years in the UK. Anyone have any advice \ reasons not to?

I know a few home brewers, was not a money making venture & am happy to break even. More for fun than anything else.

Was thinking maybe 20 brewers, expect 200 people.

BeerNut

Just remember that if you're giving out homebrew no money is allowed to change hands at any point: no fee to get in, no charge for beers. Once there's money involved, even if you make a loss, you're effectively selling unexcised alcohol, which is illegal.

ch750536

I wasn't going to sell anything, I was simply to provide the market. Surely brewers are able to turn up to licenced premises and sell their beer direct to the public?

Bigcheeze

ch750536 wrote: »

I wasn't going to sell anything, I was simply to provide the market. Surely brewers are able to turn up to licenced premises and sell their beer direct to the public?

No they can't as no excise has been paid on the alcohol and there is no mechanism for home brewers to pay it.

Plus no licensee is going to allow you jeopardize his licence by selling alcohol illegally.

BeerNut

ch750536 wrote: »

Surely brewers are able to turn up to licenced premises and sell their beer direct to the public?

I wish! No, they would need to have a beer manufacturer's licence for that, ie be a commercial brewery.

In Denmark anyone can make and sell beer anywhere, and as long as you settle up with the taxman everyone's happy. That's why Denmark has an amazing diverse beer scene and we don't.

Antisocialiser

Just a thought; i've been at festivals before where you queue and pay for a token and then exchange that token for a beer. Technically speaking you don't exchange any money for alcohol directly, is this system to get around the lack of license?

If so, maybe it's something you could use at the beer festival?

ch750536

Thanks for the info guys. So you have to have a manufacturer's licence before you can sell.

So, next question...

If I have only people with a manufacturers licence then do they need to sell in licenced premises?

What if they gave the beer away for free but you have to buy a glass (€20 )
If those with a licence sell then can those without a licence give away?

I'd love to do this and will find a way no matter what. I have the details of 60 breweries in Ireland (dont know if they have a manufacturers licence) and am sure I can make the event worthy for them.

sharingan

It would probably work as well, as say, selling very expensive bic biros on ebay, with a couple of cases of home brewed beer thrown in for free.

The courts can be very severe in their interpretation of illegal alcohol sales.

IIRC a house party which had a large attendance, operated a cash box where the attendees could chip in towards the group buy of beer. A serving counter was operated. It was raided, and though it was clearly not for profit (cash box had around ~€100 in it), it was interpreted as a Sibin, and everyone involved got busted.

EDIT: this comment was addressed towards the sale-of-token idea, not the followup post about licensed premises.

sharingan

ch750536 wrote: »

If I have only people with a manufacturers licence then do they need to sell in licenced premises?

Examine what happens at music festivals, or any event where alcohol is served from a temporary structure.

My gut feeling is that there is some kind of temporary *premises* license system, that would cover you for a festival.

I'd love to do this and will find a way no matter what. I have the details of 60 breweries in Ireland (dont know if they have a manufacturers licence) and am sure I can make the event worthy for them.

Um yes, they *do* have a license. You could talk to some of them. Many of the Irish microbreweries have had a presence at festivals, craft beer festivals, and home brew festivals. They might know more details that could steer you in the right direction.

Also, wasn't there a home brew festival last month? I dont have all the details, but its precisely what you are trying to achieve, and they would have fulfilled a list of legal requirements that you would need to achieve also.

ch750536

I'd love there to be a home brew section for fans of beer to sample anyones beer. If that has to be given away then so be it. Sure something can be worked out.

For the craft brewers there seems to be no reason for them not to sell as long as they have a manufacturers licence and the site is licenced (some form).

I will have a chat with a few venues and see what they have to say but any more help is very welcome & thanks for all the help so far.

Valentine1

sharingan wrote: »

Examine what happens at music festivals, or any event where alcohol is served from a temporary structure.

My gut feeling is that there is some kind of temporary *premises* license system, that would cover you for a festival.



