Towing trailer with learner permit ?

soupyryan13

Hi guys I'm just wondering if it's possible to tow a trailer with a mam1 over 3500kg with a learners permit B&W categories do I just add on the BE category or what do I do ? thanks

jimgoose

You'll have to get category BE added to your permit.

Mycroft H

jimgoose wrote: »

You'll have to get category BE added to your permit.

Which you will need a full licence to add a BE permit.

jimgoose

BX 19 wrote: »

Which you will need a full licence to add a BE permit.

Correct, forgot that bit!

CiniO

You need to have full licence first in B category before you can apply for BE category lerner permit.
Then once you have it, you can only to a trailer requireing BE category, when you have fully qualified driver holding full licence in BE category with you.

Also I don't think BE category allows to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg.

corktina

How could you imagine you could legally tow a trailer whilst learning to drive?

mgbgt1978

CiniO wrote: »

Also I don't think BE category allows to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg.

It does Cinio (this is Ireland ),
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Driving-licence/Cars-and-Trailers/
But it can get complicated for trailers manufactured after 2011, 2012 in some cases,
http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/About-your-Vehicle/Example-of-non-Dup/Trailers-/Technical-Trailer-Requirements-/


there are other standards available online....which are slightly different from the above, so as usual it's a pain to even find out what applies in every situation,
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Std%20Leg/Information%20Notes/Heavy%20Goods%20Trailers%20Stakeholder%20Note.pdf

colm_mcm

corktina wrote: »

How could you imagine you could legally tow a trailer whilst learning to drive?

&1 I don't know if people know what a provisional license is for

Tea 1000

CiniO wrote: »

You need to have full licence first in B category before you can apply for BE category lerner permit.
Then once you have it, you can only to a trailer requireing BE category, when you have fully qualified driver holding full licence in BE category with you.

Also I don't think BE category allows to tow trailers heavier than 3500kg.

While some of this makes some sense, I read that you can't go on motorways while holding the learner permit for the trailer. That's pure daft.

CiniO

Tea 1000 wrote: »

While some of this makes some sense, I read that you can't go on motorways while holding the learner permit for the trailer. That's pure daft.

You can't go on motorway towing the trailer.
You can go, if you just drive your car without a trailer.

Makes perfect sense to me.

navara man

soupyryan13 wrote: »

Hi guys I'm just wondering if it's possible to tow a trailer with a mam1 over 3500kg with a learners permit B&W categories

yes if you driving tractor

Tea 1000

CiniO wrote: »

You can't go on motorway towing the trailer.
You can go, if you just drive your car without a trailer.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I know that, and it makes no sense. Not to anyone with any sort of logic.
Even the whole motorway thing, you never go on it until you can prove that you can drive around a town and turn around on a road, then hey-presto - someone stamps a form and you are magically endowed with the powers you need to navigate a motorway! But you fill out a form for a trailer, and attach a trailer to the back that might be even 1 kg over the 750 limit, and somehow those magical powers you had are taken away unless you detach the trailer.
It's absolutely f**king daft. Typical Ireland.
It's either tick the box for whatever license you feel like having, or do the opposite and over restrict everything without using a brain cell to work out logistics.

CiniO

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I know that, and it makes no sense. Not to anyone with any sort of logic.
Even the whole motorway thing, you never go on it until you can prove that you can drive around a town and turn around on a road, then hey-presto - someone stamps a form and you are magically endowed with the powers you need to navigate a motorway! But you fill out a form for a trailer, and attach a trailer to the back that might be even 1 kg over the 750 limit, and somehow those magical powers you had are taken away unless you detach the trailer.
It's absolutely f**king daft. Typical Ireland.
It's either tick the box for whatever license you feel like having, or do the opposite and over restrict everything without using a brain cell to work out logistics.

That's nonsense.
You get your category B (car) driving permit to learn to drive.
It's designed mostly so you can use it to train with your instructor.
Once you are happy you can drive a car, then you sign on for driving test, where you prove you can. Then you get full B licence.
Indeed inability to practice with instructor on motorway is not good thing, but I assume they can't provide "motorway driving" as part of the test, as motorways are just not everywhere.

Then if you want to be able to tow a heavier trailer, then again the same thing from the beginning. You get your driving permit. Train to drive with the trailer - preferably with instructor, and then you pass the BE test to prove that you can drive car with trailer. Only then you are allowed to drive it on your own, and drive it on motorway.
What's wrong with it?
No magical powers are taken off you... You just passed car test, so they don't want you to drive with heavy trailer unless you car prove you can do it by passing BE test.
I really can' understand your point.

unkel

corktina wrote: »

How could you imagine you could legally tow a trailer whilst learning to drive?

