Help. UK import. Passat/A4/BMW 3 Series

damoz

I am looking at new car options. Thinking of going the UK route as i cant seem to find as good value here - if i did i would consider it too. I will be driving 25k km per year, so must be diesel and efficient. Would appreciate your feedback on the following options - budget would be ~15k maybe stretch to 16.5.

1. BMW 3 series - hard to get in budget with low mileage. one example would be http://www.cargiant.co.uk/BMW/3-series/details-604336-BMW-3-series.asp?viewtype=0

2. Audi A4 - Probably the car i like best, but again have to go higher milage for the budget.

http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Audi/A4/details-613579-Audi-A4.asp?viewtype=0

3. VW Passat - the sensible play. Bluemotion for fuel efficiency and low VRT

http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Volkswagen/Passat/details-608693-Volkswagen-Passat.asp?viewtype=0

I am interest to see what ye think of these alternatives and also what cost of future servicing would be on each - any big jobs due at 80, 100 or 120 k etc.

bazz26

Avoid the BMW 2.0 diesel engine unless you want to pay upwards of €2k at some stage to replace the timing chain.

The A4 is expensive for what it is imo.

What about a Passat CC? A nicer shape, higher spec than the others and a lot less common too:

http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Volkswagen/Passat_CC/details-614457-Volkswagen-Passat_CC.asp?viewtype=0

bazz26

Timing belt on the A4/Passat/CC needs changing at 180k km or 5 years, whichever comes first.

BMW uses condition based servicing so it will depend on what has already been changed or is due. I had one up to 75k miles the only reall things I had to change on it were tyres, brake pads and discs. As I said earlier there is a design flaw with the timing chain on the BMW engine so I would avoid them and the potential expensive repair bill.

damoz

Thanks for replies Bazz. How likely is the chain change on the BMW _ is it all engines or just specific ones to avoid. I was also thinking of BMW Efficient Dynamics models.

The passatt option lets me buy one with less than 50k on the clock, the BMW probably 60 ish and the Audi 70 +.

bazz26

The BMW timing chain issue effects all models with the 2.0 diesel engine from September 2007 up to March 2011. Google "BMW N47 engine timing chain failure" and you will see the extend of the problem. On the 3 Series if the chain gets noisy then you are looking at getting the engine and gearbox removed to replace the timing chain, tensioners and glides replaced. That costs around €1900 to €2000 from an indy garage. If the chain snaps on you while driving the car then you could be looking at a bigger bill including either rebuilding the engine or replacing it. BMW are only covering the cost of parts under a goodwill gesture on cars outside of warranty if they have a full BMW service history and it is serviced on the button per their requirements. Now it hasn't effected every engine and it can happen at any mileage so do you really want to take a chance?

damoz

Well i will only buy a vehicle with a FSH. If its from the UK is it likely this work would have been done already?

I think i am leaning toward the passatt. Any known issues with the 2011 2.0TDI Bluemotions ?

bazz26

Unless there is documentation to support that it was done then presume it wasn't also anything for sale outside the BMW dealer network chances are it hasn't been replaced either. You will pay a lot more for one of their used cars.

Stallingrad

Given what we know about that BMW engine I would not even consider one unless it shows evidence of being sorted under warranty. A4 is nice but tight inside compared to the Passat. UK Passats are generally lower specced than Irish ones (SE V Comfortline for example), if shopping for a Passat I would start looking here first and compare prices closely.

HandsomeDan

Some reason you like scaremongering folk about the N47, Bazz?

Fact is there are tens of thousands of these engines on irish roads running away every day with no problems.

The exact number effected is prob tiny.

The N47 is easily one of the best 2 diesels on the market - nothing else delivers it's power as smoothly and consistently.

Stallingrad

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Some reason you like scaremongering folk about the N47, Bazz?

Fact is there are tens of thousands of these engines on irish roads running away every day with no problems.

The exact number effected is prob tiny.

The N47 is easily one of the best 2 diesels on the market - nothing else delivers it's power as smoothly and consistently.

The problem and the dates where the problem exist are well documented. This is not opinion. I couldn't care how smooth an engine is if it has a serious design flaw.

bazz26

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Some reason you like scaremongering folk about the N47, Bazz?

Fact is there are tens of thousands of these engines on irish roads running away every day with no problems.

The exact number effected is prob tiny.

The N47 is easily one of the best 2 diesels on the market - nothing else delivers it's power as smoothly and consistently.

I know one person personally who it happened to them and there are a number of people over on bmw-driver.net who have experienced it, not to mind the members over there who are mechanics that make a living from repairing these engines. This engine has a design problem but it's very easy to sit in an ivory tower looking down and say it's scare mongering, wait until you are lumbered with a large repair bill. So it depends on pot luck rather than scaremongering.

