Starting into farming

MFdaveIreland

Hi , posted a few times before, but was looking for some genral advice.

Im currently completing AG Tech degree at Uni, and was hoping to get the ball rolling with a part time farming career initially.

I have no ground currently and will probably have to rent .

1) How do you suggest going about securing ground/ land?(without lottery suggestions)

2) is it unrealistic for me to aspire to get into farming (i have been working in the industry for near ten years laboring etc, and hvae family background in dairy farming both sides, yet unfortunaley the opportunity to enter myself wasnt there

FEW MORE THINGS

I realise some people instantly banish the suggestion of getting into farming , and i personally feel some type of hostility to new comers from the old school 'pedigree' if you will, yet such people like my great grand father etc bought land, so the farm had to begin somewhere. i realise that im probably not going to get to such a scale , yet would like to build something up to pass on.

POSSIBLE QUESTIONS

Im sure some will be wondeirng why the hell would i be willing to go into it clean sheet, yet as hard as it is to explain, i feel it like a contagious bug that only some people will understand.

apologies for long post.
happy reading.,

Sharpshooter82

What part of the country are ya from lad,
Your starting the same as me. I worked with contractors for years and decided to go at it myself. I was lucky in a way as I got an acre or two with the house so I started playing around and when the father in law realised I wasn't acting the mick too much, he let me loose on a 3 acre field on the edge of his land across from my own house.
It won't make ya rich but it's a great feeling all the same doing a few bits for yourself. I'm very lucky that it's mainly a hobby to me as I've a full time job so I doesn't hit me too hard if I don't get a real good price for my cattle but it also means I'm not under pressure to sell either.
You will get loads of help and advice here from many of the very experienced posters. They got me through a few troublesome spots as I wouldnt count myself as a cattle man yet ( still learning here)
This is my own two cents but if you have an interest I say go for it as every farm in the country had to start somewhere and from small acorns grows mighty oaks

bbam

I'd wonder if your best bet would be a long term let. Say five years.
This would give you some security to arrange herd number and the like.
You'll need a bit of capital to get going.

It also depends on your attitude and risk taking.
I know a lad couldn't get any money from the banks to get going. So he borrowed from the CU for a car. But put the money into rented land and stock. I think he has 60 aces rented on a 5 year lease with a sucklers running on it, has the SFP too.

Another friend is in a similar position to yourself. But he's struck a deal at home where he is building up his own group of sucklers on the home farm in return for labour. When he has 20 (next year) he's going to rent his own land for them.

There are options, but no cheap or easy ones.

Massey10

If you have no land yourself or money to buy some I think it would be hard to make it as a farmer .Renting land for dry stock farming will not make money for you .
Did you ever think of working for a large dairy farmer .

1chippy

Give it a go but,It will be hard but if it's what you want to do and your determined anything can work. I'm building up nos here and there's no better satisfaction than watching how they go. Don't expect to be drinking, dating or even getting a day off and no a 96 Isuzu trooper and the smell of cows hit doesn't impress most women. If your only at college travel a bit first and do the whole enjoy life before you get tied down

MFdaveIreland

Hi folks, slow at getting back to you all.

Sharpshooter, Thanks for the words of encouragement, i like to hear someone else make a go of it without the negative comments etc, im sure your aware of them. Im located in County Down without being specific to keep some kind of anonomous..ey?

Its hard to translate this through but il paint a bigger picture if i can so you can appreciate my own persona etc.

Have been craving to get into agriculture since i could walk being at both grandparents dairy farms since no age, was alway helping out on one of them since secondary school and finally got a job with them about 5 years ago part time at weekends, to illustrate my committment to it , this may show it... havent missed a weekend in 5 years come what may with no problem doing it , missing out on all sorts..socials/ GAA matches etc etc, and i can safely say there was no mission of that happening if it had of been say plumbing, building etc.

