Dog killing wounded birds

dto001

Howaya Lads,
The Lab went to retrieve a pheasant that was wounded and she found it and killed it and proceeded plucking it!! Is there any way to stop this?
Cheers

dicky82

you could find yourself in a sticky bind here> If you punish her at the point she she starts to kill/pluck she may think she's being punished for 'retrieving/finding' the bird and be put off doing it again.

couple of questions first. is this her first season/pheasant or just something she did out of the blue? if its her first pheasant/season then you may need to spend time with teaching and steadying her to game. bit of a long process but would be rewarding.if it's something she has done out of the blue then just hope its a once off. I had a springer that would bring baby rabbits out of ditches to me totally unharmed. I have another springer that will bring back every bird as she finds it but will finish off any rabbit that is not cleanly killed.

If you can get a couple of freshly shot birds and do some controlled retrieving with your dog and see where you are from there.

TriggerPL

Is it a young lab ? Ul find that she /he got pecked while picking up a live bird and now bits down to ensure it dead

dto001

She's 2 years old but last season she was out mainly on the lead but this season so far she's killed a snipe and the same with the pheasant I've had her retrieving duck during training sessions with no problem. She killed a chicken (one of the father in laws) and I think this is where it stems from I suppose I have do as you say get fresh game and start again or retire her to being a pet!!

deano2882

my springer/pointer cross does da same but only to wounded birds any bird tht is dead he brings to hand with no problems i dont want to punish him over it so when he kills and before he starts plucking i tell him to leave it and he just walks away but ive to pick bird myself then...it is a hard one to call...

meathstevie

First of all a retrieving dog finishing off wounded game with a soft bite and a few quick swings of the head is exactly what you'd want a retrieving dog to do.

It's a bit problematic when the dog starts to treat the retrieved game as it's lunch. Is there any way you can encourage the dog to speed up the retrieve straight to hand with treats/rewards ?

charlie10

meathstevie wrote: »

First of all a retrieving dog finishing off wounded game with a soft bite and a few quick swings of the head is exactly what you'd want a retrieving dog to do.

It's a bit problematic when the dog starts to treat the retrieved game as it's lunch. Is there any way you can encourage the dog to speed up the retrieve straight to hand with treats/rewards ?

am i reading the first half right?

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

am i reading the first half right?

Haha finally some thing we agree on !

TriggerPL

meathstevie wrote: »

First of all a retrieving dog finishing off wounded game with a soft bite and a few quick swings of the head is exactly what you'd want a retrieving dog to do.

It's a bit problematic when the dog starts to treat the retrieved game as it's lunch. Is there any way you can encourage the dog to speed up the retrieve straight to hand with treats/rewards ?

Are you having a laugh a dog should never bite down on a bird alive or dead !

charlie10

TriggerPL wrote: »

Haha finally some thing we agree on !

shotie

if was me id either get rid or keep as a pet.if shes killed a chicken,snipe and now done that to a pheasant i think shes gone too far to be thought good .

charlie10

still though if the first bird u shot for this dog was wounded (a runner ) the dog should still not of killed it same as him catching the live chicken/hen. first bird i shot for my last springer he brought it back in his mouth alive . so even though he caught a live chicken i still find it strange that he killed it .

shotie

totally agree with ya. my springer brings every thing back alive to hand if she didnt i wouldnt have her. i had a springer a few years back that ate the hole pheasant leaving only the head i got rid the dog the very same day .ive no time for that kinda a thing i belive if a dog does it once more then likely it will do it again when you cant see it been done.

TriggerPL

I had a lab once would retrieve everything perfect but snipe . I thought she just not retrieving them , but I could never find them either , then I notice the bitch was eating them whole in one gulp,

It was the funniest thing ever at the time I'd spent 2 months trying to get ere onto snipe . I was wonder how she look in such great condition .

I sold her After as a duck or pheasant dog .

Try the lab on ducks see if ya get the same reaction she might associate the smell with a bit , and might have different response to a duck .

Then I'd be looking at off loading her to a water fowling man .


It's a lesson to us all ! Never let a young dog retrieve a live bird where possible until fully happy with results .

And esp not crows , magpies , gray back !

Kinzig

First of all a retrieving dog finishing off wounded game with a soft bite and a few quick swings of the head is exactly what you'd want a retrieving dog to do.

