breech

simbastar13

Hi I'm 37 weeks today and have just come from my hospital visit. I've been told since 32 weeks that my 2nd baby is breech. Doctor wasn't too bothered at all and referred me back to midwife clinic which I'd originally been attending ( had appendix out at 24 weeks and was passed from midwife clinic to consultants clinic at next maternity visit ). At next visit 34, weeks wit midwife, I was again told my baby was breech and an ECV and c section was mentioned. She explained them very briefly, prob cos I was only 34 weeks, and said I would be back in for next visit at 36 weeks and would be checked. I was told if the baby was still breech I would have an ECV at 37 weeks and a section in week 39. I went home upset to think I could need a section and thinking about the recovery etc so soon after having appendix out. So I researched online and spoke to friends etc for the next week, looked at videos on ECV and went to see my gp for advice. I also booked a private scan to check exact position of the baby and my gp found it hard to confirm the baby was breech. The head felt quite large. So at 35 weeks the scan showed the baby was breech wit his legs up at his head and bum slightly over my bladder area. His weight was estimated to be 6lb 6 oz. My daughter was born 9lb 4 without any complications. I am not big myself and both babies seem to have long legs.people have been commenting on how small I am but my bump is quite big.
At my next hospital app at 36 weeks the midwife was sure the baby had flipped. A quick scan showed this was not the case and I was again being transferred to consultants clinic. A consultant was asked to finish the 'consultation'. She stood at the door of the room and mentioned section and ECV and I started to ask questions. Most of which the answers were 'I don't know'. I felt like I was keeping her from something. She gave me 2 leaflets and asked if an ECV was something I'd consider. I said yes I would give it a go. She said she'd seen 4 attempts, none successful and none needing an emergency c section because of the procedure. She said that ECVs are done on Thurs and Fri and she would book one. I mentioned my daughter was 9lb4 and this baby was measuring big and asked would this affect the ECV. Basically as time went on the baby would have less room to move and she agreed. I also explained that I'd had my appendix out at 24 weeks and would this affect the procedure and she left the room to check wit a registrar.when she came back she said that because my daughter was big they would need to do a scan in the ultrasound dept to check the babies weight. She began filling in a form, told us to hand in back wit my notes and I would be notified of the appointment in writing or by phone and to come back in a week for normal visit.The lady I gave the form and notes back to told me that the ultrasound dept were quite busy and my appointment would not be guaranteed for the same day as my visit but she wrote the date and time on the form.
I heard nothing all week so phoned the ultrasound dept yday morning to check and was told they were very busy and the woman took my phone number and said she'd ring me back. She said they only did ECVs on Fri but she knew nothing more and would have to speak to a doctor.
Heard nothing more so went in for normal 37 week visit today. The doctor asked how many weeks I was, how I was feelin and if I'd any concerns. I said 'well yes the baby is breeched'! She look a bit puzzled and said 'you will have to have a section' I said that I wanted am ECV and she said ' well you are already 37 weeks this should have been booked!!' I explained that I'd nothing since last week and that I was concerned about the baby's size. She phoned the ultrasound dept, they knew nothing. She asked about the form, she tried to estimate the weight herself from her small scanner and she checked my notes and could see that last week the ECV had been discussed and phoned to book me in for one. The earliest day is next Fri when I will be 38 weeks 3days.this Fri is fully booked. I can't help feelin that the chances of the baby turning at this stage are diminishing, esp considering its a big baby. The doctor brushed this off and said there was nothing she could now as the clinic was fully booked this Fri and it was not her fault. She got the senior doctor next door to come in and she said a week wouldn't make a difference. I find this hard to believe. They both said I should contact the complaints dept and agreed that the form for the scan must have gotten lost and that the ECV should have been booked last week. They said there was no signature in my notes so they didn't know who that doctor was. They checked my notes from when I came into a and e at 24 weeks wit pains in my right side and was sent home again. The next day I had my appendix removed in blanch. The doctor that sent me home from the rotunda said it was gastro and to take paracetamol and that it definitely wasn't my appendix. From my notes, the 2 doctors today said there were symptoms that would have made them think straight away appendix and that I should have been kept there or referred to the mater with suspected appendicitis ( high white blood cells, diarrhea, pain in right abdomen). Both said lookin at entire treatment so far I should probably complain to improve their service. I am goin public after long deliberations as to what care to choose. Because everything was fine with my first pregnancy and delivery we decide to go public. Our experience of the hospital was completely positive, until this pregnancy! At this stage I am back in hospital next Fri (38+3) for a scan and possible attempt at am ECV, then for my normal 39 week visit 2 weeks from today. The doctor today said I would have a section in week 39 pm I'm not sure whether to ring in the morning and double check this appointment. I don't want to get to the Fri and have an unsuccessful ECV and be told then that there are no appointments for the following week for a section. Meaning I'm closer to goin into labour myself and closes to an emergency section which I've been told is a bit more traumatic than a scheduled section. Basically as this stage I don't have any faith in the hospital and am almost expecting things to go wrong. I'm wondering if I'd gone private would I have had more continuity with visits and forms getting lost and appointments not being made. Also as I am public and have seen different midwives and consultants each time, I don't have the names of the two doctors I am unhappy with and the 2 doctors today that were much more helpful, said they couldn't make out the signatures or the notes weren't signed. I feel very wound up over the situation and I totally understand that it's nobodies fault that I needed an appendectomy or that I will prob need a section but I just feel I have been left down by the level of care that I have received on this pregnancy and that somebodies negligence means that the chances of a successful ECV being done decrease. I also need to vent and see has anyone else had similar experience. I also understand that we are lucky to be expecting a healthy baby and a section is safer for a breech baby and look forward to meeting our little bundle. I am just disappointed after a smooth first pregnancy and delivery and tellin everybody that I was delighted to go public and was very happy wit the hospital. Thanks to anyone who reads this essay!!