Have a real passion for animals and all aspects of dairying especially. im not some typical tractor driver who assumes the next step is farming. From my own point of view, im quite good with my hands and head, modesty intended, and would love to apply it to my own business rather than constantly 'squander' it on someone else who doesnt appreciate it . i find my self educating individuals whom i work with on foot care, husbandry, mechancials, grassland, u name it. kick in the teeth when im working to those who know and can do far far less, but thats how it is. im sure you can sympathise with some with a burning desire to get the ball rolling and capitalise on these ideas before they fade away.

As mentioned, im in final year in AG TEch and hoping to either progress onto job or pHd to obtain a job with gud income to facilitate this, and i wonder is this the correct route ??

have enough capital for say 2-3 acres bought , or fair bit more rented. also have few old tractors too if that means anything

again, sorry for long answer, but topic on my mind 24/7 have so much to say. thanks

Muckit

Land you buy will never pay for itself from farming in your working lifetime. fact. There is no getting away from this. But once you love farming you will not let this bother you.

A good job is essential, but you are well on your way to this already. You can then farm away without the money worries or wondering how you will meet the repayments.

All of us that are involved in farming are handy, some very handy. If you've been on here a while you will know that. You are not special in this regard. It's a case of having to be. If you haven't a hand to wipe your ar*e you won't be farming long, and that's with inheriting a farm.

You mention your grandfather buying land and I get the feeling you aspire to doing the same. You cannot compare. Different times.

jimini0

GO FOR.IT
I don't think any right man would talk you out of it. You seem like a very determined man.
Ask around your area, farmers, estate agents or neighbours I'm sure somebody know of a small farm that is up for rent. A few acres to start off with.
Don't buy yet rent cos you will need cash for stock, feed, maintenance etc.
Go inquire about land first. Then you can decide on what type of farming suits your land.
Good luck and keep us inform us how you get on

1chippy

well if your going for a job it wont be dairying you will be doing part time. buying 2-3 acres is madness as a starting point. hang tight and rent for a while. when things are a bit better financially you could say pull together a bit of ground of maybe 20-30 acres that maybe a distance away from the other 2-3. stocking can be a major oversight when starting out. ten springing cows could set you back 15k and then you have fertiliser, vet bills, contractors charges,vits and minerals, ai or a bull and all the other bits and pieces that go along with it. head out to nz or aus and gather a bit more experience and cash together and enjoy your time.
Another thing, dont ever presume your better than the lads your working for.Just remember the most of them have a few tricks up their sleeves

mf240

Long term lease would be the most feasable option.

It won't be easy, but you probably know that.

You have one thing going for you in that you have nothing to lose,

Massey10

mf240 wrote: »

Long term lease would be the most feasable option.

It won't be easy, but you probably know that.

You have one thing going for you in that you have nothing to lose,

Just money

Hello_MrFox

So how do farmers get started exactly? I presumed some had a career throughout their lives, made good money and decided to buy a small farm and work from there.

Toplink

Hello_MrFox wrote: »

So how do farmers get started exactly? I presumed some had a career throughout their lives, made good money and decided to buy a small farm and work from there.

A variety of reasons...

By Default, Inheritance, a genuine interest and bought land with money they saved, the economic crash...

MFdaveIreland

Thanks for reply so far.
1) I was careful not to come across as a knowitall, as i can guarantee that im not . In relation to assuming im better than so and so, i understand this totally, yet you may know yourself when u find yourself keeping the so called 'experts' right with things and wonder why , that is all, not wishing to offend.

2) regards buying, im aware it would be totally foolish to buy land and have no cash for anything else as 2-3 acres i not a lot of use in the long run, and renting may seem best,

3) regards grand father or great grandfathter etc, im only too aware of it being different times, and how i feel it damn near impossible to aquire the same as they did in the comparable time scale.

4) i know only too well how farmers are good with hands, im convinced that to be a farmer you need to be joiner, meachanic, plumber, builder, plasterer etc list goes on. I know plenty how could join there hands and it shows, with getting people in to do the most simple of jobs, not me at all. Also like the idea of having facilites to put a few ideas into action for labour saving rather than gift them to someone else just to see them materialised if you follow.

5) im aware of how land will not pay for itself anytime soon etc, so hence im aiming towards a job.
I would like to be the generation that brings agriculture back after a generation without it, as i feel its the best way of life , period.