Well there are funny regulations in this country

If you prove you can't drive (failed the test) you are allowed to drive away :eek:

DuckSlice

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I know that, and it makes no sense. Not to anyone with any sort of logic.
Even the whole motorway thing, you never go on it until you can prove that you can drive around a town and turn around on a road, then hey-presto - someone stamps a form and you are magically endowed with the powers you need to navigate a motorway! But you fill out a form for a trailer, and attach a trailer to the back that might be even 1 kg over the 750 limit, and somehow those magical powers you had are taken away unless you detach the trailer.
It's absolutely f**king daft. Typical Ireland.
It's either tick the box for whatever license you feel like having, or do the opposite and over restrict everything without using a brain cell to work out logistics.

you can tow a trailer over 750kg with the B licence as long as the gross weight of the trailer and vehicle is under 3500kg.

Tea 1000

CiniO wrote: »

That's nonsense.
You get your category B (car) driving permit to learn to drive.
It's designed mostly so you can use it to train with your instructor.
Once you are happy you can drive a car, then you sign on for driving test, where you prove you can. Then you get full B licence.
Indeed inability to practice with instructor on motorway is not good thing, but I assume they can't provide "motorway driving" as part of the test, as motorways are just not everywhere.

Then if you want to be able to tow a heavier trailer, then again the same thing from the beginning. You get your driving permit. Train to drive with the trailer - preferably with instructor, and then you pass the BE test to prove that you can drive car with trailer. Only then you are allowed to drive it on your own, and drive it on motorway.
What's wrong with it?
No magical powers are taken off you... You just passed car test, so they don't want you to drive with heavy trailer unless you car prove you can do it by passing BE test.
I really can' understand your point.

What's wrong with it? A motorway is the easiest place to friggin drive with a trailer is what's wrong with it. It makes no sense. They just applied the same rules to everything rather than using the old loaf.

CiniO

Tea 1000 wrote: »

What's wrong with it? A motorway is the easiest place to friggin drive with a trailer is what's wrong with it. It makes no sense. They just applied the same rules to everything rather than using the old loaf.

Yes sure. Motorway is generally the easiest place to drive anything.
So why don't we let lads with car B licence to drive articulated trucks on motorways. Sure they passed their car driving test so what's the difference.

Tea 1000

CiniO wrote: »

Yes sure. Motorway is generally the easiest place to drive anything.
So why don't we let lads with car B licence to drive articulated trucks on motorways. Sure they passed their car driving test so what's the difference.

:rolleyes:

quietsailor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

What's wrong with it? A motorway is the easiest place to friggin drive with a trailer is what's wrong with it. It makes no sense. They just applied the same rules to everything rather than using the old loaf.

Higher speeds cause trailers to react differently. A badly loaded trailer may not swerve at 80km/hr but it is a lot more likely to swerve at motorway speeds.

If you've never driven with a trailer before you won't be able to comprehend the distance needed to stop or how it gets bigger and bigger the faster you go.

The faster your driving the harder it is to control the trailer under severe braking.

On a motorway at 120/130km/hr under emergency conditions is not the time to be learning there skills - that's why your kept off until you pass your test, that way you have demonstrated some competence for trailer towing

Mycroft H

quietsailor wrote: »

Higher speeds cause trailers to react differently. A badly loaded trailer may not swerve at 80km/hr but it is a lot more likely to swerve at motorway speeds.

If you've never driven with a trailer before you won't be able to comprehend the distance needed to stop or how it gets bigger and bigger the faster you go.

The faster your driving the harder it is to control the trailer under severe braking.

On a motorway at 120/130km/hr under emergency conditions is not the time to be learning there skills - that's why your kept off until you pass your test, that way you have demonstrated some competence for trailer towing

Speed limit with a trailer is 80km/h anyway.

mathepac

quietsailor wrote: »

....
The faster your driving the harder it is to control the trailer under severe braking.

On a motorway at 120/130km/hr under emergency conditions is not the time to be learning there skills - that's why your kept off until you pass your test, that way you have demonstrated some competence for trailer towing

and hopefully learn the speed limit for towing a trailer on a motorway ....

wonski

unkel wrote: »

Well there are funny regulations in this country

If you prove you can't drive (failed the test) you are allowed to drive away :eek:

Legally - you are not. But I get your point. Still laughin at the 2nd permit rule from years ago, when the looser who couldn't pass a test was LEGALLY allowed to drive on his/her own (by the looser I mean a driver who had to have two permits, because one wasn't long enough)

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

Speed limit with a trailer is 80km/h anyway.

On cars and vans and buses - yes.
On trucks it's 90km/h.

Tea 1000

quietsailor wrote: »

Higher speeds cause trailers to react differently. A badly loaded trailer may not swerve at 80km/hr but it is a lot more likely to swerve at motorway speeds.

If you've never driven with a trailer before you won't be able to comprehend the distance needed to stop or how it gets bigger and bigger the faster you go.

The faster your driving the harder it is to control the trailer under severe braking.

On a motorway at 120/130km/hr under emergency conditions is not the time to be learning there skills - that's why your kept off until you pass your test, that way you have demonstrated some competence for trailer towing

120kph is too fast for a trailer. The point of the permit is to ensure you have someone qualified with you, and they should be able to tell you to slow down. You should know the speed limit when doing a theory test before filling out the permit form. All that should be mandatory. Banning you from the motorway achieves nothing.

quietsailor

BX 19 wrote: »

Speed limit with a trailer is 80km/h anyway.