Thats about the most ridiculous answer ever seen on a doggy question:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

meathstevie

I agree that I made a very bad choice of words saying soft bite, soft mouth would be far more appropriate but I can't see what's wrong with a retrieving dog swinging it's neck once or twice killing a wounded duck, pheasant or rabbit or hare for that matter and then retrieving it to hand.

I personally think it's preferable over a dog going for let's say a three to four hundred meter retrieve on a winged running pheasant and bringing back a live bird that could have been killed a lot quicker and smoother or worse dropping the bird and having the process start all over again.

Anyway, opinions can differ but I personally believe that there's no harm in a dog properly finishing what the hunter didn't do.

EPointer=Birdss

meathstevie wrote: »

I agree that I made a very bad choice of words saying soft bite, soft mouth would be far more appropriate but I can't see what's wrong with a retrieving dog swinging it's neck once or twice killing a wounded duck, pheasant or rabbit or hare for that matter and then retrieving it to hand.

I personally think it's preferable over a dog going for let's say a three to four hundred meter retrieve on a winged running pheasant and bringing back a live bird that could have been killed a lot quicker and smoother or worse dropping the bird and having the process start all over again.

Anyway, opinions can differ but I personally believe that there's no harm in a dog properly finishing what the hunter didn't do.

I have a clip from today of the scenario you describe where the bird is caught by the springer, brings it back & drops it only for the pheasant to take off again. Would of been sickened if it got away but was lucky to get it. Did feel a bit sorry for him & if had the pointer he would of probably been been dead but not damaged coming back.

I have no issue personally with a dog giving a bird a squeeze.
Ragging, plucking or eating on the other hand.

I wouldn't get rid of a good dog for finishing a wounded bird. I'd work on the retrieve try & get the bird back to hand before the eating process starts!

meathstevie

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

I have a clip from today of the scenario you describe where the bird is caught by the springer, brings it back & drops it only for the pheasant to take off again. Would of been sickened if it got away but was lucky to get it. Did feel a bit sorry for him & if had the pointer he would of probably been been dead but not damaged coming back.

I have no issue personally with a dog giving a bird a squeeze.
Ragging, plucking or eating on the other hand.

I wouldn't get rid of a good dog for finishing a wounded bird. I'd work on the retrieve try & get the bird back to hand before the eating process starts!

You just expressed it a lot better but the sort of thing your pointer does is what I'd call perfect retrieving for the real world of hunting.

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

I have a clip from today of the scenario you describe where the bird is caught by the springer, brings it back & drops it only for the pheasant to take off again. Would of been sickened if it got away but was lucky to get it. Did feel a bit sorry for him & if had the pointer he would of probably been been dead but not damaged coming back.

I have no issue personally with a dog giving a bird a squeeze.
Ragging, plucking or eating on the other hand.

I wouldn't get rid of a good dog for finishing a wounded bird. I'd work on the retrieve try & get the bird back to hand before the eating process starts!

I'm actually kinda shocked to see this with you name attached to it .

If the springer was doing his job right then he should never of drop the bird but retrieved the bird to hand !

As for a dog squeezing a bird , there no other word for it only hard mouthed !

And condoning the squeezing in a young dog gradually leads to biting and crushing of a bird as the do gets older .

TriggerPL

meathstevie wrote: »

I agree that I made a very bad choice of words saying soft bite, soft mouth would be far more appropriate but I can't see what's wrong with a retrieving dog swinging it's neck once or twice killing a wounded duck, pheasant or rabbit or hare for that matter and then retrieving it to hand.

I personally think it's preferable over a dog going for let's say a three to four hundred meter retrieve on a winged running pheasant and bringing back a live bird that could have been killed a lot quicker and smoother or worse dropping the bird and having the process start all over again.

Anyway, opinions can differ but I personally believe that there's no harm in a dog properly finishing what the hunter didn't do.

First of all if you want a bird dead shoot it properly ,

That been said we have all winged a bird, making a statement that it ok for a dog to shake his head to kill a bird is Nutts . It signs of hard mouth simple As ,

No one ere would buy a dog with hard mouth or from a pup from a dog with hard mouth if you knew before hand .

So why condone it in ur dog .

It ur job to kill the bird not the dogs end of !!

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

I'm actually kinda shocked to see this with you name attached to it .

If the springer was doing his job right then he should never of drop the bird but retrieved the bird to hand !

As for a dog squeezing a bird , there no other word for it only hard mouthed !

And condoning the squeezing in a young dog gradually leads to biting and crushing of a bird as the do gets older .

