Factory deductions, why so many

saranac1

Just raging about the fees that factorys are charging and like noone seems to do nothing about them, E.G. IFA....

Flat base prices are disgracefull at the minute for QA cattle, bulls in particular

And yet these fees especially vets fees should be reduced or scrapped

Anyone have any opinions themselves?

adne

Fully agree, what are the levies and is there anyway to opt out of them?

dharn

Which one is the ifa , if you are not a member can you get it back

bob charles

Just so you know the abbreviations

ABB = An bord Bia
BDE = Bovine Disease eradication Levy - paid straight to Dept
EIF = European Involvement Fund - All farm Organisations

NewBeefFarmer

whats the insurance? is for the animal in their yards before its killed?

mf240

4 euros to clip them. Ffs. Your running a beef factory, you should be able to cope with killing cattle and whatever that involves, what next will they think of, a parking meter outside the Lairage perhaps.

5 euros a head for vets charges Ffs.

You can be sure to stop the IFA levy you don't have to pay that.

Another bug bear of mine is that the hide offal and liver tongue ect. Are all a source of income for the factory but the farmer gets nothing for them.

bob charles

fifth quarter is the factories profit, also the hot weight reduction is a bit on the strong side I always taught

Just goes to show how much less you could sell cattle on the land and have the same amount of money in your pocket with no hassle, but I would say that wouldnt I

viztopia

NewBeefFarmer wrote: »

whats the insurance? is for the animal in their yards before its killed?

The insurance seems to be a funny one. Dont know what exactly it covers. I have often spoken to people and an animal may get binned for whatever reason and the insurance never covers it.

rancher

viztopia wrote: »

The insurance seems to be a funny one. Dont know what exactly it covers. I have often spoken to people and an animal may get binned for whatever reason and the insurance never covers it.

Factory owners Christmas bonus I suppose

bob charles

I have often gotten paid out on factory insurance. allot of animals are uninsurable though that are binned

Farmer Pudsey

For a factory killing 400 cattle in a day vet fees amount to 2K , Insurance to about 1.5K(I think cows are extra) and in this case Hide Con fees if charged on all cattle is 1.6K so all in all about 5K now I wonder how much the vets get in reality and could it be contracted at a cheaper price. Hide charges are a bit of a con as one lad on the line putting 203 strips on an animal as he goes up the line. He is definitely not costing 1.6k a day there is about 1450/profit a day from this lad if all cattle are charged. I usually try to make sure I am not charged for it.

royaler83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

For a factory killing 400 cattle in a day vet fees amount to 2K , Insurance to about 1.5K(I think cows are extra) and in this case Hide Con fees if charged on all cattle is 1.6K so all in all about 5K now I wonder how much the vets get in reality and could it be contracted at a cheaper price. Hide charges are a bit of a con as one lad on the line putting 203 strips on an animal as he goes up the line. He is definitely not costing 1.6k a day there is about 1450/profit a day from this lad if all cattle are charged. I usually try to make sure I am not charged for it.

Vets get serious money for their day I believe

dharn

bob charles wrote: »

fifth quarter is the factories profit, also the hot weight reduction is a bit on the strong side I always taught

Just goes to show how much less you could sell cattle on the land and have the same amount of money in your pocket with no hassle, but I would say that wouldnt I

5th quarter . If an animal goes from 800 kg live to 400 +, killout that nearly half

macflea

a vet get 60 euros an hour for doing a 3 hour shift earning 180 euros a day gross, but when they get their cheque tax is deducted so it could be 120 euros net . max 1 shift per day . usually three shifts in a day so nine vets . so about 1620 euros a day for 9 vets in a factory.
there is usually 20 vets on a panel in a factory and same first nine get called every day and if one of these cant make it in,the next vet on panel gets called . basically all the older vets in their sixties have it all sown up, no younger vets getting called on a regular basis just getting odd shifts. there was controversy last year as retiring vets from department of agriculture were queue jumping these veterinary panels and younger vets getting pushed further down the panel. thats ireland.

viztopia

bob charles wrote: »

I have often gotten paid out on factory insurance. allot of animals are uninsurable though that are binned

as a matter of interest why did you get an insurance payment? I mean did the animal have an accident in the factory and was covered by the insurance or what exactly did the insurance cover?

Robson99

saranac1 wrote: »

Just raging about the fees that factorys are charging and like noone seems to do nothing about them, E.G. IFA....

Flat base prices are disgracefull at the minute for QA cattle, bulls in particular

And yet these fees especially vets fees should be reduced or scrapped

Anyone have any opinions themselves?

Take out the hide contamination and it works out at little over a tenner a head. Go to the mart with 600kg cattle and see what you will be deducted.

mf240

Robson99 wrote: »

Take out the hide contamination and it works out at little over a tenner a head. Go to the mart with 600kg cattle and see what you will be deducted.

