NCT - How could they miss this?

goz83

Have a 97 FTO in for the NCT this morning. This has been the 3rd time the car has been through an NCT with me (not including any re-tests). So it fails due to a side light bulb not working and the lambda needing replacing (emissions on high idle). That's all fine and I will get that sorted, but how on earth did they miss the fact that there was a digit missing from their records and the logbook relating to the chassis number? Is this not the first thing they are to check? It is missing the number "0" after the DE3A stamp. This has been recorded on the previous NCT sheets, so why are they only spotting it now? More respect lost for this joke of a system. They also missed that one of the reverse bulbs was blown.

My sister was failed a couple of weeks ago for a frayed rear seat belt and side repeaters being too dim on her Santa-Fe. I changed the seatbelt for her and said the lights were fine. They had not been tinted and remained factory spec. She went back in for the visual the other day and the guy checked the seat belt and when checking the repeaters, my sister said the same tester said "That's much brighter". She told him they hadn't been touched and the guy just shrugged and walked away. Now I know bulbs aren't exactly expensive, but it would have cost her about a tenner to get them changed, when it was completely unnecessary. The very same thing happened me with my previous car. Side repeaters and tail lights were said to be too dim, which was the only fail. My mechanic at the time said to bring it back up as it was and it passed :eek:

I said nothing, just in case the guy changed his mind, but I wouldn't let it go again.

Toyotafanboi

as in your chassis number is DE3A00000123456 and they have DE3A0000123456? maybe they just applied common sense?

are you complaining because they failed you or didn't fail you? i don't really see the problem.

djimi

My car went through something like six tests before they thought to mention that the font on my license plates is illegal (its not even that subtle in fairness; it not massively off but it doesnt look legal even to me). I guess it depends on the tester and how thorough they are.

Guy:Incognito

Either he applied common sense and thought one digit is just a mistake or he only skimmed over the numbers and once they looked similar figured all was ok.

Was there not a thread recently where someone was giving out that they failed because the vin was wrong by one digit?
Damned if you do.......

djimi

Given the number of cars they look at each day Id say its entirely possible that they just skimmed over it and didnt notice as they looked similar...

goz83

If they just skim over the numbers then it leaves the system open to abuse. I'm not annoyed about it failing on this. I am annoyed that it has not been spotted in all the times the car has been through the nct. What really annoyed me was the testers attitude when I asked how it could be missed all the previous times. He just said, "it was noticed on this test". A simple "human error, sometimes these things are missed when only a digit is missing" might have gone down better. It's this and plenty of other things I have experienced over the years that p155es me off when it comes to the nct. I'm all for car testing and safety, but if they are missing things like this and failing on things that they then pass without any changes being made, then we really need to question the system and ask for changes. Light levels should be machine tested, because that fail is all too common. Don't get me started on tinted sun visors! Last years issue.

biko

About the reverse lamp broken, some cars only have one lamp so the tester might have just missed that it's two on your car, or just let it slide.
Only the tester knows for sure.
Without seeing the DE3A numbers it's kinda hard to say how obvious it is but again, maybe the tester just let it slide too.

Failing side light for being too dim sounds a bit suss alright unless condensation or something was seen during test.

JohnBoy26

goz83 wrote: »

If they just skim over the numbers then it leaves the system open to abuse. I'm not annoyed about it failing on this. I am annoyed that it has not been spotted in all the times the car has been through the nct. What really annoyed me was the testers attitude when I asked how it could be missed all the previous times. He just said, "it was noticed on this test". A simple "human error, sometimes these things are missed when only a digit is missing" might have gone down better. It's this and plenty of other things I have experienced over the years that p155es me off when it comes to the nct. I'm all for car testing and safety, but if they are missing things like this and failing on things that they then pass without any changes being made, then we really need to question the system and ask for changes. Light levels should be machine tested, because that fail is all too common. Don't get me started on tinted sun visors! Last years issue.

I've always adjusted mine by parking the car by a wall at night and going by how level they are on that. I have yet to fail an Nct because of mis aligned lights.

Also the tester was correct it was a simple human error. A missing digit among multiple digits can be hard to spot.

dobsdave

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I've always adjusted mine by parking the car by a wall at night and going by how level they are on that. I have yet to fail an Nct because of mis aligned lights.
......

I think its brightness as opposed to 'levels'/alignment being talked about here.

JohnBoy26

dobsdave wrote: »

I think its brightness as opposed to 'levels'/alignment being talked about here.

I don't think the part I was replying to was about brightness, Or did I pick it up wrong?