I have been posting on here before regards possible business avenues, with some ideas around using dairying knowledge and grassland etc to possibily rear dairy heifers and sell them at point of calf, or after calving. luckily came across someone who does just that at home as well as work in department of agriculture so its possible, but any thoughts welcome.

westcoast66

Hello_MrFox wrote: »

So how do farmers get started exactly? I presumed some had a career throughout their lives, made good money and decided to buy a small farm and work from there.

I saved/invested for 18 years and then bought a farm.

To be honest, its ironic I know but I don't think there is enough money to be made in farming alone to be able to save for a farm purchase. You need to have a good job elsewhere or have a good business.

Oh, and don't marry young!

Toplink

westcoast66 wrote: »

I saved/invested for 18 years and then bought a farm.

To be honest, its ironic I know but I don't think there is enough money to be made in farming alone to be able to save for a farm purchase. You need to have a good job elsewhere or have a good business.

Oh, and don't marry young!

There is a lot of wisdom in that post.

rancher

Toplink wrote: »

There is a lot of wisdom in that post.

Was at the 'Smart Farming' conference yesterday, one of the speakers was a guy from Farm Relief Services who started about 20 years ago. He worked every hour he could, maybe doing 2 or 3 milkings on sunday evenings. Eventually he bought 40 acres, developed it and built a slatted shed on it, he then built a house on it, got married, had six children in ten years , then bought another farm.
The subject of his presentation......time management.
Thought he was well qualified

Toplink

rancher wrote: »

Was at the 'Smart Farming' conference yesterday, one of the speakers was a guy from Farm Relief Services who started about 20 years ago. He worked every hour he could, maybe doing 2 or 3 milkings on sunday evenings. Eventually he bought 40 acres, developed it and built a slatted shed on it, he then built a house on it, got married, had six children in ten years , then bought another farm.
The subject of his presentation......time management.
Thought he was well qualified

I wonder how well his kids know him though....

I know a man has to provide for his kids but he needs to spend time with them too. There is a fine balance in there somewhere.

I work full time, 40 -50 hours a week. We have 2 kids. I do 3 hours farming on a Saturday, go to the mart for a few hours of a Wednesday evening and some paperwork during the week. Thats it, no more.

I am lucky in that Dad runs the place and is still young and fresh but I there is no way you'd get me working all day Saturday and Sunday. Life is just too short.

rancher

Toplink wrote: »

I wonder how well his kids know him though....

I know a man has to provide for his kids but he needs to spend time with them too. There is a fine balance in there somewhere.

I work full time, 40 -50 hours a week. We have 2 kids. I do 3 hours farming on a Saturday, go to the mart for a few hours of a Wednesday evening and some paperwork during the week. Thats it, no more.

I am lucky in that Dad runs the place and is still young and fresh but I there is no way you'd get me working all day Saturday and Sunday. Life is just too short.

Everyone has different priorities I suppose, very few successful selfemployed people would call40 - 50 hrs week full time work. There's 168 hours in a week. I saw somewhere that instead of worrying about the world we leave for our children, we should really be worried about the children that we're leaving in charge of the world. Wonder are children having too much done for them, I think 20 - 30 yr olds are paying the price for their celtic tiger upbringing, foreigners are still picking mushrooms here, dairy farmers can't get people to milk cows and we're being told young people can't get work, may be i'm just old, my father put together a farm while I was growing up

jfh

rancher wrote: »

Was at the 'Smart Farming' conference yesterday, one of the speakers was a guy from Farm Relief Services who started about 20 years ago. He worked every hour he could, maybe doing 2 or 3 milkings on sunday evenings. Eventually he bought 40 acres, developed it and built a slatted shed on it, he then built a house on it, got married, had six children in ten years , then bought another farm.
The subject of his presentation......time management.
Thought he was well qualified

where was that on Ranche conference on?
fair play to that guy, i'm sure he sacrificed a lot but if that's what he wanted..
i noticed he did it all while unmarried & not held down, think that's the key, priorities change then.