Shhh!

Don't ya know all them lads standing around the ring buying factorie fit cattle are losing money. Those jeeps and tri axle trailers are supplied by saint Vincent de Paul.

rancher

mf240 wrote: »

Shhh!

Don't ya know all them lads standing around the ring buying factorie fit cattle are losing money. Those jeeps and tri axle trailers are supplied by saint Vincent de Paul.

Or clever farm management and hard work more likely.

KatyMac

I sent a bullock and a heifer to the factory last week and €53.51 was deducted

Robson99

Usually works out at €11-€12 per head excl IFA levy. Gave up paying that as all they seem to be doing is talking in the papers. When the do something pro active for the beef prices I will go back paying it

rancher

Robson99 wrote: »

Usually works out at €11-€12 per head excl IFA levy. Gave up paying that as all they seem to be doing is talking in the papers. When the do something pro active for the beef prices I will go back paying it

Most farmers support the need to have a representative body, and I reckon a levy on turnover is a very fair way of financing it,
A fifty acre dairy farmer maybe selling €150,000 worth milk versus fifty acre sheep farmer selling €25,000 worth of sheep....hardly fair to make them pay same membership.
Was told by a factory procurement manager last week that farmers were throwing cattle at them last few weeks, so prices aren't going to move when that's going on.

tim04750

Was told by a factory procurement manager last week that farmers were throwing cattle at them last few weeks, so prices aren't going to move when that's going on.

In fairness what would you expect him to say ?.

Robson99

rancher wrote: »

Most farmers support the need to have a representative body, and I reckon a levy on turnover is a very fair way of financing it,

The IFA does nothing IMO for the small farmer. They done nothing for the suckler farmer when the 80euro/ head was done away with.

When factories can pull the base price back from 4.75 to 4.00 in a few months they spoof in the paper that this is not acceptable and this and that should be done. As far as Im concerned their s**tless of Goodman and his empire.

Maybe im wrong but I hate media spoofing and little being done on the ground

bob charles

rancher wrote: »

Was told by a factory procurement manager last week that farmers were throwing cattle at them last few weeks, so prices aren't going to move when that's going on.

And you said I was talking bullocks last week when I mentioned the price being paid to secure cattle in the south over the last 7 days, factory returns will prove me right unfortunately

rancher

Robson99 wrote: »

The IFA does nothing IMO for the small farmer. They done nothing for the suckler farmer when the 80euro/ head was done away with.

When factories can pull the base price back from 4.75 to 4.00 in a few months they spoof in the paper that this is not acceptable and this and that should be done. As far as Im concerned their s**tless of Goodman and his empire.

Maybe im wrong but I hate media spoofing and little being done on the ground

No point saying something should be done, we arranged a protest outsde our TD's office after the suckler scheme was scrapped, seven turned up and only two were suckler farmers, you saw the whingeing that went on here when we protested in Maynooth, We met the factories and what do we threaten them with.....you have to have a lever when you're trying to negotiate
Easy saying something has to be done........any suggestions
You should read our ''co funding'' thread on here......wonder how many of your ''small farmers'' will make an effort to talk to their TDs

Robson99

rancher wrote: »

No point saying something should be done, we arranged a protest outsde our TD's office after the suckler scheme was scrapped, seven turned up and only two were suckler farmers, you saw the whingeing that went on here when we protested in Maynooth, We met the factories and what do we threaten them with.....you have to have a lever when you're trying to negotiate
Easy saying something has to be done........any suggestions

I dont know rancher but some of them fat cats are on serious bucks and should be doing something besides being stuck in front of cameras spoofing and in the journal telling farmers not to accept this and that. Any one of us could do that

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

No point saying something should be done, we arranged a protest outsde our TD's office after the suckler scheme was scrapped, seven turned up and only two were suckler farmers, you saw the whingeing that went on here when we protested in Maynooth, We met the factories and what do we threaten them with.....you have to have a lever when you're trying to negotiate
Easy saying something has to be done........any suggestions
You should read our ''co funding'' thread on here......wonder how many of your ''small farmers'' will make an effort to talk to their TDs

this is the point farming has changed people do not have the time to go to meetings or protests.... i do not want to argue with you... ifa has to move with the times, meetings could take place on line etc

rancher

Robson99 wrote: »

I dont know rancher but some of them fat cats are on serious bucks and should be doing something besides being stuck in front of cameras spoofing and in the journal telling farmers not to accept this and that. Any one of us could do that

There was no reason to pull the price of cattle the way they did, the journal told you that and they were right, yet farmers kept selling for less and less,
Prices reported by IFA are genuine and authenticated and should be used instead of undermined.

