Help me Pick a DC2

pudzey101

Hi i finally decided im going to own a Teg before the weekend Smile i just need your guys help on what one to go for :O

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-integra-1-8-type-r-fresh-test/5926500

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1997-honda-integra-type-r-dc2/5940697

Which would ye go for ? are they over priced etc ?


any help what so ever greatly appreciated

mitosis

Feck :eek:

€4500 for a 16 year old Honda?

Feck, I say. The world's mad

BMJD

go for a 98-spec , I'm not up to date on prices so can't help you there

http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/ is the place to go for info, been around for donkey's years now

pudzey101

mitosis wrote: »

Feck :eek:

€4500 for a 16 year old Honda?

Feck, I say. The world's mad

i know you really have to drive a dc2 to appreciate there true value

kona

mitosis wrote: »

Feck :eek:

€4500 for a 16 year old Honda?

Feck, I say. The world's mad

Better than 4500 on a ****ty ten year old turf burner

Toyotafanboi

pudzey101 wrote: »

Which would ye go for ?

i know its UK not a Jap car but its clearly enthusiast owned and under your budget http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-integra-type-r-dc2-aircon-model/5925149.

@ mitosis - bit of an uneducated comment. same could be said for an s2k. "5k for a 14 year old honda"...

djimi

€4500 seems very expensive for a DC2, especially for the 97 one. I would have thought that you would be looking at somewhere in the region of €3000-€3500 (although Im quite happy if Im wrong as it means I have been underestimating the value of my car!)

My advice to you is to buy as clean and unmolested a car as you can possibly get. Unless you know the car personally and can vouch for the quality of the work done, Id be steering clear of any modified ones and look to buy one as close to stock as possible. Itll be harder to come by, but itll be worth it as it least it means that any modifications you make to it are yours and you can stand over them. Just my opinion.

Also make sure that you have your insurance absolutely nailed on guaranteed to cover it as these things are extremely difficult to insure. Im over 30 with a full clean license and full NCB, and got quoted by only three companies this summer, and two of those (Liberty and Axa) would only consider me because I was over 30.

djimi

mitosis wrote: »

Feck :eek:

€4500 for a 16 year old Honda?

Feck, I say. The world's mad

Its not exactly a 16 year old bog standard Civic/Accord though, is it?

€4500 is too dear for a DC2, but youre not going to pick one up for a grand either, not one in good nick anyway.

pudzey101

i can get the black one handy enough through a PX with my audi

insurance is covered no prob

what are the main things to look out for

Tea 1000

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i know its UK not a Jap car but its clearly enthusiast owned and under your budget http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-integra-type-r-dc2-aircon-model/5925149.

@ mitosis - bit of an uneducated comment. same could be said for an s2k. "5k for a 14 year old honda"...

Plus one on this. I'd far sooner a UK DC2, they're usually better looked after with a more traceable history, unlike the Jap ones, where it's hard to find a decent one.
Go for the UK one. It looks decent.

Tea 1000

pudzey101 wrote: »

i can get the black one handy enough through a PX with my audi

insurance is covered no prob

what are the main things to look out for

Don't care how handy you can get it, I wouldn't bother with it.

djimi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i know its UK not a Jap car but its clearly enthusiast owned and under your budget http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-integra-type-r-dc2-aircon-model/5925149.

@ mitosis - bit of an uneducated comment. same could be said for an s2k. "5k for a 14 year old honda"...

That car wasnt owned by a member on here, was it?

Toyotafanboi

djimi wrote: »

That car wasnt owned by a member on here, was it?

i thought the same, remember seeing a picture of it here before (or another red UK model). havn't a clue who it was though.

djimi

pudzey101 wrote: »

i can get the black one handy enough through a PX with my audi

The 97 one is not worth €4500, not unless there is something pretty exceptional under the hood. PX or not, the difference between what its worth and what they are asking would go a long way towards the cost of your insurance...