1chippy

Toplink wrote: »

I wonder how well his kids know him though....

I know a man has to provide for his kids but he needs to spend time with them too. There is a fine balance in there somewhere.

I work full time, 40 -50 hours a week. We have 2 kids. I do 3 hours farming on a Saturday, go to the mart for a few hours of a Wednesday evening and some paperwork during the week. Thats it, no more.

I am lucky in that Dad runs the place and is still young and fresh but I there is no way you'd get me working all day Saturday and Sunday. Life is just too short.

you cant rely on your dad forever. how do you get away with 3 hrs on a saturday? id usually clock a minimum of 15 hrs per week. i have things as well organised as i can and still have the old man pottering around. i'll work my ass of for as long as i can and do apreciate that if kids arrive, things will have to change. there are plenty of lads round here that bring the kids everywhere with them farming. one of the young lads is 8 or 9 and would put most stockmen to shame. A lot of these kids love farming and being brought around with their father so it cant be said they are being neglected of their parents attention. its easy clocking up the hours necessary for farming first thing in the morning prior to work and still enjoy time outside of farming in the evening if you want.

Mac Taylor

My auld man does the day to day stuff here, but at calving and lambing time it's all hands to the pump. I would also spend all day Saturday farming usually with my youngest lad in tow. (he is usually with granda during the week) it's nice to see the three generations out and we all have our uses!. On Sunday its the bare minimum. I realise that the auld man wouldn't be around for ever, so we are continuous trying to improve things around the place. Going forward for example, I can see us contracting out the fert spreading and we will need to spend more on faciliites especially on an out farm.

rancher

jfh wrote: »

where was that on Ranche conference on?
fair play to that guy, i'm sure he sacrificed a lot but if that's what he wanted..
i noticed he did it all while unmarried & not held down, think that's the key, priorities change then.

Conference was in portlaoise, nothing groundbreaking at it but a few nice tips, was doing nothing so I went, advantage of living in the centre of the country.
A neighbour of mine did much the same, worked all hours with FRS and then bought 50 acres at the age of 22, has got the home farm since, so well set up

Toplink

1chippy wrote: »

you cant rely on your dad forever. how do you get away with 3 hrs on a saturday? id usually clock a minimum of 15 hrs per week. i have things as well organised as i can and still have the old man pottering around. i'll work my ass of for as long as i can and do apreciate that if kids arrive, things will have to change. there are plenty of lads round here that bring the kids everywhere with them farming. one of the young lads is 8 or 9 and would put most stockmen to shame. A lot of these kids love farming and being brought around with their father so it cant be said they are being neglected of their parents attention. its easy clocking up the hours necessary for farming first thing in the morning prior to work and still enjoy time outside of farming in the evening if you want.

My kids are only 1 and 3 (both girls) and herself works fulltime too so its just the stage we are at. Dad only turned the 60 last month so still fresh thank god and long may it last.

We are farm 130 acres with a small enough suckler herd so there is a big chance for me to gradual increase the output of the farm over the next 10 years before taking over. The ambition is to make it a full time venture but I'll have to really be on the home stretch with the mortgage before id even consider it.

MFdaveIreland

A lot of good views lads, much appreciated

tippgal84

Hi! Not sure if I should have started a new thread but here goes.... I'm 31 and have worked in various companies over the last decade in supply chain roles and consider myself a hands on worker. I've applies for the green cert and a masters in ucd in ag innovation... but the i really want to get into crop production. I was wondering if anyone could suggest where to get this experience and potentially somewhere to use for my cert. Think I've just been on the wrong path for the last few years and it's now or never. Thanks in advance

Waffletraktor

Practical production as in doing the donkey work or agronomist side vs doing the theory research?(unless want to work as a trials assistant most require a PhD now)

Waffletraktor

Iasis will will be required for crops, not hard just need right person for some practical experience and some studying.

tippgal84

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Iasis will will be required for crops, not hard just need right person for some practical experience and some studying.

Thanks yes I mean the donkey side..... I'd like to start producing myself. I guess I'm looking for someone who already grows on a large scale. Thanks will check out iasis.