Also having owned one with the N47 engine and now driving a newer VAG CR TDi I would argue that the TDi is more refined and pulls better than the N47. 4 cylinder diesel engines are far from being smooth.

listermint

OP,


Have you actually driven any of these models? I would start there and see which one you like. Im all for advice on the net, but you need to get to grips with the car yourself and see how you like each one.

HandsomeDan

bazz26 wrote: »

Also having owned one with the N47 engine and now driving a newer VAG CR TDi I would argue that the TDi is more refined and pulls better than the N47. 4 cylinder diesel engines are far from being smooth.

The TDi is mounted further forward in the bay (FWD), which makes for less less cabin intrusion - but also for a nose heavy drive. IOW, the TDi is no more refined, it's just further away.

The TDi has a typical peaky diesel delivery, which some like, I personally don't.

The N47 is linear and revs and pulls at revs like no other diesel

The DMF on the N47 is actually quite effective, and makes for quite a smooth power delivery, IMO.

Stallingrad

HandsomeDan wrote: »

The TDi is mounted further forward in the bay (FWD), which makes for less less cabin intrusion, the TDi is no more refined, it's just further away.

I LOL'd when I read that, classic. An engine mounted a few inches further forward will make precious little difference to refinement levels, it is all down to inherent refinement, how its mounted, sound insulation, etc.

Wexfordian

Damoz,

have a look at Tom Moran. Not sure where you are based, but if you are east Munster somewhere its viable. His stuff is newly rereg'ed UK imports and has some good value (and a pretty good rep). (And before anyone asks, no connection other than planning on buying a car from him shortly, so been looking into it!)

Edit: He deals in UK imports, not to say everything he has is a UK import...

bazz26

HandsomeDan wrote: »

The TDi is mounted further forward in the bay (FWD), which makes for less less cabin intrusion - but also for a nose heavy drive. IOW, the TDi is no more refined, it's just further away.

The TDi has a typical peaky diesel delivery, which some like, I personally don't.

The N47 is linear and revs and pulls at revs like no other diesel

The DMF on the N47 is actually quite effective, and makes for quite a smooth power delivery, IMO.

Na, your thinking of the old PD units, the newer CR units are more linear like most modern diesel engines.

dnme

Is it even worth it. Take one of your OP examples
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Audi/A4/details-613579-Audi-A4.asp?viewtype=0

I did a rough calculation on that using the ROS VRT calculator.
STG Price: £9800
EUR Conversion: €11568
VRT: €2570
Total: €14138

Then if you look at Carzone
€13950 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/2.0-TDI-/201344219321763/advert?channel=CARS

€14000 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/2.0-TDI-/201339218652497/advert?channel=CARS

etc etc

I realise my calculation is optimistic and does not allow for dealing / haggling but then again, it also does not include travel and misc expenses.

Are the days of great import bargains from the UK a thing of the past ?

HandsomeDan

Still not as good as a N47. No diesel pulls at revs like an N47 - tis in a ****in league of its own

bazz26

Timing chain issue aside it's not a bad engine but it's not a class leader imo. Maybe you just need to broaden your experience of other diesel engines a little more.

damoz

Thanks for the replies. The more i think about it the less i can decide on !

So, if you have 16k to spend today, and drove 30,000 km per year what would you buy and why? Maybe thats an easier way to look at this.

DuckSlice

I would be buying a 325d or 330d or a 335d. I think all 3 have the same engine just different levels of tuning. I'm open to correction on tht. I have had a drive in a 325d and a 635d both were lovely to drive and the 635 pulled like a train. That's what I would buy.

George Dalton

dnme wrote: »

Is it even worth it. Take one of your OP examples
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Audi/A4/details-613579-Audi-A4.asp?viewtype=0

I did a rough calculation on that using the ROS VRT calculator.
STG Price: £9800
EUR Conversion: €11568
VRT: €2570
Total: €14138

Then if you look at Carzone
€13950 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/2.0-TDI-/201344219321763/advert?channel=CARS

€14000 - http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A4/2.0-TDI-/201339218652497/advert?channel=CARS

etc etc

I realise my calculation is optimistic and does not allow for dealing / haggling but then again, it also does not include travel and misc expenses.

Are the days of great import bargains from the UK a thing of the past ?

When I read the OP I suspected this might be the case, I am glad someone else worked out the maths and saved me the bother :pac:

There is no bargaining with Cargiant either btw, in fact you have to add on a £100 admin fee to the asking price to get the true price.

dnme

George Dalton wrote: »

When I read the OP I suspected this might be the case, I am glad someone else worked out the maths and saved me the bother :pac:

There is no bargaining with Cargiant either btw, in fact you have to add on a £100 admin fee to the asking price to get the true price.