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

You should read our ''co funding'' thread on here......wonder how many of your ''small farmers'' will make an effort to talk to their TDs

I'd say I called/met 20 people. One came with me, another man came due to being told by one guy I called, so that made a grand total of 2. In fairness, it was very short notice in our case. However, I could smell the BS of some of the answers I got, even over the phone.

While I do have some significant issues with some things IFA do/have done (particularly one press release during CAP and some of the language used also), I do have sympathy for your leverage point. At what point the leverage was lost I don't know, only in IFA a year myself. There needs to be a serious reconnect with the farmers who are disillusioned with IFA.

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

this is the point farming has changed people do not have the time to go to meetings or protests.... i do not want to argue with you... ifa has to move with the times, meetings could take place on line etc

Have you IFARM on your phone....you cant say we're not moving with the times
I am around the average age of members and despite my position I have refused to use a smartphone so there's probably more like me who aren't comfortable with new technology

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

Have you IFARM on your phone....you cant say we're not moving with the times
I am around the average age of members and despite my position I have refused to use a smartphone so there's probably more like me who aren't comfortable with new technology

i am not arguing with you , you already know my feelings on how ifa have gone downhill... good night

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I'd say I called/met 20 people. One came with me, another man came due to being told by one guy I called, so that made a grand total of 2. In fairness, it was very short notice in our case. However, I could smell the BS of some of the answers I got, even over the phone.

While I do have some significant issues with some things IFA do/have done (particularly one press release during CAP and some of the language used also), I do have sympathy for your leverage point. At what point the leverage was lost I don't know, only in IFA a year myself. There needs to be a serious reconnect with the farmers who are disillusioned with IFA.

Farmers themselves have the lever on cattle price if they'd use it,
Have you seen our proposals for the distribution of pillar 2 funds, may be you'd get a copy from you co. chairman, in fact you should have been given one to bring to your TD. See what you think

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

Farmers themselves have the lever on cattle price if they'd use it,
Have you seen our proposals for the distribution of pillar 2 funds, may be you'd get a copy from you co. chairman, in fact you should have been given one to bring to your TD. See what you think

I may have unintentionally misrepresented the attendance at the meeting. There were actually I think 10 of us there including our county chairman. The numbers I mentioned earlier were from my own immediate area and anyone else I had in my phone contacts list - basically the people I contacted directly.

No, would that document be in the IFA website? I will look there before contacting the chairman, who I may be seeing Monday night if I can get away to a county exec meeting - I reckon you're probably closer to the location of that meeting that I am :pac:

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I may have unintentionally misrepresented the attendance at the meeting. There were actually I think 10 of us there including our county chairman. The numbers I mentioned earlier were from my own immediate area and anyone else I had in my phone contacts list - basically the people I contacted directly.

No, would that document be in the IFA website? I will look there before contacting the chairman, who I may be seeing Monday night if I can get away to a county exec meeting - I reckon you're probably closer to the location of that meeting that I am :pac:

Not on the website, pm me your email address if you like, I will send it to you

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

There was no reason to pull the price of cattle the way they did, the journal told you that and they were right, yet farmers kept selling for less and less,
Prices reported by IFA are genuine and authenticated and should be used instead of undermined.

I suppose I am one of those soft sellers the reality is that Irish production is seasonal. Not a fan of Factory's as i consider that they have done little to set up there own labels etc. AA and HEX schemes were set up by breed societys and factory's have just jumped onto these schemes. There was never an attempt to use Reps by the factory's and if you misstime produvtion you lose big time summer or winter.

In reality most finishers are price takers when cattle are fit they have to sell. I have fresian bullocks at present I booked them last week at 4/KG base local factory's will seldom give aflat price unless stuck( have got it one in last 3 years).
Factory 100 miles away might give me 3.90 flat however after cost I would be down 3-4c/kg. With present rain it is not so much that cattle are being thrown at factorys as that farmers cannot hold grass cattle.

IFA and the comics prices are not serious prices they take the top 10% of prices paid by Donegal meats etc. Look at the Journal ignore the top 4 on the list and there is only 6-7 cent between the rest.I have been caught more than once by trying to achieve IFA andFJ prices and checked factory's up to 60 miles away only to still have cattle 2-3 weeks later and prices dropping like a stone.

After this weekend I cannot see prices climbing too fast even if they do I could not hold unless I put them into the shed. However these cattle are fat grade 3+ on average I think. If fresian go to 4= I lose another 6 cent. It is the same with shed cattle on intensive feeding after 100 days steers and Heifers go stale, bulls might be ok for 150 but beyond that you are in trouble.

You can only really bargin if cattle are really short and the Factory's have committed to contracts that they have to fill.

