Keeping a Pony for a Niece

dryan

Alright folks,

My Niece went out and bought a Pony a few weeks back.
She has great interest in it and it is currently housed at the horse riding school that she attends.

I was asked if i would allow here to keep the pony on a section of the land for a few weeks/months over the summer.

Said i would check it out with the powers that be. I would like to help her out if possible.

Im a part time Beef finishing dry stock farmer, purchase steers and factory finish.

I never had a horse, and never will, and I know nothing about them - Just dont like them - so here are my questions.

- How will this run with the department - am i allowed keep a pony in the herd - even if im not the owner.
- registration?
- I presume the animal will have to be fenced into seperate area and away from my own stock.
- insurance? will my farm policy have to change? or will horse need seperate insurance.

any information you can add will be appreciated.

reilig

We have minature ponies on the land belonging to my nieces.

They sometimes run with the cattle or else following the cattle to clean up. They need to be restricted because if they are fed too well, they could get laminitis.

They are in my sister's name - their equine passports.

They are not hard on fences - cattle fences are enough to secure them.

You'll need to ring your insurance company to see if they impact on it - but I doubt if they do. if they were handling or riding the animal on your property, it could be an increased risk!

They eat a lot - as much as a cow if you give it to them!!

dryan wrote: »

Alright folks,

My Niece went out and bought a Pony a few weeks back.
She has great interest in it and it is currently housed at the horse riding school that she attends.

I was asked if i would allow here to keep the pony on a section of the land for a few weeks/months over the summer.

Said i would check it out with the powers that be. I would like to help her out if possible.

Im a part time Beef finishing dry stock farmer, purchase steers and factory finish.

I never had a horse, and never will, and I know nothing about them - Just dont like them - so here are my questions.

- How will this run with the department - am i allowed keep a pony in the herd - even if im not the owner.
- registration?
- I presume the animal will have to be fenced into seperate area and away from my own stock.
- insurance? will my farm policy have to change? or will horse need seperate insurance.

any information you can add will be appreciated.

bbam

Insurance would be a worry.
I know of a few locals that had bad falls of horses.
If they have their own insurance and they weren't eating much stuff it would be good enough to help out.

Rho b

Even if you do not own the pony your premises are required to be registered with the Dept. Simple enough form to be filled out and as you already have a herd number they just "add" horses to it.
All the info you need is here: http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/registrationofpremisesanimals/registrationofhorsepremises/
If your niece is going to be riding the pony on your land then you are better off checking with your insurance company. Also no harm to advise them in case the pony was to get on the road and cause an accident. We are with FBD and there was no additional charge for third party cover or recreational riding on the land.
Also ensure that the pony has a passport.
As reilig posted over grazing can lead to laminitis and obesity.
If you do section off an area on your land solely for the pony be careful that you do not run into difficulty with your maps/SFP.

rancher

Rho b wrote: »

Even if you do not own the pony your premises are required to be registered with the Dept. Simple enough form to be filled out and as you already have a herd number they just "add" horses to it.
All the info you need is here: http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/registrationofpremisesanimals/registrationofhorsepremises/
If your niece is going to be riding the pony on your land then you are better off checking with your insurance company. Also no harm to advise them in case the pony was to get on the road and cause an accident. We are with FBD and there was no additional charge for third party cover or recreational riding on the land.
Also ensure that the pony has a passport.
As reilig posted over grazing can lead to laminitis and obesity.
If you do section off an area on your land solely for the pony be careful that you do not run into difficulty with your maps/SFP.

Just to give you an idea what you're letting yourself in for, a neighbour plagued me for an acre for a pony for her 12 yr old, I eventually gave in thinking that it would only for a few years and sure what harm.
We're five years out now and the pony isn't ridden but they tell me now that the pony is going to live out his days with them, the pony is only 12yr old and is capable of living at least another 10 - 12 years, maybe more.

Rho b

The horses we have are our own and family. I also kept a pony for one of my nieces but she lost interest after a few years and he was sold.
That is so annoying rancher. Why do you not catch the pony and deliver it to their door.
You could use the excuse that you will get into trouble with Dept for not having a registered premises or if the pony has no passport, now that the new regulations are been enforced.

Sam Kade

reilig wrote: »

We have minature ponies on the land belonging to my nieces.

They sometimes run with the cattle or else following the cattle to clean up. They need to be restricted because if they are fed too well, they could get laminitis.

They are in my sister's name - their equine passports.

They are not hard on fences - cattle fences are enough to secure them.

You'll need to ring your insurance company to see if they impact on it - but I doubt if they do. if they were handling or riding the animal on your property, it could be an increased risk!

They eat a lot - as much as a cow if you give it to them!!