Also, wasn't there a home brew festival last month? I dont have all the details, but its precisely what you are trying to achieve, and they would have fulfilled a list of legal requirements that you would need to achieve also.

Festivals are required to get temporary licences which are awarded by the courts.

There was a craft beer festival last month which was very successful and used the token system although given all the breweries were licensed I imagine this was more to simplify point of Sale than get around any legals.

ch750536 wrote: »

I'd love there to be a home brew section for fans of beer to sample anyones beer. If that has to be given away then so be it. Sure something can be worked out.

For the craft brewers there seems to be no reason for them not to sell as long as they have a manufacturers licence and the site is licenced (some form).

I will have a chat with a few venues and see what they have to say but any more help is very welcome & thanks for all the help so far.

there used to be a home brew Competition in Dublin, it may even still be running. I think everyone used to just go and sample everyone eles' beers. no money changed hands and it was a purely enthusiast thing.

BeerNut

Antisocialiser wrote: »

i've been at festivals before where you queue and pay for a token and then exchange that token for a beer. Technically speaking you don't exchange any money for alcohol directly, is this system to get around the lack of license?

No, because indirectly still counts. The taxman isn't stupid.

ch750536 wrote: »

If I have only people with a manufacturers licence then do they need to sell in licenced premises?

Yes. A license is required to sell alcohol.

ch750536 wrote: »

What if they gave the beer away for free but you have to buy a glass (€20 )

No. If money is involved anywhere, licensing and duty are required.

ch750536 wrote: »

If those with a licence sell then can those without a licence give away?

Yes. I can buy a beer and give it to you, no problem.

sharingan wrote: »

It would probably work as well, as say, selling very expensive bic biros on ebay, with a couple of cases of home brewed beer thrown in for free.

It might work, but it'd be illegal and you'd be in trouble if caught.

sharingan wrote: »

My gut feeling is that there is some kind of temporary *premises* license system, that would cover you for a festival.

My experience is that there isn't. A licence is extended from an existing one. For instance, the RDS uses an extended licence from Madigan's across the street. Bloom in the Park extends its licence from the Porterhouse.

sharingan wrote: »

Also, wasn't there a home brew festival last month?

Free in, free beer, and also covred by a pub licence, so above board.

ch750536 wrote: »

For the craft brewers there seems to be no reason for them not to sell as long as they have a manufacturers licence and the site is licenced (some form).

That's pretty much how the likes of the Franciscan Well Easterfest and Brewers on the Bay work.

Valentine1 wrote: »

I imagine this was more to simplify point of Sale than get around any legals.

It's more to guarantee that the venue gets its share of the take.

Valentine1 wrote: »

there used to be a home brew Competition in Dublin, it may even still be running. I think everyone used to just go and sample everyone eles' beers. no money changed hands and it was a purely enthusiast thing.

There are loads. If anyone knows of any happening from other Irish homebrew sites, do post the details here.

ch750536

Many thanks all. I've had initial chats with 2 licenced locations and they are both in in principle.

We'll be sending a letter out to the mailing list end of this week with an outline of what we're doing.

Tube

I'm the main organiser of the homebrew festival which was run on the 26th of October.

Just to set the record straight:
You can charge admission, for food, for glasses. But as long as the beer itself is totally free ("not for consideration") and there are no conditions then there are no legal issues. i.e. you cannot make the purchase of anything a requirement to be given beer, as then it's not free. You can't make people have to buy a glass, a box of biros, tokens, etc. If someone looks to you for a free beer, you give it to them a free beer without question.

We didn't charge admission for logistics reasons this time around. We probably will next time. Admission is not a requirement to be given free beer, so it doesn't count.

Giving away homebrew for free does not have to be done on a licensed premises. It can be done anywhere, as long as it is to family and/or guests of the brewer. We would have rented a hall if we hadn't be offered a pub.

If you plan to give away your beer or wine regularly you do technically become a food producer in the eyes of the law and you have to register with the HSE. That's a whole other can of worms though.