FR85

My Altea failed for having only one fog light working.....the car only has one, the other side is the reverse light, he never sussed that. I got that quashed on the spot with a manager.

The girlfriends sister's MG-TF failed because the guy said he couldn't find a chassis number anywhere on it, I pointed both of them out in a matter of seconds. The dope didn't know where the bonnet release was so he never checked, it's mid engined so he never looked under the front. He actually refused to test it.

A friends 323 failed because he couldn't release the fuel filler cap, he didn't pull the lever hard enough, she opened it in the carpark and called him, he wouldn't entertain her at all.

A friends 307 failed for having a chip in the windscreen, that chip had been there since he bought it and had done two ntc's.

It boils down to who you get, some can be good and check things, other can be pricks and not bother.

Chris_Heilong

I put my car trough its first NCT, things they missed:)
all tyres except 1 had no 'E' mark, the one with an 'E' mark was the only one they asked me to change, also a fog light was out but they didnt test them.

In regards to the Number being missing, how are you going to rectify this, I heard it can be major hassle.

JohnBoy26

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I put my car trough its first NCT, things they missed:)
all tyres except 1 had no 'E' mark, the one with an 'E' mark was the only one they asked me to change, also a fog light was out but they didnt test them.

In regards to the Number being missing, how are you going to rectify this, I heard it can be major hassle.

Are you sure the E marks aren't on the other side of the tyres?

mgbgt1978

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I don't think the part I was replying to was about brightness, Or did I pick it up wrong?

The Op was referring to the brightness (or lack of) the indicator repeater lights.
Where he mentioned 'light levels should be machine tested' I'd say he was talking about a machine that tests the intensity of the light....rather than an individual's opinion on how bright they are.

JohnBoy26

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

The Op was referring to the brightness (or lack of) the indicator repeater lights.
Where he mentioned 'light levels should be machine tested' I'd say he was talking about a machine that tests the intensity of the light....rather than an individual's opinion on how bright they are.

Ok fair enough I picked it up wrong.

goz83

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

I've always adjusted mine by parking the car by a wall at night and going by how level they are on that. I have yet to fail an Nct because of mis aligned lights.

Also the tester was correct it was a simple human error. A missing digit among multiple digits can be hard to spot.

Yeah. Was talking about brightness. At the moment, the tester just looks and decides if it's too dark, or too red/orange, or whatever.

The tester never mentioned human error. I was saying that it would have been OK if the tester said that it was human error, but he was just someone hating his job, or having a bad day, but that was no excuse for being a donkey about it.


QUESTION:

What temp should the engine be for testing emissions? Mine was 83 degrees and high idle lambda failed at 1.41. Allowance is 0.97-1.03. It passed at 1.02 last year when engine temp was 89 degrees. Someone said the temp should be between 90 and 110 for the emissions to be tested.

mloc123

My wifes Megane somehow passed last year with a considerable sized hole in the back box among other things. I brought it up to get a 'fail list' only to be surprised when they passed it. A lot depends on how lazy the tester is.

goz83

mloc123 wrote: »

My wifes Megane somehow passed last year with a considerable sized hole in the back box among other things. I brought it up to get a 'fail list' only to be surprised when they passed it. A lot depends on how lazy the tester is.

That hole is there for the exhaust fumes to vent :P

But yeah, I have seen cars pass that should have been set on fire outside the centre. They failed me last year on a tinted sun strip. I pointed to a taxi that had just passed, with a darker, wider strip. The answer as the taxi one was from factory and after market, no matter how light, would fail. But it's ok to wear really dark sunglasses at night while driving on roads with no street lights. :rolleyes:

Cee-Jay-Cee

OP you've very little to complain about, so a single digit was missing, if all the rest of the numbers were correct then I'm guessing the tester assumed it was a clerical error at registration stage. Would you have preferred if he had refused to test your car and sent you away to get it corrected???

Some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. You are one of those.

brembo26

I had a 97 1.3 Corolla in before and passed no hassle.

The 2 front headlights were filled with condensation.

There was a pretty bad knock on the front drivers side.

Don't know if this counts but the fastest setting on the wipers didn't work, they'd just turn off.

Also had a slightly warped brake disc which could be felt through the pedal.

She would put out a huge cloud of smoke on start up because of the valve stem oil seals were fecked so I was very surprised it passed the emmisions test

Chris_Heilong

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Are you sure the E marks aren't on the other side of the tyres?

Car came from Japan, they dont really have European marked tyres there.

mgbgt1978

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Car came from Japan, they dont really have European marked tyres there.