You'll understand when you see the video with the springer - i said drop it & the bird took off, the bitch did what asked - also was only the second live bird it had in its mouth to date & in the one day.
Don't jump to conclusions my friend.

As for hard mouthed - season number 5 with the dog I am referencing & no birds eaten or damaged yet so not losing any sleep.

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

You'll understand when you see the video with the springer - i said drop it & the bird took off, the bitch did what asked - also was only the second live bird it had in its mouth to date & in the one day.
Don't jump to conclusions my friend.

As for hard mouthed - season number 5 with the dog I am referencing & no birds eaten or damaged yet so not losing any sleep.

So it was ur error that cause it !
U commanded the dog to drop it .

Not jumping to conclusions buddy , just stating the obvious from ur quote ,

Dog should alway retrieve to had so you don't have the problem of a bird taken off again ,

Would you not agree ?

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

So it was ur error that cause it !
U commanded the dog to drop it .

Not jumping to conclusions buddy , just stating the obvious from ur quote ,

Dog should alway retrieve to had so you don't have the problem of a bird taken off again ,

Would you not agree ?

Ya it was. I actually have said as much on the video notes. Can't fault the pup - she took off like a demon & pulled it out of a drain at the other side of ditch.
You'll see if the shagging thing ever loads.

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Ya it was. I actually have said as much on the video notes. Can't fault the pup - she took off like a demon & pulled it out of a drain at the other side of ditch.
You'll see if the shagging thing ever loads.

Is this the dog that you got from Andrew ?

meathstevie

TriggerPL wrote: »

I'm actually kinda shocked to see this with you name attached to it .

If the springer was doing his job right then he should never of drop the bird but retrieved the bird to hand !

As for a dog squeezing a bird , there no other word for it only hard mouthed !

And condoning the squeezing in a young dog gradually leads to biting and crushing of a bird as the do gets older .

I have seen pointers taking off after pheasants ( not stories, my old man's dog and siblings/relatives of it ) you wouldn't even believe were shot at all but missed completely only to return twenty minutes to half an hour later with the bird. The same dogs would retrieve a winged bird that I've personally seen dropping and run about 150 meters from the gun, catch up with it and swing it once or twice and retrieve to hand with not one feather missing. How the hell can a dog capable of such retrieves be a bad dog ?

EPointer=Birdss

Yep. Very clever bitch.

TriggerPL

meathstevie wrote: »

I have seen pointers taking off after pheasants ( not stories, my old man's dog and siblings/relatives of it ) you wouldn't even believe were shot at all but missed completely only to return twenty minutes to half an hour later with the bird. The same dogs would retrieve a winged bird that I've personally seen dropping and run about 150 meters from the gun, catch up with it and swing it once or twice and retrieve to hand with not one feather missing. How the hell can a dog capable of such retrieves be a bad dog ?

For that exact reason !! It don't matter if the dog goes a mile or not if the bird is damage in any way !

And as you say it isn't , u either have a one of a kind dog , don't know how to tell of the bird is damaged , or talking rubbish .

I had a lad when I started shooting and was out with my dad , only about 16 at the time , a duck was shot fell about 150 meter away in rapid currents in a rising river ,

Dog spotted it took off befor we could stop ere , after an hour we presumed she was wash away and decided to go to the house to get the lamp ,

And as we got to the car she came running up behind us with duck mad alive .

This is what make hunting what it is ! U see amazing things !!

That does not mean you condone something like a dog biting game .

Do u eat the pheasants ya shoot by the way ?

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Yep. Very clever bitch.

Delighted to hear that ! Anyone I know that got a dog off him us delighted with them

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

Delighted to hear that ! Anyone I know that got a dog off him us delighted with them

Wait til you see the other one

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Wait til you see the other one

Is the the litter that dev and my self got pups out of

EPointer=Birdss

TriggerPL wrote: »

Is the the litter that dev and my self got pups out of

No a Pierglin bitch I picked up after. Would carry an egg for you, you'll be glad to know
In fact was carrying around a balled up hedgehog a few weeks back she found in garden & no one harmed in the process! :pac:

TriggerPL

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

No a Pierglin bitch I picked up after. Would carry an egg for you, you'll be glad to know
In fact was carrying around a balled up hedgehog a few weeks back she found in garden & no one harmed in the process! :pac:

That's what ya want soft mouth and pig headed , would have made a great pic for on ere