TUBBY

rancher wrote: »

There was no reason to pull the price of cattle the way they did, the journal told you that and they were right, yet farmers kept selling for less and less,
Prices reported by IFA are genuine and authenticated and should be used instead of undermined.

very simplistic rancher. If you need money in and cattle are going overage, what is the average farmer to do. Hold on thru principle trying to keep factory fit cattle thriving with weather getting worse costing more money each week while you have lost QA bonus and are totally at factories mercy. Easy say hold tight. To be honest, bit sick of this being IFA answer. Lot of advice that is just lip service imo

rancher

TUBBY wrote: »

very simplistic rancher. If you need money in and cattle are going overage, what is the average farmer to do. Hold on thru principle trying to keep factory fit cattle thriving with weather getting worse costing more money each week while you have lost QA bonus and are totally at factories mercy. Easy say hold tight. To be honest, bit sick of this being IFA answer. Lot of advice that is just lip service imo

So there is no way of levering factories to give any more than they want to give, why criticise us for not doing ''something'' so.
I sell all my lambs at the peak supply time of the year and so get the worst price of the year, should I withhold my 10c/lamb levy too
On saying that, I always get what IFA say is available but the factory is 90 miles from us

TUBBY

The whole thing of harvest 2020 is based on being able to put through 40000 cattle a week. At present once we go over 30000 there is a pull. As said on another thread the factories have too much info with regard to cmms. Ifa could lobby on this.

My gripe with the IFA is that the advice of holding tight etc is pretty flimsy and a quick sound bite about difference between UK and our price. We all know that so no need to say it. Work on getting the live store export going rather than letting Goodman veto it.

Not having go at you rancher but there's two very achievable suggestions.

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

So there is no way of levering factories to give any more than they want to give, why criticise us for not doing ''something'' so.
I sell all my lambs at the peak supply time of the year and so get the worst price of the year, should I withhold my 10c/lamb levy too
On saying that, I always get what IFA say is available but the factory is 90 miles from us

Not at this time of year at present the kill is nearly 2K above last year, bull kill is nearly 2K lower than last year. Now Cows are 600extra however prime cattle bullocks 1600 extra and Heifers are 1200 extra. These are the stats for week the 21/10/13. That was a dry week what will last weeks kill be like and next weeks.

Big difference between the lamb trade and cattle trade, very easy to hold 50kgs lambs for a few weeks during the summer we do it with cattle as well. 700kgs bullocks are a different matter in November.

I made the point already that if I was transporting my own cattle it would be a different matter as well. Transporting sheep is a different matter a 14X6 Box with decks will it carry 30+ lambs you will fit 5 heavy bullocks in the same box however you will be over the legal weight limit. So if you have your own transport it is feasible to travel 80 miles. I made that point in another thread.

Lastly Sheep kill will rarely exceed 55K carcasses weighing 22ish KG each. Cattle trade will average in excess 30K animals weighing about 340kgs on average so completely different markets

rancher

TUBBY wrote: »

The whole thing of harvest 2020 is based on being able to put through 40000 cattle a week. At present once we go over 30000 there is a pull. As said on another thread the factories have too much info with regard to cmms. Ifa could lobby on this.

My gripe with the IFA is that the advice of holding tight etc is pretty flimsy and a quick sound bite about difference between UK and our price. We all know that so no need to say it. Work on getting the live store export going rather than letting Goodman veto it.

Not having go at you rancher but there's two very achievable suggestions.

Is there any country that would pay what irish farmers pay for store cattle.
Surely if there was profit, live exports would be happening
Why don't you guys get involved if you think it's so easy. That's what happen in our county. When I was on the sheep committee, I made sure that my biggest critic succeeded me..reckoned it was a good move.

dharn

I have to agree rancher, as a buyer of store cattle I always think they are too dear, but the producer thinks they are too cheap, the jump between processer and supermarket counter is just too great , dont know who is getting the lions share of it but the finisher needs more margin

TUBBY

If store prices were lower the suckler farmers would be squeezed out of business. When store export was mooted a few months back it was quashed pretty quickly. You asked for suggestions to improve things and I gave you two. No point coming back with the why don't you do something about it. That's what our farm bodies which we pay into are for.

As I said before it is not meant to offend you

rancher

TUBBY wrote: »

If store prices were lower the suckler farmers would be squeezed out of business. When store export was mooted a few months back it was quashed pretty quickly. You asked for suggestions to improve things and I gave you two. No point coming back with the why don't you do something about it. That's what our farm bodies which we pay into are for.

As I said before it is not meant to offend you

Who quashed live exports; That wasn't reported at the last meeting I was at.
A lot of misinformation and rubbish out there
I don't mind, let those who think they can do better.....drive on

mf240

The factories collect millions every year for the IFA.

The IFA aren't going to risk this sweet little number, so all they will ever do is a harmless little protest once a year to get their photos in the paper.