As in a Jap import ???
You say in an earlier post that a fog light was 'out', I've yet to see a factory fog light (rear) on any Jap import.

goz83

CJC999 wrote: »

OP you've very little to complain about, so a single digit was missing, if all the rest of the numbers were correct then I'm guessing the tester assumed it was a clerical error at registration stage. Would you have preferred if he had refused to test your car and sent you away to get it corrected???

Some people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about. You are one of those.

I have plenty I could complain about. Yes, a single digit was missing, but if all the testers actually did what they were paid to do, I wouldn't have to correct this, so there would not even be a question of refusing to test the car.

I have put plenty of cars through the nct and returned a few for visuals without doing some of the "fail" tasks and the cars have in most cases passed. The one time they failed a visual was on the tinted sun strip already mentioned.

I can understand the VIN being missed once, but the car would have had many NCTs and it only got spotted this one time. They are supposed to check that VIN numbers match the registration of the vehicle. It is not excusable for this to have been missed over and over again. If they did their jobs properly (and I am sure some of them do) then I wouldn't have anything to complain about, despite your presumptuous comment.

Del2005

goz83 wrote: »

Yeah. Was talking about brightness. At the moment, the tester just looks and decides if it's too dark, or too red/orange, or whatever.

The tester never mentioned human error. I was saying that it would have been OK if the tester said that it was human error, but he was just someone hating his job, or having a bad day, but that was no excuse for being a donkey about it.


QUESTION:

What temp should the engine be for testing emissions? Mine was 83 degrees and high idle lambda failed at 1.41. Allowance is 0.97-1.03. It passed at 1.02 last year when engine temp was 89 degrees. Someone said the temp should be between 90 and 110 for the emissions to be tested.

Ambient light levels can make a big difference to how bright your lights look. Getting tested on a sunny day will make it harder to see the light, getting a retest on a dull day will result in a pass. The lights should be visible on the sunny day not dull days.

Drive to the test in as low a gear so as to get the revs up and leave it running while you wait. The hotter it is going in the better. It's not their job to warm up the car, they test it as you present it.

goz83

Del2005 wrote: »

Ambient light levels can make a big difference to how bright your lights look. Getting tested on a sunny day will make it harder to see the light, getting a retest on a dull day will result in a pass. The lights should be visible on the sunny day not dull days.

Drive to the test in as low a gear so as to get the revs up and leave it running while you wait. The hotter it is going in the better. It's not their job to warm up the car, they test it as you present it.

The keys are taken when the car is checked in, so it can't be left running. It might be 15-30 mins before they start the engine and bring it to a test lane, so it is usually cold by then, depending on time of year. I would suspect that cars doing the test during the summer months get few fails on emissions.

slimjimmc

goz83 wrote: »

Yeah. Was talking about brightness. At the moment, the tester just looks and decides if it's too dark, or too red/orange, or whatever.

The tester never mentioned human error. I was saying that it would have been OK if the tester said that it was human error, but he was just someone hating his job, or having a bad day, but that was no excuse for being a donkey about it.


QUESTION:

What temp should the engine be for testing emissions? Mine was 83 degrees and high idle lambda failed at 1.41. Allowance is 0.97-1.03. It passed at 1.02 last year when engine temp was 89 degrees. Someone said the temp should be between 90 and 110 for the emissions to be tested.

The NCT manual says "normal operating temperature" which I assume depends on the vehicle. I'm sure there is a temperature band which the manufacture considers normal. Mine (not FTO) passed with a lambda 1.01 with oil temp at 71C.

Fred Swanson

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joujoujou

goz83 wrote: »

The keys are taken when the car is checked in, so it can't be left running. [...]

That's no problem at all. One key in ignition barrel, engine running, another key waiting to be given to tester. :]

goz83

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If they're on the vehicle, they must properly. If a child set is in the vehicle, it must also be restrained properly, or the vehicle fails. Your example goes to show you how many things are missed and non existent problems are also created.

joujoujou wrote: »

That's no problem at all. One key in ignition barrel, engine running, another key waiting to be given to tester. :]

I suppose that could work, if it weren't for the fact that someone drives the car from the customer parking area to the pre-test parking area and then leaves the car for a while, before bringing it in for the test. They won't leave it running out there, which is kinda stupid, as they would spend less time warming a car up if they did leave it running, with proper security in place of course.

mgbgt1978

joujoujou wrote: »

That's no problem at all. One key in ignition barrel, engine running, another key waiting to be given to tester. :]

Unless it's a diesel.....in which case it will probably fail the smoke test, as letting it idle for several minutes will allow a massive build-up of soot deposits.

mgbgt1978

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Item 28 on the NCT Test Manual


"Where “repeater” indicators are fitted as standard equipment, these must be working."