No way would a pony eat as much as a cow even if they were left.

moy83

Sam Kade wrote: »

No way would a pony eat as much as a cow even if they were left.

The hungry hoors would have a good stab at it though !

Sam Kade

moy83 wrote: »

The hungry hoors would have a good stab at it though !

I have one she spent last winter on 2 acres and kept it bare. I gave her some silage and she only turned her arse to it, she would rather picking at the bare ground. She didn't lose any condition either:)

moy83

Sam Kade wrote: »

I have one she spent last winter on 2 acres and kept it bare. I gave her some silage and she only turned her arse to it, she would rather picking at the bare ground. She didn't lose any condition either:)

I dont doubt it for a second but I see a few around here with bellies hanging down and soft hooves on them from all the grass they have put away is unreal . They will eat grass all day long if its in front of them .
I used work for a fella that kept some of the best connemara ponies there are and everything he had except stallions were kept on very poor mountain most of the time without a loss

tabby aspreme

Horses will use sheep wire as a ladder if there let and they also stand on the lower strands to pull it down so they can reach further over it, they can be very destructive , electric fence is the only thing for them ,preferably connected to the mains:D

reilig

Sam Kade wrote: »

I have one she spent last winter on 2 acres and kept it bare. I gave her some silage and she only turned her arse to it, she would rather picking at the bare ground. She didn't lose any condition either:)

A cow will eat for 8 to 10 hours a day, and will lie down and chew her cud for the rest of the day. If you put grass in front of a pony she will just keep eating and eating for 20 hours a day. It's advisable to keep a pony on bare ground for this reason - to prevent laminitis.

KatyMac

Also, if you put a pony/horse in with cattle they are quite capable of bullying the cattle! I have 2 and cannot put them in the same field, anything smaller than them they chase and anything bigger they nip.
A neighbour of mine even had one of his own horses kill a couple of sheep on him. The horse picked them up by the scruff of the neck and shook them and broke their necks. He didn't know what was happening the first time and was actually in the field the second time and saw it happen. So be wary!

Sam Kade

reilig wrote: »

A cow will eat for 8 to 10 hours a day, and will lie down and chew her cud for the rest of the day. If you put grass in front of a pony she will just keep eating and eating for 20 hours a day. It's advisable to keep a pony on bare ground for this reason - to prevent laminitis.

The reason for that is because horses have a monogastric stomach, they can only eat little and often unlike cows. They could probably eat up to 11kg dm a day but a lot of things will reduce that like weather, flies etc. A horse needs about 1% of it's weight in dm/day about 4.5kg grass dm/day.

Bodacious

KatyMac wrote: »

Also, if you put a pony/horse in with cattle they are quite capable of bullying the cattle! I have 2 and cannot put them in the same field, anything smaller than them they chase and anything bigger they nip.
A neighbour of mine even had one of his own horses kill a couple of sheep on him. The horse picked them up by the scruff of the neck and shook them and broke their necks. He didn't know what was happening the first time and was actually in the field the second time and saw it happen. So be wary!

we have a young mare my sister rides and she is a b*tch on cattle and cannot be left with them, other mares are fine.. couple of years back I saw the funniest thing with that same mare, I had her cleaning up cow dung grass and she was separated from cattle by electric fence but they were sharing same water trough.. she leaned over a caught the skin of a lovely strong char bull weanling/ bullock that I over wintered, big soft quiet lad... he watched and he waited and put his head down pretending to be licking his front hoof, waited for her big goofy head to come over the timber rail again and up with the head, he gave her a serious rattle.. I caught her to check her mouth as I thought he had broke every tooth in her head but I had to hand it to him .."she was asking for it and "revenge is a dish best served cold";)

Ave Sodalis

Sam Kade wrote: »

A horse needs about 1% of it's weight in dm/day about 4.5kg grass dm/day.

2.5%, maybe more if being worked hard (though, I'm assuming it won't be)

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Horses will use sheep wire as a ladder if there let and they also stand on the lower strands to pull it down so they can reach further over it, they can be very destructive , electric fence is the only thing for them ,preferably connected to the mains:D

Electric fences are okay but too high a shock, the horse won't go through one, even if it's off and may not even go into the area that it's in. With horses, a response learned from fear is very difficult to undo. The horse with a rug on doesn't really feel an electric fence either.

Usually horses live okay with other animals, and even prefer the company, given that they are herd animals. If they're introduced properly, you shouldn't have many problems.