Tefral

Having owned a DC2 and now a DC5 I would say: 4500 isn't too expensive for a DC2 that's in excellent condition. The fact is the ones for 3k ish are **** heaps and aren't looked after.

Your going to have to look high and low for a decent one. The very good ones are normally held on to. If your able to spring another 1500 you could get a decent DC5. Much better on motorways for fuel and they are a much better looking car, not as much fun as a DC2 though.

I do miss my DC2 the K20 just isn't as aggressive as the B18.

As the posters above mentioned. These things are next to impossible to insure so make sure you have a quote in your hand before ya part with the cash.

If your buying one, lift up the spare wheel at the back, rust can be a problem there due to the design of the back lights. If you see silicone around the back lights don't worry someone has just sealed em.

A lot of these cars found themselves in accidents, make sure you check all the panels align correctly.

pudzey101

cronin_j wrote: »

Having owned a DC2 and now a DC5 I would say: 4500 isn't too expensive for a DC2 that's in excellent condition. The fact is the ones for 3k ish are **** heaps and aren't looked after.

Your going to have to look high and low for a decent one. The very good ones are normally held on to. If your able to spring another 1500 you could get a decent DC5. Much better on motorways for fuel and they are a much better looking car, not as much fun as a DC2 though.

I do miss my DC2 the K20 just isn't as aggressive as the B18.

As the posters above mentioned. These things are next to impossible to insure so make sure you have a quote in your hand before ya part with the cash.

If your buying one, lift up the spare wheel at the back, rust can be a problem there due to the design of the back lights. If you see silicone around the back lights don't worry someone has just sealed em.

A lot of these cars found themselves in accidents, make sure you check all the panels align correctly.

Finally a person that knows there Hondas lol

sound will make sure to check all them things buddy

Tea 1000

pudzey101 wrote: »

Finally a person that knows there Hondas lol

sound will make sure to check all them things buddy

Something tells me that you were always going for the black one. You just wanted us to tell you that you were right!

djimi

pudzey101 wrote: »

Finally a person that knows there Hondas lol

sound will make sure to check all them things buddy

Did you just want someone to tell you that it was a fantastic car, or were you looking for genuine opinions? I suspect the former...

pudzey101

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Something tells me that you were always going for the black one. You just wanted us to tell you that you were right!

haha you have me down to a Tee

Toyotafanboi

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Something tells me that you were always going for the black one. You just wanted us to tell you that you were right!

the black one was my least favourite.

those retrofit caf's are **** enough looking. unpractically low too.

djimi

Id definitely be looking for a 98 spec if at all possible. Especially for that kind of money.

eringobragh

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i know its UK not a Jap car but its clearly enthusiast owned and under your budget http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/honda-integra-type-r-dc2-aircon-model/5925149.

@ mitosis - bit of an uneducated comment. same could be said for an s2k. "5k for a 14 year old honda"...

That was my cousins car which sold recently mid october - picked that one out myself and test drove it myself didn't miss a beat. we picked it up last year and was sold due to him leaving the country.

Car is solid and doesn't miss a beat - theres a bit of rust on the backsills but its only surface as far as I know.. best fun FWD you can get IMO.

edit: looks like the new owner has done some work on the brakes and decatted it.

Tea 1000

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the black one was my least favourite.

those retrofit caf's are **** enough looking. unpractically low too.

I'd agree. Why take one of the best handling FWD cars ever made and botch it up with your own clown idea of suspension you bought from some dodgy website?
"She's slammed boy..."
F**ked would be more accurate.

pudzey101

thanks everyone

Tea 1000

pudzey101 wrote: »

thanks everyone

You're welcome! Good luck, you'll need it with the black pre-spec R model!
You do realise that the UK ones have a higher rev limit too?

djimi

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You do realise that the UK ones have a higher rev limit too?