pwurple

What hospital is this? Sounds like something from the dark ages with this craic about only doing certain things on certain days.

simbastar13

Thanx for reading, I just went on a rant and posted. Can I name the hospital? It's the R*****a. Have to say that I was 100% happy on first baby and most of the staff on this baby have been fantastic but just frustrated at some things I suppose

January

I think you need to contact the master of the hospital ASAP. You also need to sit down and write out your points clearly and precisely. Do not let emotions come into this, write facts, as much as you can, request your notes from the hospital freedom of information department also asap.

Fill in this form - http://www.rotunda.ie/Portals/0/Documents/Admin/Feedback/ComplaintForm.pdf

simbastar13

Thanx January for your reply. I am goin to phone the hospital in the morning and double check the date for my next routine appointment. I was told to come back in two weeks but when the lady checking me out told me the dates I realised that it was week 39 for me which is when everyone so far has said I would get section. So don't wanna wait til then and at appointment be told it would be the following week, closer to or after my due date all the while getting closer to spontaneous labour and am emergency section. Thing is I know I should have been asking names etc but as a public patient you see so many people during a visit that it's hard to keep track of names. I asked doctor today for her name as I left and she babbled something about making sure I don't mix her name up wit the doctor last week so I actually didn't catch her name. It was one of those awkward situations but she did add to my notes and sign them. It was the signatures of the 2 doctors that we feel let us down that were illegible. The doctor today said it looked like SHO. The notes from last week did mention to 'discuss wit doctor...' and I have this name and checked the face from the stafflist on the website so I think it was the registrar that the doctor from last week consulted with. It looks like an older photograph but looks really like the doctor that had seen me in a and e and I know she was on last week because I saw her and was hoping not to be called by her. Would be strange coincidence if she was involved again. Anyway I'm goin for 2nd session of acupuncture 2mo and hoping it will relax me more than anything. Thanx again for the reply.

Rosy Posy

I really feel for you- you've been let down by the hospital, it must make it hard to trust them with your continuing care. You probably already know this, but have you looked at this website http://spinningbabies.com/baby-positions/breech-bottoms-up, and tried acupuncture? I've heard it working for people in the past. All the best!

December2012

Hi simbastar - would you consider acupuncture and moxibustion? I did that and my breech baby turned. Also google baby spinning - it's movements to help your baby turn naturally.

simbastar13

Thank you Rosy Posy and December 2012 for both of your replies. I have been on the net non stop lookin at movements and videos to try turn the baby. I was doing pelvic lifts but I think I overdid it and I had really bad heartburn after and had a lot of pain under my ribs for about 2 days after. I have my 2nd session of acupuncture today and have been doing the moxibustion since my 1St session last Fri. There were lots of movements Sunday and the baby almost felt transverse at one stage but his little bum seems to have now gone deeper into my pelvis. At my visit last week I was told his bum was not fully down and somewhere near my bladder. I will try to stay positive but I think that the section is just meant for me now and I'm starting to accept that. I was terrified and annoyed at first but at the end of the day I want my baby to be comfortable and delivered safely. It would be interesting to know if I'd chosen semi private or private care would my treatment have been different? I've health insurance but chose not to add money to it and stick with public. I know for the actual stay in hospital in would be nice to have more privacy if I've had the section. Thanx again

GarIT

If you have to have a section, I think you should be contacting a solicitor, forgetting to schedule appointments like that isn't right. It was clearly their negligence and incompetence that led to the section.

pwurple

GarIT wrote: »

If you have to have a section, I think you should be contacting a solicitor, forgetting to schedule appointments like that isn't right. It was clearly their negligence and incompetence that led to the section.

Sorry, but I think that would be nothing but a waste of the OP's money. Breech babies often cannot be turned, even if they tried the ECV (which they can still do by the way...)

A letter to the master about lost reports and notes (which is very bad indeed) and the poor level of care is called for. But I would be very surprised if getting legal about breech position came to anything.

GarIT

pwurple wrote: »

Sorry, but I think that would be nothing but a waste of the OP's money. Breech babies often cannot be turned, even if they tried the ECV (which they can still do by the way...)

