What is an ambulance?

whomitconcerns

So I have noticed more often lately cars and vans with signs in their windows that say ambulance. Normally its bus's from homes etc. But a toyota corolla drove up the bus lane past me the other day and had a sign sitting in its back window. The car looked like a regular corolla except for this printed paper sign.

So was wondering when is an ambulance an ambulance and would you always give priority to a vehicle even if it just had this sign? (i am talking vehicles without sirens, etc)

YbFocus

I think it's a doctor acting in a quick response role, Never heard them using unmarked cars before though, always see them in estate Mondeos marked with lights and bells!

Unre4L

Doctors doing home calls classify as ambulances afaik

Idleater

whomitconcerns wrote: »

... would you always give priority to a vehicle even if it just had this sign? (i am talking vehicles without sirens, etc)

There was a very interesting slant put on this topic in the RoSPA newsletter I got recently. There is a column by a solicitor who writes a legalistic slant to advanced driving topics.
Anyway, the gist is that the emergency services have more right to break the law than the public so if anything were to go wrong with your evasive helpful manoeuvre, you could be in quite a bit of trouble.
Basically, if they are going up the bus lane, or the wrong side of the road, let them at it. Make room for them to pass, but err on the side of the law with regard to your own traffic violations.

Anan1

Idleater wrote: »

Make room for them to pass, but err on the side of the law with regard to your own traffic violations.

From a legal perspective I'm sure the solicitor is right, but I'd still sooner break the law than block a lit-up ambulance.

vibe666

i think i saw a thread recently about someone driving a vehicle like this who was on-call as a medical professional and they had gotten a speeding ticket or something which left them SooL as far as legal protection goes, so i suspect that unless it's an actual ambulance they may not have all that much legal protection. it may just be the case that it's there in case they have to park somewhere illegal in an emergency so that they don't get clamped.

biko

I think also organ/blood transports can use these signs but they usually use dedicated "blood bikes".

whomitconcerns

interesting, as taxis do this role also for hospitals sometimes. I wonder would they then be entitled to have such a sign also..

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Anan1 wrote: »

From a legal perspective I'm sure the solicitor is right, but I'd still sooner break the law than block a lit-up ambulance.

+1
No guard will penalize you for getting out of the way of an ambulance, and I am sure no judge would either.

People are human and have compassion, at the end of the day! (There for the grace of god go I, as us boggers say :P )

RustyNut

Would a vehicle not need to be registered as an ambulance to be an ambulance. ?

The Real B-man

It Has to Have a Stretcher to be Classed an Emergency Ambulance Technically (Lights & Sirens) or it won't pass it's DOE and be Certified.

Non Emergency Ambulances Wheelchair Minibuses etc.

Idleater

Anan1 wrote: »

From a legal perspective I'm sure the solicitor is right, but I'd still sooner break the law than block a lit-up ambulance.

Agreed completely, I offered it just as a so to speak flip side of the coin, where if someone accidentally causes an accident (the example was hit a pedestrian) while getting out of the way of an ambulance, pleading the defence of the ambulance was there is unlikely to be considered a mitigating circumstance.

challengemaster

Just to chime in, any non-HSE ambulances legally aren't allowed use the blues&twos, nor have they any legal basis for ignoring anything in the RTA. The same rules apply to them as they do everyone else.

Hence why any estate car "ambulance" you see always has green lights on top, and will never use a siren.

mathepac

Anan1 wrote: »

From a legal perspective I'm sure the solicitor is right, but I'd still sooner break the law than block a lit-up ambulance.

What would a British solicitor writing for a British publication know about road traffic laws or vehicle identity / branding marks in Ireland?

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

What would a British solicitor writing for a British publication know about road traffic laws or vehicle identity / branding marks in Ireland?

You could take that approach - I'll favour common sense myself.

The Real B-man

challengemaster wrote: »

Just to chime in, any non-HSE ambulances legally aren't allowed use the blues&twos, nor have they any legal basis for ignoring anything in the RTA. The same rules apply to them as they do everyone else.

Hence why any estate car "ambulance" you see always has green lights on top, and will never use a siren.

Yes They Are! Voluntary’s or Privates are allowed to useLights and Sirens certain Criteria need to met before doing so FACT & Yes they Follow the Same Rules of the Road as Joe Soap as stated before are you going to give a Speeding Fine to a Ambulance on a Critical Call

mathepac

Anan1 wrote: »

... - I'll favour common sense myself.

I'd be inclined to apply our own ROTR to the situation rather than foreign legal opinion.

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

I'd be inclined to apply our own ROTR to the situation rather than foreign legal opinion.

Aren't all three in agreement?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

mathepac wrote: »

I'd be inclined to apply our own ROTR to the situation rather than foreign legal opinion.

I would be inclined to imply common sense tbh
I would much prefer to be infront of a judge explaining why I did the right thing rather then asking myself why I obeyed the law but contributed to someone dying.

mathepac

Anan1 wrote: »

Aren't all three in agreement?

Well IME common sense is not all thet common (no disrespect to you personally) but when in doubt, obey Uncle Gaybo's book of wisdom & wise sayings.