Fred Swanson

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mgbgt1978

I won't if you don't........

JohnBoy26

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Are you sure they aren't reflectors?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

mickdw

I dont understand the OP. tester did his job and spotted a hard to spot mistake in the VIN. Owner therefore has to get paperwork altered. If tester had spotted this last year or whenever, it would have to rectified then. Either way, the car owner would have to get this rectified so what is the issue, the fault is present in the customers paperwork so I cant see how NCT are at fault.
Perhaps a more relevant question is how did the OP miss this mistake when buying the car. Surely its one of the first things to check that the actual car matches the log book. In this case, it appears that it doesnt so assuming that the OP missed this when there were thousands of Euro involved in the deal to buy the car, I think its easy enough to understand how a tester missed it.

mgbgt1978

I would imagine that the OP is just a bit pi$$ed off that the Testers have passed this car several times already.....yet once they spot a problem that they obviously missed/ignored previously they are now totally unwilling to even engage in any conversation concerning how this was allowed to happen.

Personally, if they have passed the car before then I feel they should pass it this time with a warning to sort it out before the next Test.
After all the world didn't stop turning when they missed it before....
...or perhaps he could reclaim his previous test fees as they quite obviously did not perform the full and proper test which he paid for each time.
It's very simple, they have a list of items to test and check. They did not do this.

delly

My 3 series coupe is down as a saloon on the reg cert, a side effect from being a UK import. It's passed two nct's with me, but I do dread the day that someone will notice and I'll have to get it changed.

goz83

mickdw wrote: »

I dont understand the OP. tester did his job and spotted a hard to spot mistake in the VIN. Owner therefore has to get paperwork altered. If tester had spotted this last year or whenever, it would have to rectified then. Either way, the car owner would have to get this rectified so what is the issue, the fault is present in the customers paperwork so I cant see how NCT are at fault.
Perhaps a more relevant question is how did the OP miss this mistake when buying the car. Surely its one of the first things to check that the actual car matches the log book. In this case, it appears that it doesnt so assuming that the OP missed this when there were thousands of Euro involved in the deal to buy the car, I think its easy enough to understand how a tester missed it.

The tester did his job spotting the problem, but previous testers did not, so i paid for a service I did not receive. The tester was just being a knob when i asked why it hadn't been spotted before. If i ask a painter to paint 4 walls and the ceiling, I expect it to be done properly and in the colour i choose.

I didn't check the vin when i bought the car. I bought from a fellow club member, so i knew it was a genuine sale, but had that not been the case, i would have paid the price if it was a scam. The nct guys missed this on several occasions, but i still got charged, as did the previous owner.

kona

This VIN Number thing is a joke to fail people on, I know why its there but, panels on cars are replaced all the time, example: some minis have it stamped on the scuttle panel, minis are now at the youngest 12 years old, and love to rust, and the scuttle panel is a common panel to be replaced .
So replace the panel, you lose the VIN stamp and you get snagged, now its nothing a few minutes with a hammer and a stamp wouldnt solve but not many people would know this.
Mine Clio failed recentley on this too, was told its under the drivers seat, well its hardly stamped into the carpet is it and the tester never lifted the carpet. I wouldnt mind, but the car is english import so all the windows have it etched on, its in the windscreen, its on the B pillar and this lad wants more!?

A FAIL/ADVISORY would be fairer.

nct tester

kona wrote: »

This VIN Number thing is a joke to fail people on, I know why its there but, panels on cars are replaced all the time, example: some minis have it stamped on the scuttle panel, minis are now at the youngest 12 years old, and love to rust, and the scuttle panel is a common panel to be replaced .
So replace the panel, you lose the VIN stamp and you get snagged, now its nothing a few minutes with a hammer and a stamp wouldnt solve but not many people would know this.
Mine Clio failed recentley on this too, was told its under the drivers seat, well its hardly stamped into the carpet is it and the tester never lifted the carpet. I wouldnt mind, but the car is english import so all the windows have it etched on, its in the windscreen, its on the B pillar and this lad wants more!?

A FAIL/ADVISORY would be fairer.