In the lovely theoretical world you lads live in sure - it's 80km/hr. However I live in the real world and most car &trailer combinations I've seen exceed that speed on national roads much less on motorway roads.

The guards don't have the resources to catch the people who commit the blatant obvious offences. How are they going to enforce that limit????

Instead use your intelligence and realise that if you're on a motorway and see a trailer being pulled at speed you need to take extra care around that vehicle as it may
fishtail in a crosswind
Jump from side to side if loaded off centre
Take longer to stop in an emergency
Cause the car to steer badly if the weight is too far forward.

So while your concentrating on speed limits as you pass the trailer and not paying attention I'm concentrating on what the car and trailer is doing

quietsailor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

120kph is too fast for a trailer. The point of the permit is to ensure you have someone qualified with you, and they should be able to tell you to slow down. You should know the speed limit when doing a theory test before filling out the permit form. All that should be mandatory. Banning you from the motorway achieves nothing.

80km/hr is too fast for some of the trailers I've seen around Ireland. The test should be increased to include an exam on safe loading
practices, safe braking procedures, dangers other than you'll find in a car - crosswinds being one example,

Fine if you've grown up working around trailers you know this info but Joe soap who only hitched on a trailer for the first time the day they got their E provisional shouldn't go out without a driver who knows how a trailer changes a car behaviour and how to cope with that.

Now push the example out to a motorway. High stress environment, no knowledge of how to cope with the trailer - most people are human and will speed up to get off the motorway as soon as possible, and that's a dangerous scenario. Everything happens faster on a motorway - if you obeyed the trailer speed limit most cars are passing you at 150% of your speed. No matter how good the accompanying driver is they still have to:
Assess the danger
Work out a solution
Tell the solution to the driver

Now the driver has to figure out what to do and then do it - all while the vehicle next to you is doing something weird at 120km/hr.

The rule has to allow for all of us - people with years of experience towing trailers who never bothered to get the licence before and those with zero experience - hence no learner E licences on a motorway

Tea 1000

quietsailor wrote: »

80km/hr is too fast for some of the trailers I've seen around Ireland. The test should be increased to include an exam on safe loading
practices, safe braking procedures, dangers other than you'll find in a car - crosswinds being one example,

Fine if you've grown up working around trailers you know this info but Joe soap who only hitched on a trailer for the first time the day they got their E provisional shouldn't go out without a driver who knows how a trailer changes a car behaviour and how to cope with that.

Now push the example out to a motorway. High stress environment, no knowledge of how to cope with the trailer - most people are human and will speed up to get off the motorway as soon as possible, and that's a dangerous scenario.

The rule has to allow for all of us - people with years of experience towing trailers who never bothered to get the licence before and those with zero experience - hence no learner E licences on a motorway

I agree with the highlighted part. But the fact that you mention motorways are a stressed environment - these people have their full license, they should be competent already.
I agree with you regarding safe loading trailers etc too. That's basically my whole problem with it. Instead of doing something clever with thought and logic behind it, they just slapped on the same old "learners permit" rules to everything.
You've passed a test, you know how to navigate a motorway, you're now learning how to cope with a trailer so you need tuition in the form of theory regarding load balancing and securing and all sorts of other information, and you need someone with you who is experienced. That's plenty. Telling you not to go on a motorway makes no sense, you're trying to learn how to cope with a trailer. Rules of the road and experience on motorways is already gained from your full license.

quietsailor

In case any of ye think I'm saying I'm a wonderful driver I'm not!

I was lucky enough to get my young-and-stupid-with-a-trailer out of the way back mid nineties when it was quieter on the roads. I had several near misses so that's why I now argue that you should have extra training and not be allowed drive without an experienced driver while learning

alias no.9

quietsailor wrote: »

The rule has to allow for all of us - people with years of experience towing trailers who never bothered to get the licence before and those with zero experience - hence no learner E licences on a motorway

The driving test will screen the experienced from the novices or more to the point, the competent from the not so competent. Pass it and no more restrictions.

mgbgt1978

wonski wrote: »

Legally - you are not. But I get your point. Still laughin at the 2nd permit rule from years ago, when the looser who couldn't pass a test was LEGALLY allowed to drive on his/her own (by the looser I mean a driver who had to have two permits, because one wasn't long enough)

Legally, you are.....you would have to arrive at the test centre with a licenced driver beside you, so there is no reason why you cannot drive away from the centre (pass or fail) with the same person beside you.

wonski

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Legally, you are.....you would have to arrive at the test centre with a licenced driver beside you, so there is no reason why you cannot drive away from the centre (pass or fail) with the same person beside you.

If you read my post again, you will notice this:

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkel
Well there are funny regulations in this country

If you prove you can't drive (failed the test) you are allowed to drive away

Legally - you are not. But I get your point. Still laughin at the 2nd permit rule from years ago, when the looser who couldn't pass a test was LEGALLY allowed to drive on his/her own (by the looser I mean a driver who had to have two permits, because one wasn't long enough)

---

It is obvious we were talking about a different scenario. At least I was;)