A letter to the master about lost reports and notes (which is very bad indeed) and the poor level of care is called for. But I would be very surprised if getting legal about breech position came to anything.

To be fair I don't know much about pregnancy at all but it would appear that there would be a much higher chance of delivering the baby naturally if they had of managed to get themselves organised. I would see it as reason enough for a good case that they significantly increased the chances of needing a section. Maybe it's bad advice and sorry if it is.

simbastar13

Thank you both for your replies. I think I have to agree tho that I can't completely blame the hospital if I do need a section. I feel somebody is to blame for losing the form to request the scan and also for not booking the ECV last week when I expressed my wish to have one. It delays things and as far as I know will make it harder for the baby to turn. The doctor yday however said a week wouldn't make a difference. Thanks again

simbastar13

Sorry GarlT just seeing your 2nd post now. When I was told at 34 weeks the baby was breech and that midwife mentioned ECV and section I went home and researched vaginal breech births and the info I got was depending on the type of breech, the hospital, details of previous pregnancy's and the consultant it does happen. My own gp seemed quite positive about trying it considering my 1St preg was so smooth and the delivery was very straightforward. But last week I was told the hospital only deliver breech babies by section due to consultants not being skilled in delivering breech babies naturally. I have to admit that I was a little relieved that the choice was taken from me.thanks again

January

GarIT wrote: »

To be fair I don't know much about pregnancy at all but it would appear that there would be a much higher chance of delivering the baby naturally if they had of managed to get themselves organised. I would see it as reason enough for a good case that they significantly increased the chances of needing a section. Maybe it's bad advice and sorry if it is.

There are very few consultants in Ireland that would be trained in vaginal breech births. I think there is one in Holles St but I'm not sure where the others are. Vaginal breech births in Ireland are extremely rare.

simbastar13

I've yet to hear of anybody recently that has had one. At the min I'm concerned about how much stress the ECV at 38+ 3 will put on my bigger baby. I have been told that my partner was born bum first tho many years ago.I've contacted the outpatients at the rotunda and by chance spoken to the same person I spoke to leaving last night. She double checked my appointments for a scan and ECV for next Fri had been made and gave me the name of the person that will do the ECV, which happens to be the senior doctor that was called into the room yday. I will try to speak to her today. I've been told she is the assistant master. I'm hoping she will assure me that if the ECV next Fri doesn't work, that she will have an appointment for me the following week when I'm 39 weeks. And not that she is fully booked and ill have to wait until I'm 40+ weeks. I suppose I'm almost assuming the same thing will happen again and if I speak up sooner rather than later might be able to avoid more stress. Also getting excited and impatient that our little star could be here in 2ish weeks time. Thanks again for the replies.

January

Ask her to book an appointment for a c section at 39 weeks anyway (if you get to speak to her today) just in case that does happen. Better to have the appointment made and not need it than to need it and not have it.

simbastar13

Just an update. I spoke to someone in the masters office who passed the info on to the head of the team that I attend. She phoned me this morning. Seemed to think my concerns were more with the baby not turning. I explained a few things so she provisionally booked section for week 39 and asked me to see her in the clinic on Tues instead of goin to my gp for this visit.she said risk management might look at the issues around when I had my appendix out and appointments not being made etc.
If it looks like my stay is goin to be longer than I originally planned because of the section I am sorry I didn't use health insurance and go semi private. My provider has said my stay would be covered if the hospital allowed it so I mentioned this to her aswell and she said to say it at admissions the day I come in for delivery. But both said the usual ' if it's available on the night'. My health ins provider did say however I should have more chance because it's a scheduled section and they know I'm coming. I've a feeling there won't be any beds available however and don't want it to be something I will get distracted my on the big day. Does anybody know if it's worth my while pushing this, contacting admissions beforehand or mentioning it to the doctor again on Tues? I've never claimed on my health insurance before so a bit new to this. Thanks for any advice.

SanFran07

January wrote: »

There are very few consultants in Ireland that would be trained in vaginal breech births. I think there is one in Holles St but I'm not sure where the others are. Vaginal breech births in Ireland are extremely rare.

All maternity staff are trained in breech birth as undiagnosed breech births and 2nd twin breech births still occur regularly. Finding a consultant who is confident in facilitating a planned vaginal breech birth is another story due to the increase of caesarean sections for breech. Essentially it's a skill that is being lost. I do know of a first time mum who had a planned breech birth in the Coombe 2 years ago and had a very positive experience (with a very confident consultant) and several mums who were offered breech vaginal births in NMH and CUMH after discussion of pros/cos of breech vs caesarean.

Tracy

kidcummins

Hi just came across this when researching breech. Im 35 weeks with my first and baby was confirmed breech at 31week scan. Im nearly a hundred percent certain baby is still that way last week my consultant asked me to think about ECV at 37 weeks, looking it up the success rate isn't too good for first pregnancy and im a little worried about stressing baby out.