Sam Kade

sup_dude wrote: »

2.5%, maybe more if being worked hard (though, I'm assuming it won't be)

I beg to differ.
http://www.redmills.ie/blog/posts/2013/07/05/summer-feeding-what-forage-intake-does-a-horse-need/

Ave Sodalis

Sam Kade wrote: »

I beg to differ.
http://www.redmills.ie/blog/posts/2013/07/05/summer-feeding-what-forage-intake-does-a-horse-need/

Absolute minimum is 1.2%, according to that. It's 2% for maintenance and working upward for work as a general guideline. Some ponies need slightly less, some horses need slightly more.

blue5000

OP tread carefully, brother of mine wanted a paddock for a brood mare about 7 years ago, there'll be 7 of them ****s here for the winter.

reilig

Sam Kade wrote: »

A horse needs about 1% of it's weight in dm/day about 4.5kg grass dm/day.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I am aware of how much a horse needs. The above figures are accurate for maintaining a horse. However, if you put fresh grass in front of a horse, it will keep eating, become very fat and end up with laminitis. I have seen it first hand. I have been in the position to be able to compare what a horse eats to what a cow eats, and I can guarantee you that the horse is not very far behind the cow!

Cows are ruminants, meaning they've got four stomachs, so they extract more nutrition from less feed. Horses just take it in and push it out! Horses ability to process lower quality forages than cattle are capable of doing comes with their need to eat more and eat more often!

have2flushtwice

reilig wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you. I am aware of how much a horse needs. The above figures are accurate for maintaining a horse. However, if you put fresh grass in front of a horse, it will keep eating, become very fat and end up with laminitis. I have seen it first hand. I have been in the position to be able to compare what a horse eats to what a cow eats, and I can guarantee you that the horse is not very far behind the cow!

Cows are ruminants, meaning they've got four stomachs, so they extract more nutrition from less feed. Horses just take it in and push it out! Horses ability to process lower quality forages than cattle are capable of doing comes with their need to eat more and eat more often!

Agreed - and heres the scientific bit: food in - food out.
take a walk around and look at the amount of sh1t they make - the grass is just going through them - more **** than a cow.
lock them both in at night in a stable each - compare the fork loads!
theres your answer.

figures taken from a winter in 2010!

Butcher Boy

well we keep a lot of horses and cows and I can tell ye for a fact a horse will eat as much as 3 cows,they have there head to the ground all the time
eating.

Ave Sodalis

Butcher Boy wrote: »

well we keep a lot of horses and cows and I can tell ye for a fact a horse will eat as much as 3 cows,they have there head to the ground all the time
eating.

They don't necessarily be eating a huge amount. Horse's don't eat in bulk, they eat little and often so even though their heads are down more, they're only trimming the grass.
OP, just make sure that the pony isn't in lush, high quality grass as there is a risk of colic/laminitis... neither of which you want. Don't feed it grass clippings. If it's getting fat, restrict the forage. If it's getting thin, you may have to supplement it with hay. Horse forage is not the same as cattle forage. Don't attempt to feed them the same hay/silage unless you know it's dry/matured enough for horses to eat. The owners should know what hard feed to give.
In terms of fencing, the fences you have for cattle should be fine.
Insurance, I would get onto your insurers, just to make sure but I would imagine your own farm insurance could cover it and the rider/owner would have personal and equine insurance.

rancher

Butcher Boy wrote: »

well we keep a lot of horses and cows and I can tell ye for a fact a horse will eat as much as 3 cows,they have there head to the ground all the time
eating.

They're notoriously bad grazers, you should see my ''horse paddock'', he dungs in half of it, thereby dragging all the fertility into that half. but they wont graze there and the other half is all daisies and buttercups be cause the soil is poverty stricken. I'm hoping the owner will get sick of the look of it and leave me of their own accord, it's only an acre anyway

runawaybishop

sup_dude wrote: »

In terms of fencing, the fences you have for cattle should be fine.

Electric tape fence is fine, barbed wire isn't.

bb12

reilig wrote: »

A cow will eat for 8 to 10 hours a day, and will lie down and chew her cud for the rest of the day. If you put grass in front of a pony she will just keep eating and eating for 20 hours a day. It's advisable to keep a pony on bare ground for this reason - to prevent laminitis.

actually scientific studies show (and from observing my own herd) that horses/ponies eat on a pretty regular schedule if they're left to it with enough abundance i.e. 1.5 hours eating, 1.5 resting/sleeping throughout the day.

bb12

rancher wrote: »

They're notoriously bad grazers, you should see my ''horse paddock'', he dungs in half of it, thereby dragging all the fertility into that half. but they wont graze there and the other half is all daisies and buttercups be cause the soil is poverty stricken. I'm hoping the owner will get sick of the look of it and leave me of their own accord, it's only an acre anyway

if you have any sheep, they're the perfect compliment for grazing with horses...they eat what the horses won't. all my paddocks are grazed with horses and sheep together and all evening grazed. also giving the paddock a good harrowing come springtime will do it the world of good