Have they? Never knew that! Slightly lower BHP though, havent they? (190 vs 197 or something to that effect)

eringobragh

Bit of background to the red one:

I will say it broke my cousins heart to sell that car - I drove it a few times while the noise of the engine

It had a full UK service history, decent spec with an LSD, first owner in Ireland was an entusiast, second owner only had it for 2000 miles and couldn't afford the insurance -

When my cousin bought it - I changed the oil and put in a genuine honda oil filter, and 2 new genuine honda gaskets for the rear lights (due to small leak in boot). He didn't put on too many miles on her as he cycled to work so no more then 2 - 3000 miles, flew through the NCT with the exception on an airbag light which I diagnosed with the DTC as an internal failure of the airbag module - this was replaced and flew through NCT -

bad points -has a tiny bit of rust on the sills and the bonnet has some at the front bonnet, the wheels could do with a refurb (peeling), has the red fading in places but polishes up nicely.

A genuine straight car - I was nearly tempted to buy this one off him when he was selling it - one of the last examples of bullet proof jap engineering.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I have owned 6 DC2 Integras (4 x SiR's and 1 x 96spec and 1 x 98spec) I wouldn't pay over the odds for a 96spec even though I think the 96spec was a better car than the 98spec but age and wear would make them less valuable now. €4500 is the absolute top price I would pay for a very good original 98spec (with minimal mods)

They are generally reliable if looked after properly but the problem is most of the idiots that now own them are little boy racers who think bouncing the revs of the limiter is impressive. If you are going to look at one take someone who has a fast car with you, get them to drive behind you on the test drive and floor it through the first 3 gears, get your friend to watch for a blue haze/smoke from the exhaust. 98specs are more prone to burning oil than 96spec models as they changed the valve stem seals to a different brand in 1998. 4th to 5th gear syncros also give trouble at higher revs so make sure there is no grinding between 4/5th gears as it requires a gearbox rebuild to cure the problem.

Sticking callipers (on the rear) is also a common enough problem, although I never once had a problem with any callipers in any of the Integras I owned.

There isnt a whole lot else that goes wrong with them other than usual wear and tear items like drop links, bushes etc etc

pudzey101

CJC999 wrote: »

I have owned 6 DC2 Integras (4 x SiR's and 1 x 96spec and 1 x 98spec) I wouldn't pay over the odds for a 96spec even though I think the 96spec was a better car than the 98spec but age and wear would make them less valuable now. €4500 is the absolute top price I would pay for a very good original 98spec (with minimal mods)

They are generally reliable if looked after properly but the problem is most of the idiots that now own them are little boy racers who think bouncing the revs of the limiter is impressive. If you are going to look at one take someone who has a fast car with you, get them to drive behind you on the test drive and floor it through the first 3 gears, get your friend to watch for a blue haze/smoke from the exhaust. 98specs are more prone to burning oil than 96spec models as they changed the valve stem seals to a different brand in 1998. 4th to 5th gear syncros also give trouble at higher revs so make sure there is no grinding between 4/5th gears as it requires a gearbox rebuild to cure the problem.

Sticking callipers (on the rear) is also a common enough problem, although I never once had a problem with any callipers in any of the Integras I owned.

There isnt a whole lot else that goes wrong with them other than usual wear and tear items like drop links, bushes etc etc

thanks ill write all them pointers down

eringobragh

pudzey101 wrote: »

thanks ill write all them pointers down

yeah make sure you stick it into the high revs and look in the mirror for blue smoke - also ask that the car be started from cold when your going to see it.

I had a massive checklist for them I'll see if I can find it - good luck and you wont regret it if you bag yourself a nice one.

pudzey101

eringobragh wrote: »

yeah make sure you stick it into the high revs and look in the mirror for blue smoke - also ask that the car be started from cold when your going to see it.

I had a massive checklist for them I'll see if I can find it - good luck and you wont regret it if you bag yourself a nice one.