Glad someone notices my posts

mad m

OP, have you considered a Honda Accord? Afaik timing chain has lifetime warranty on Accords.

damoz

I looked at an Accord and it would be in the running alright - if spec'ed right.

R.O.R

Also consider the Volvo S60. D3 engine gives 163bhp and more torque than you can shake a stick at. Great seats, and generally a better standard specification than the BMW/Audi equivalent.

30k service intervals, Timing belt due around 220,000km I think.

Just had a 2011 back with 214,000 - unfortunately he had a few issues with the A/C on that car.

If you could find a D5 then it's more power with the same Co2 emissions and fuel consumption.

bazz26

R.O.R wrote: »

Also consider the Volvo S60. D3 engine gives 163bhp and more torque than you can shake a stick at. Great seats, and generally a better standard specification than the BMW/Audi equivalent.

30k service intervals, Timing belt due around 220,000km I think.

Just had a 2011 back with 214,000 - unfortunately he had a few issues with the A/C on that car.

If you could find a D5 then it's more power with the same Co2 emissions and fuel consumption.

What's the difference between the D3 and D4 these days, just bhp?

R.O.R

bazz26 wrote: »

What's the difference between the D3 and D4 these days, just bhp?

What D3

D2 has always been 115ps. 4 cylinder PSA 1.6d
D3 was 163ps, then they introduced a 136ps version.
D4 was 163ps. D3 & D4 were both 5 cylinder 2.0d, single turbo.
D5 was 205/215ps twin turbo 2.4d 5 cylinder (from about 2010 onwards)

D3 has now gone (from wk46 production). D4 has now changed from a 5 cylinder 2 litre diesel to a 4 cylinder 2.0 diesel, with an ECU on each injector.

181ps with Co2 of 99g (on the S60) with 0-60 in around 7 seconds. Sounds pretty good to me.

damoz

My head hurts. Can you send me links to good examples for sale. Lol

Leonard Hofstadter

dnme wrote: »

Is it even worth it. Take one of your OP examples
http://www.cargiant.co.uk/Audi/A4/details-613579-Audi-A4.asp?viewtype=0

I did a rough calculation on that using the ROS VRT calculator.
STG Price: £9800
EUR Conversion: €11568
VRT: €2570
Total: €14138

You're forgetting the fact that the spec on UK cars is still far better than in backward old Ireland. I was talking to someone today about the satnav in her Audi A1 - do they even fit a/c as standard to Paddy spec A1s?

Also the engines are usually more powerful and are something that would be able for the car - you won't find too many 316ds with their miserable 114 bhp for example.

Finally, what about service history. Servicing a car bang on time is the norm in the UK, but in Ireland it's almost an alien concept (sure why would you want to be throwing money down the drain like that?) to far too many people.

For those reasons, I would go to the trouble of importing. I for one would happily pay more for a better maintained car with more spec and a proper engine rather than the underpowered rubbish most Paddy spec cars have.

The spec on far too many Irish cars is still atrocious - in fact the UK has moved so far ahead of Ireland in the past few years one wonders will Irish spec cars in 10 years time even match what is available in the UK now? Even allowing for the general tendency of the average Irish buyer to buy the lowest possible spec (and of course, the least powerful engine, which has to be diesel in order to save a euro a week on motor tax), the lowest posible spec in the UK could be still be better equipped than a mid spec Irish car - the Ford Focus being the most obvious example.

damoz

The post above is the primary reason i would go to the UK. Like for like i cant get anywhere near the value in Ireland for the same make/model/spec even allowing for travel costs etc.

But im still no closer to deciding on what to actually buy. Possible a 2011 Passat - 2.0 140BHP Bluemotion with 50k on the clock.

listermint

damoz wrote: »

The post above is the primary reason i would go to the UK. Like for like i cant get anywhere near the value in Ireland for the same make/model/spec even allowing for travel costs etc.

But im still no closer to deciding on what to actually buy. Possible a 2011 Passat - 2.0 140BHP Bluemotion with 50k on the clock.

And yet you still havent driven one of them ?

Its a large investment to make into something you havent test driven. I am still recommending you go out to some dealers and actually test drive.

damoz

I have driven many passats - a 105, and 110 BHP, and a 170BHP once. Nice car, but underpowered at 105/110. It is hard to track down a 140 BHP near me - all are 105, with a few 110 thrown in for good measure.

So maybe i am making too much of an assumption that the 140 would be a better drive. Ill see if i can get one to test.