New Tenacy Issues

EKayI

Hi, firstly sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, I've been awake for a while trying to sort this mess out... I recently viewed a property that was advertised as Pets Allowed, the property had a dog run, dog kennel and clear evidence that dogs lived there previously, since I have a dog I agreed to take the property and paid the deposit, the other day when signing the lease there was a paragraph about consent to keep an animal on the property, so I asked for consent to keep my dog there and was told no! (lesson learned here on my part about always mentioned a pet very early on..regardless of what the ad says!)

At this stage the lease was already signed so I asked what could we work out (as my current lease was running out the next day) so they asked for an extra deposit to cover my dog, and to agree to a new set of lease agreements (pet to be kept outside, cover any damages out of my own pocket, a CC number to cover damages if I didn't pay,and that if the dog was found in the house he would be removed from the property and I would have one week to vacate) all this was extremely strict but as I only had a few hours in my current property I agreed out of fear of being homeless, paid the extra deposit and gave it a go, but on moving over I knew instantly my dog was not going to adjust to being outside 24/7 and he was already getting distressed (one other clause was that if the neighbors ever complained he would be removed and we had 1 month to leave the property), thankfully my previous landlord is an absolute gem and agreed to let me back into my old property that night and while I sort this out.

So I phoned the EA today and told her this was not going to work, the dog was too distressed and I'm only risking losing my deposit(s) by even trying to adjust him to these new boundaries, and wanted to discuss options to end the tenancy, she started pointing me towards termination rules set out for fixed term lease agreements, but when I mentioned it was a periodic tenancy she denied and said I should educated myself on tenancy agreements.

Below are a few snippets from the lease.

On the cover note it states:

Note for Tenants

This is a Fixed Term Tenancy Agreement

But on the next page it says:

(d)TERM: 12 months. Periodic Month-To-Month Tenancy Agreement, 4 Year Cycle.



xxth October 2013 up until and including xxth October 2014

But then again, on a further page near the end it says:

7. The Tenant may terminate this Tenancy Agreement at any time without stating the grounds by serving written notice on the Landlord. The Notice Period for such a termination by the Tenant depends on the duration of Tenancy as follows:

Duration of Tenancy Notice Period
Less than 6 months 28 days
6 or more months but less than 1 year 35 days
1 year or more but less than 2 years 42 days
2 or more years 56 days

So does the EA actually know what she's talking about? Can I just give my 28 days notice, chalk it up as a lesson learned and walk away (with both deposits)? I plan on giving Threshold and PSRA and PRTB a call in the morning also. Any insight would be appreciated!

AlanS181824

What a cūnt! I can't really see the issue with having a dog inside.. Hope you issue gets worked out.

djimi

It looks like the landlord has shot themselves in the foot here by putting together a lease agreement that is a hodge podge of different clauses taken from a fixed term lease and a part 4 tenancy. If the last part is written to the lease, and there are no futher caveats surrounding it (ie it doesnt specify that this section only applies after the fixed term has expired) then there is absolutely nothing that the landlord can do as they have given you a legal break clause in the contract.

I hope you didnt give them your CC details, did you?

fl4pj4ck

and in case that you did - cancel the card and get a new one

EKayI

Just off the phone with Threshold, found them very good, basically their advice was, because I have a copy of the ad from 2 websites stating Pets Allowed, this accounts for false advertising, and doesn't give them the right to start asking for more money/CC details etc. to allow a pet in. That being asked to sign in to all the extra clauses after the lease was signed (on a 'Pet Friendly' property) is not cool. That the amount of money they have taken from me in the space of a few weeks is absolutely ludicrous! And that the lease doesn't make any sense, that they can't go combining a fixed term & periodic lease to suit them.

So their recommendation was to let them know that I am giving my 28 days notice due it being in the lease, that they are to scrap my CC details immediately and return both deposits, and if they disagree that I have a very strong case to refer to the PRTB anyway, so it's in their benefit to just agree and re advertise the property correctly this time!

djimi wrote: »

I hope you didnt give them your CC details, did you?

Unfortunately I did, I didn't part with the CVV2 number though, but for piece of mind I think I will request a replacement card anyway.

djimi wrote: »

It looks like the landlord has shot themselves in the foot here by putting together a lease agreement that is a hodge podge of different clauses taken from a fixed term lease and a part 4 tenancy. If the last part is written to the lease, and there are no futher caveats surrounding it (ie it doesnt specify that this section only applies after the fixed term has expired) then there is absolutely nothing that the landlord can do as they have given you a legal break clause in the contract.