Tube

Valentine1 wrote: »

there used to be a home brew Competition in Dublin, it may even still be running.

We are running the national competition, have just concluded a summer beer competition, and my local club is running a competition limited to 50 beers in Lucan shortly. Generally we run them to BJCP standards, and currently we have 20 members in training to become certified beer judges.

Valentine1

Tube wrote: »

We are running the national competition, have just concluded a summer beer competition, and my local club is running a competition limited to 50 beers in Lucan shortly. Generally we run them to BJCP standards, and currently we have 20 members in training to become certified beer judges.

Any links or further information?

ch750536

Letter sent to 60 breweries.

Dear Sir/Madam,

A group of enthusiasts have decided to hold a beer, wine & cider festival in our hometown of Abbeyfeale some time in May 2014. We’re doing this as we think the lack of awareness of home grown produce stifles the market for producers such as yourselves and that we can all benefit from a more open marketplace.

Although we have attended many festivals in the past we didn’t want to make assumptions about the best approach for the future. To this end we would like to call you at some point over the coming weeks to find out what you think would be the best way to run, organise & market such an event, after all, the expertise is in the hands of the producers.

We are not looking for financial gain from the event in 2014, though we can’t rule this out in future. For now we are looking to host an event that can be of benefit to all involved.

We look forward to our discussions with you. In the meantime, if you wish to send an email with your contact details or an outline of what you think would help the event please send to abbeyfealebeerfestival@gmail.com

Kind Regards,

ch750536

Location secured, email sent out this morning:

Dear All,

Thank you for the generous feedback over the last few month, it has helped us to clarify the proposal for our beer, wine & cider festival. As things are approaching completion we would like to involve you in our final proposal.

When:
There is a gathering festival week 16th - 20th July in Abbeyfeale which will bring in a large number of tourists. The event last year was a great success. Our event is on Sunday 20th from 2pm to 8pm.

Where:
We have secured the local GAA hall (fr. Caseys). It is a large sports hall with good facilities and a full license.

How:
To be a part of the event please email me back letting me know which option suits you best.

All stands must be manned for the duration of the event.

Option 1 - I just want to give my beer away (Home Brewers)
If you simply want a stand to give your beer away then we will have a stand 2m * 1m for you to display your products. You will be entered into the Best Home Brew Competition!

Option 2 - I want to sell my product.
If you are looking to sell your product and you have a licence to sell then you may do so. Please let me know your space requirements.

Option 3 - I want to be a product partner.
This is the same as option 2 but in addition we are looking for producers to partner with a chosen local publican to cement a better long term relationship. This means that the publican will promote your products in the pub over the following weeks after reaching an agreement between yourselves. The publican will be at the show with you on your stand introducing you to the locals. You will also have an editorial to promote the event.
We are running an 'Ale Trail' through the town during the Gathering Festival. Breweries who take Option 3 will be promoted on the 'Ale Trail'.

As an addition we will also have optional 2 minute spots on the day where you can address the entire hall with your sales pitch for your product.

Cost:
There will be no cost - there is simply a €50, €75 or €100 deposit (payable before May/2014) which is returned to you if you arrive before 11am on the day.

Marketing:
Local media - We have editorial space in the local news promoting specific producers and their chosen publican partner. These will run 1 per week in the month before the event.
Piggy back the gathering - There is a substantial budget for marketing the gathering event, we would be the headline event for the final day of the festival.
Website - We already have a website ready to go promoting the event. Individual producers are invited to contribute in whatever way they wish (branding, photos, product blogs etc). This website will be a part of all marketing activities.
Local businesses. As this involves the publicans we expect them to play their part in promoting the event over the coming months.

We look forward to working with you,
Kind Regards,
Ali & Jason

Tube

GAA clubs are usually licensed as private members clubs, as opposed to having ordinary 7-day licences.

ch750536

Tube wrote: »

GAA clubs are usually licensed as private members clubs, as opposed to having ordinary 7-day licences.

Its fine, they have the licence & extension sorted.