Be gratefull if you could root out for me or know of any websites with checklists ?

eringobragh

pudzey101 wrote: »

Be gratefull if you could root out for me or know of any websites with checklists ?

had a quick root there and couldn't find it - I'll try again later I'm pretty sure I got the buying guide from here:

http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/

- I have the Honda Integra service manuals in PDF, let me know once you get one and I'll send them onto you

pudzey101

eringobragh wrote: »

had a quick root there and couldn't find it - I'll try again later I'm pretty sure I got the buying guide from here:

http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/

- I have the Honda Integra service manuals in PDF, let me know once you get one and I'll send them onto you

thanks erin , maybe this http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=79317

looks like best bet to me

eringobragh

pudzey101 wrote: »

thanks erin , maybe this http://www.itr-dc2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=79317

looks like best bet to me

my login doesn't seem to work anymore - other then the usual stuff - bluesmoke on Vtec and noise from the gearbox are generaly signs to just walk away

other than that - buy with your head over your heart

how much is insurance going to cost you?

djimi

Might be worth bringing someone who knows what they are looking for to check over it for you, if youre not sure what the warning signs to look out for are. Even if it means paying a mechanic a hundred quid or whatever; it could be money well spent.

Tea 1000

djimi wrote: »

Have they? Never knew that! Slightly lower BHP though, havent they? (190 vs 197 or something to that effect)

8,700 for the UK, 8,600 for JDM. BHP difference might be due to fuel differences between Japan and here.

RandomAccess

"If you are going to look at one take someone who has a fast car with you, get them to drive behind you on the test drive and floor it through the first 3 gears"

Not sure what the owner would make of that! But hey while you're at it you can test the diff and handbrake by doing a burnout and checking for even smoke distribution. :cool:

djimi

RandomAccess wrote: »

"If you are going to look at one take someone who has a fast car with you, get them to drive behind you on the test drive and floor it through the first 3 gears"

Not sure what the owner would make of that! But hey while you're at it you can test the diff and handbrake by doing a burnout and checking for even smoke distribution. :cool:

When I was buying my car the lad I was getting it off encouraged me to drive the bollox out of it so that I knew there was no issues higher up the revs. To be honest you would be out of your mind to buy a car like an Integra without driving it hard first before you buy.

RandomAccess

djimi wrote: »

When I was buying my car the lad I was getting it off encouraged me to drive the bollox out of it so that I knew there was no issues higher up the revs. To be honest you would be out of your mind to buy a car like an Integra without driving it hard first before you buy.

Yeah, I know what you mean but I wouldn't expect everyone to be open to it. Test pilots an all. You'd have a better chance of checking for smoke by letting the owner cane it with you in passenger seat and your mate following.
OP, Good luck in the search anyway.

challengemaster

djimi wrote: »

Have they? Never knew that! Slightly lower BHP though, havent they? (190 vs 197 or something to that effect)

You'd be lucky to notice the difference. Any Honda I've seen on a dyno is at least 20-30bhp down from factory figures

djimi

I guess you cant sell a performance car and expect a potential buyer to test drive it at 20mph and no more than 3500k revs (I walked away from two Integras because the owners wouldnt allow me test drive them outside of the industrial estate).

Id have no issue with the owner driving the car on with me as a passenger, but obviously Id prefer to drive myself. To be honest, a lot of it is down to the willingness of the owner to allow the car to be driven at higher performance; if they are reluctant to let the car go into the VTEC then Id be questioning what are they trying to hide.

djimi

challengemaster wrote: »

You'd be lucky to notice the difference. Any Honda I've seen on a dyno is at least 20-30bhp down from factory figures

Ah yeah I know that alright (even if I keep fooling myself by telling myself Im still getting 197bhp!).