There are no further caveats in the lease, it just states

THIS AGREEMENT is made on the date specified above BETWEEN the Landlord and the Tenant(s) and includes all the covenants and conditions together with the First, Second and Third Schedules.

5.1 Termination or continuation of this Tenancy Agreement by the Landlord or Tenant may only be made under the provisions of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

Details are contained in the Second Schedule of this Tenancy Agreement.

And the the second schedule says

7. SECOND SCHEDULE

RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004

...

7. The Tenant may terminate this Tenancy Agreement at any time without stating the grounds by serving written notice on the Landlord. The Notice Period for such a termination by the Tenant depends on the duration of Tenancy as follows:

Duration of Tenancy Notice Period
Less than 6 months 28 days
6 or more months but less than 1 year 35 days
1 year or more but less than 2 years 42 days
2 or more years 56 days


8. On expiration of this Tenancy Agreement the tenancy may continue as follows:

· for a fixed term, by mutual agreement
· a further Part 4 Tenancy, by mutual agreement

· in the absence of any formal agreement to continue after the 4 Year Cycle, the tenancy will continue as a periodic month-to-month under the original terms and conditions of the Agreement.

Copies of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 may be purchased from the Government Publications
Office, Sun Alliance House, Molesworth Street, Dublin 2.

Thargor

Give them the credit card details, ring up Mastercard or whoever and say you lost your card, new one arrives 3-4 days later. Worst that will happen is they find out somehow and you'll lose your deposit and probably not even that as long as he's a good dog and doesnt stink the place up or damage the furniture.

djimi

Im not entirely sure what they mean by first schedule, second schedule etc, but to me that reads like it might mean first schedule is the duration of the fixed term lease and second schedule covers what happens when the lease expires. That being the case, the termination clause might not actually apply at the moment. It might be worth getting the lease checked over by someone who can offer legal advice (can Citizens Information do this?) and see what they think. Its hard to tell from just seeing snippets in isolation.

EKayI

Hi djimi, the lease is basically this (http://www.irishlandlord.com/documents/l/Lease%20irishlandlord.pdf) except they changed the first page, item 1. to read "This is a fixed term lease" and put "12 months," in front of "(d)TERM: Periodic Month-To-Month Tenancy Agreement, 4 Year Cycle." Everything else pretty much reads exactly the same, maybe the odd word different here or there. What are your thoughts?

djimi

I think the landlord/EA doesnt know their arse from their elbow if Im honest! They have taken a part 4 tenancy agreement (non-fixed term lease) and basically written 12 months at the start. There are clauses in there which would not be in a standard fixed term lease (such as allow the tenant to terminate with given notice) and indeed some which are not even legal (the section that allows the landlord to terminate for any reason in the first 6 months does not apply to a fixed term lease). Id still be inclined to get it looked over if possible so you are absolutely sure where you stand (Im no expert and am in no way offering you legal advice) but it looks to me like the landlords/EAs ignorance of tenancy law has given you a pretty watertight way of terminating the lease legally.

The_Morrigan

djimi wrote: »

Im not entirely sure what they mean by first schedule, second schedule etc, but to me that reads like it might mean first schedule is the duration of the fixed term lease and second schedule covers what happens when the lease expires. That being the case, the termination clause might not actually apply at the moment. It might be worth getting the lease checked over by someone who can offer legal advice (can Citizens Information do this?) and see what they think. Its hard to tell from just seeing snippets in isolation.

Typically in legal documents you'll have a standard template document referring to schedules. The schedules are then attached at the back and they could contain the property details, inventory etc.

djimi

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Typically in legal documents you'll have a standard template document referring to schedules. The schedules are then attached at the back and they could contain the property details, inventory etc.

Ah okay. Yeah it makes more sense now that I see the document in full. I just wasnt sure what it meant when I saw the clauses in isolation.

EKayI

Quick update - just off the phone with both PSRA and PRTB.

PSRA's take on this is they can't have any say on the lease etc. and can only take control of deposits if they haven't moved hands from EA to LL yet, but they said I can make a complaint on the EA advertising the property as Pets Allowed when in fact it wasn't and they can hit them for that, obviously this wont get me out of the lease, but might be enough to give her a push to admit wrongness and call it a day on this whole debacle! I know if I was in her shoes I'd rather wrap it up than go through the PSRA's complaints process ..

PRTB's take was that it sounds like I am in my right to give 28 days notice and expect all deposits back in full, and to make a complaint to them if my deposits are being withheld at the end of the tenancy.

So it seems like there's light at the end of the tunnel, I'm just a few grand out of pocket until I get there!