Chassis number on a clio 99-05 is indeed under the seat but the carpet actually has to be cut to see it. If the chassis number is incorrect by two digits or less, then its deemed to be a clerical error and should be passed but it is noted on the system that there is a discrepency in the chassis number. If the chassis number is more than two digits out then the car wont be tested, money is refunded. Only the chassis number thats stamped onto the body can be accepted as its easy to change the windows in a car and the one on the windscreen is removable easily enough.

kona

nct tester wrote: »

Chassis number on a clio 99-05 is indeed under the seat but the carpet actually has to be cut to see it. If the chassis number is incorrect by two digits or less, then its deemed to be a clerical error and should be passed but it is noted on the system that there is a discrepency in the chassis number. If the chassis number is more than two digits out then the car wont be tested, money is refunded. Only the chassis number thats stamped onto the body can be accepted as its easy to change the windows in a car and the one on the windscreen is removable easily enough.

Well, he knew where it was but just didnt bother to look under the carpet, failed it and just grunted that its under the carpet. its this that annoys the **** out of me.

nct tester

kona wrote: »

Well, he knew where it was but just didnt bother to look under the carpet, failed it and just grunted that its under the carpet. its this that annoys the **** out of me.

What did he expect u to do??

kona

nct tester wrote: »

What did he expect u to do??

I dont know, I expected him to do his job and inspect the car and go find the VIN. Not tell me where it is and fail it.

If he expects me to go hacking up my carpet he can **** off.

nct tester

If you slide back the seat you will see a section of carpet which covers a raised structural bar, there will be a perforated section of the carpet on top of this raised section, chassis number is under that. stanley blade does a nice clean cut.
Most chassi numbers are stamped onto the bulkhead but renault chassis numbers can be literally anywhere from engine bay, drip rail, shock turret, A pillar, under driver seat, boot floor, passenger rear footwell, they seem to change them the whole time.
First time i tested a fluence i couldnt find the stamped chassis number either and after 5 minutes looking i gave up, even main renault dealer didnt know where it was. Eventually located on A pillar, first time i ever saw a chassis number on any car stamped there.

kona

nct tester wrote: »

If you slide back the seat you will see a section of carpet which covers a raised structural bar, there will be a perforated section of the carpet on top of this raised section, chassis number is under that. stanley blade does a nice clean cut.
Most chassi numbers are stamped onto the bulkhead but renault chassis numbers can be literally anywhere from engine bay, drip rail, shock turret, A pillar, under driver seat, boot floor, passenger rear footwell, they seem to change them the whole time.
First time i tested a fluence i couldnt find the stamped chassis number either and after 5 minutes looking i gave up, even main renault dealer didnt know where it was. Eventually located on A pillar, first time i ever saw a chassis number on any car stamped there.

Sound, ill getsome velcro tomorrow and modify it so it can be pulled back and stuck back down.

goz83

nct tester wrote: »

If the chassis number is incorrect by two digits or less, then its deemed to be a clerical error and should be passed but it is noted on the system that there is a discrepency in the chassis number.

Mine was only out by one digit. In my case, the chassis is DE3A020xxxxx but the first "0" is not noted on the log book, which is clearly a clerical error. I was given a form to be stamped by the Garda, but I am wondering if I need to send this off to Dept of Transport. The tester did not tell me this. He just said "get this stamped and bring it back". The guy had an awfully unhelpful way about him and I was tempted to get a manager, but was already running late for an appointment.

goz83

kona wrote: »

Sound, ill getsome velcro tomorrow and modify it so it can be pulled back and stuck back down.

Would you consider stamping it under the engine bay yourself, instead of ripping up your carpet? If that's allowed of course.

mgbgt1978

Nowhere in the NCT Manual does it state that the VIN number must be stamped by the Factory, just that it must be stamped somewhere on the car.;)

The Vehicle Identification Number on the vehicle must
correspond with the information on the Vehicle Registration
File/Book/Licence Certificate. Where difficulty is encountered in
locating the Vehicle Identification Number it is the responsibility
of the applicant to establish the location of this information on
the vehicle.

No reason why the Op cannot just restamp the chassis number on the car and tape over the existing number.

kona

goz83 wrote: »

Would you consider stamping it under the engine bay yourself, instead of ripping up your carpet? If that's allowed of course.

I could do that alright, once it's on the shell, might do it on the suspension turret.

kona

goz83 wrote: »

Would you consider stamping it under the engine bay yourself, instead of ripping up your carpet? If that's allowed of course.

No need, was out tonight getting the car ready, bout to cut the carpet and noticed a pull hole on the carpet under the seat, guess what's under it? tester wasn't too hot