Cee-Jay-Cee

RandomAccess wrote: »

"If you are going to look at one take someone who has a fast car with you, get them to drive behind you on the test drive and floor it through the first 3 gears"

Not sure what the owner would make of that! But hey while you're at it you can test the diff and handbrake by doing a burnout and checking for even smoke distribution. :cool:

You've obviously never owned an ITR or a honda with a B-series engine. :rolleyes:

The ITR has a high revving engine with an 8700rpm rev limiter. If an owner isnt willing to let someone who is test driving the car rev it high in the lower gears (which the engine/gearbox is more than capable of) then i'd walk away as they are trying to hide something.

As i said earlier, I've owned 6 DC2's and i encouraged anyone test driving the car to rev it on up the range as i wanted them to be sure that everything worked as it should and that if they did buy it they werent coming back to me saying this or that problem arose the following day when they revved the engine such as plumes of smoke from the exhaust or grinding between gears which will only happen at high revs. Like i said, you clearly never owned or drove an ITR.

NobodyImportant

98 spec is the one to go for, it has numerous advantages over the 96 spec, like ABS, shorter 1/2/3 gears, wider tyres, revised suspension, better manifold, HID's etc.

Water in the boot is easily fixed with new light gaskets.

Check the rear arches, UK versions had a metal/rubber protector on the lip which is missing from the JDM version, so if you buy the JDM one, buy those protectors and put them on.

Make sure its well alarmed and immobilised. There are a few extra precautions you can take. I had de-locked doors, decent alarm, kill switch and you can run the bonnet cable inside the engine bay rather than under the arch which can be accessed from outside and open the bonnet.

Obviously check for blue smoke, otherwise its re-build time.

UK versions dont have a higher rev limit. They are 187bhp versus 197bhp on the JDM model. JDM model seems to go well on Dyno's getting near factory specs, whereas the few UK versions I've seen dont quite hit the factory specs.

NobodyImportant

If the owner doesnt want you driving it hard in the first 3 gears, ask him to drive it hard and you drive behind to check for smoke, everyone is happy.

Cee-Jay-Cee

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Check the rear arches, UK versions had a metal/rubber protector on the lip which is missing from the JDM version, so if you buy the JDM one, buy those protectors and put them on.

Do NOT put them on. The reason uk cars suffer from arch rust is because of those arch liners. They collect mud/dirt which eventually eats into the arch. JDM cars rarely suffer arch rust because they don't have them. If your car has them take them off. There are countless threads on ITR-DC2 .com about them.

NobodyImportant

Have you seen them? They slip over the arch lip and stop stones chipping off the paint from below and prevent mud sitting on the arch lip from above. Thats what they were designed for (by Honda for the Euro market). You clean the arches, dry them and put these on to protect em.

I bet there is a lot of observation from UK cars that have rusty arches which were going to happen anyway from above the lip with salted roads, versus JDM cars which came from unsalted Japan. I doubt there is any conclusive research or people retro-fitting those arch protectors onto JDM cars, and then fairing worse than without them.

JohnBoy26

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Have you seen them? They slip over the arch lip and stop stones chipping off the paint from below and prevent mud sitting on the arch lip from above. Thats what they were designed for (by Honda for the Euro market). You clean the arches, dry them and put these on to protect em.

I bet there is a lot of observation from UK cars that have rusty arches which were going to happen anyway from above the lip with salted roads, versus JDM cars which came from unsalted Japan. I doubt there is any conclusive research or people retro-fitting those arch protectors onto JDM cars, and then fairing worse than without them.

Exactly, those lips aren't usually the cause of the rusty arches but they serve little to no purpose Imo.

NobodyImportant

For the few quid it cost me to put them on, it gave a bit of peace of mind to me and the next owners of my old DC2 that the arches might fair out better.

Nothing beats and underseal though...

JohnBoy26

NobodyImportant wrote: »

For the few quid it cost me to put them on, it gave a bit of peace of mind to me and the next owners of my old DC2 that the arches might fair out better.

Nothing beats and underseal though...

The only way to stop the wheel arches and quarter panels rotting out on these is to take of the rear plastic panels on the interior of the car and wax oil the arches/quarter panel from the inside.