EDIT: see above post for example

YbFocus

mathepac wrote: »

Well IME common sense is not all thet common (no disrespect to you personally) but when in doubt, obey Uncle Gaybo's book of wisdom & wise sayings.

EDIT: see above post for example

Would you sit in front of an ambulance if you couldn't legally make a move to get out of the way?
If I see a gap in in it, I'm not stopping people out to save someone's life!

Anan1

mathepac wrote: »

Well IME common sense is not all thet common (no disrespect to you personally) but when in doubt, obey Uncle Gaybo's book of wisdom & wise sayings.

EDIT: see above post for example

Right - by common sense I meant that one shouldn't assume that 'I did it to help the ambulance' will be a defence against breaking the law. This is what the UK solicitor said too, and (AFAIK) there's nothing in the ROTR to contradict it.

Of course I'd still do it anyway.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Anan1 wrote: »

Right - by common sense I meant that one shouldn't assume that 'I did it to help the ambulance' will be a defence against breaking the law. This is what the UK solicitor said too, and (AFAIK) there's nothing in the ROTR to contradict it.

Of course I'd still do it anyway.

+1
As I said, I would rather argue common sense and decency in front of a judge, then argue with my own conscience after blocking an ambulance.

Mycroft H

The Real B-man wrote: »

It Has to Have a Stretcher to be Classed an Emergency Ambulance Technically (Lights & Sirens) or it won't pass it's DOE and be Certified.

Non Emergency Ambulances Wheelchair Minibuses etc.

Your correct. But it also can be a foldable one which is how NAS get away with using a ford Mondeo as a rapid response car.

mgbgt1978

challengemaster wrote: »

Just to chime in, any non-HSE ambulances legally aren't allowed use the blues&twos, nor have they any legal basis for ignoring anything in the RTA. The same rules apply to them as they do everyone else.

Hence why any estate car "ambulance" you see always has green lights on top, and will never use a siren.

That kind of ruins it for The Order of Malta, The Red Cross as well as the private firms such as Lifeline and Murray ambulances (who are often on contract to the HSE).
Couple of Ford Estates (1 focus and at least 1 Mondeo) on the HSE Fleet in Limerick They all have Blue lights.
The only vehicles with Green lights are the 'Shannon Doc' cars, which ferry doctors to patients.

RustyNut

The Real B-man wrote: »

Yes They Are! Voluntary’s or Privates are allowed to useLights and Sirens certain Criteria need to met before doing so FACT & Yes they Follow the Same Rules of the Road as Joe Soap as stated before are you going to give a Speeding Fine to a Ambulance on a Critical Call

Is there legislation that allows private vehicles to use blue lights and sirens? Not being arsey just asking.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

RustyNut wrote: »

Is there legislation that allows private vehicles to use blue lights and sirens? Not being arsey just asking.

No. But there is legislation that expressly forbids it.

RustyNut

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

No. But there is legislation that expressly forbids it.

That's what I thaught but someone with more knowlage than me will be allong to give us the relevant SI.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

RustyNut wrote: »

That's what I thaught but someone with more knowlage than me will be allong to give us the relevant SI.

A quick google provides the lighting of vehicle SI

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2011/en.si.2011.0695.pdf

RustyNut

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

A quick google provides the lighting of vehicle SI

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2011/en.si.2011.0695.pdf

That would seem to suggest that it is allowed for private operators who are "providing an ambulance service" to light the blue lights.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

RustyNut wrote: »

That would seem to suggest that it is allowed for private operators who are "providing an ambulance service" to light the blue lights.

That is the impression that I got upon second reading too.
Unless there is a prior definition of "persons providing an ambulance service" as being the official ambulances and not all private operators

slimjimmc

Under vehicle testing regulations

“ambulance” means a mechanically propelled vehicle used for the purpose of carrying sick, injured or disabled persons;

Under the Finance Act

“ ‘ ambulance ’ has the same meaning as in paragraph 5.3 of Annex II of Directive 2007/46/EC;”,

Directive 2007/46/EC:

5.3. | Ambulance | SC | a vehicle of category M intended for the transport of sick or injured persons and having special equipment for such purpose. The patient compartment shall comply with the technical requirements of Standard EN 1789:2007 on "Medical vehicles and their equipment – Road ambulances" with the exception of Section 6.5 "List of equipment". |

Mycroft H

challengemaster wrote: »

Just to chime in, any non-HSE ambulances legally aren't allowed use the blues&twos, nor have they any legal basis for ignoring anything in the RTA. The same rules apply to them as they do everyone else.

Hence why any estate car "ambulance" you see always has green lights on top, and will never use a siren.

That's complete bull.

Firstly there is nothing to forbid the use of them on non HSE ambulances, go prove your point. I've been on a non-HSE ambulance that have used exemptions (blues and twos) for very good reasons and once with a Traffic Corps escort up the Naas Road.

Patient condition dictates the use of RTA exemptions no matter what ambulance they're in. We're not all out on jollies with them.

Secondly, green lights are not legislated for in Ireland. They technically shouldn't even be used. Go look at the lighting of vehicles SI. Nothing there about green lights.

Here is your common volly estate/jeep. Green lights?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

A surprisingly loose definition of ambulance by Irish standards in that SI imo