Co Funding

Conmaicne Mara

Hearing some worrying talk this evening regarding co funding, or rather a lack of monies to fund it.

I would urge anyone in receipt of Pillar 2 payments to either directly contact your local Government TD's or your favoured farming lobby of choice.

We're meeting our local Gov TD tomorrow evening.

Don't sit on your hands for this one.

just do it

I never got my head around this Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 funding. What is covered by pillar 2? Schemes like REPS/ DAS ?

Conmaicne Mara

just do it wrote: »

I never got my head around this Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 funding. What is covered by pillar 2? Schemes like REPS/ DAS ?

DAS, AEOS, REPS, not entirely sure what else to be honest but that's more than enough to start with.

All the fluffy talk regarding Pillar 2 during CAP was just that. The problem with Pillar 2 always has been it's not secure like Pillar 1.

Our Govt have to fund something like 47% of P2 so as to be able to draw down the 53% balance from the EU.

What I hear is our Govt haven't the money for the 47%.

Now, the way I read that is they'd rather spend that 47% money elsewhere and I think that's false economics and will also be hugely damaging to FG in particular.

Most of that P2 money probably goes to small fries like me, and I spend 100% of that money in this economy.

This is REPS all over again just on a bigger scale on the cock up level.

I'd like to know how many farmers who went out of REPS signed on for Farm Assist? Point being the REPS money was also part funded by EU money just like P2. So how many more farmers will be looking for 100% Irish funded Farm Assist IF P2 co funding fails to materialise.

On the upside, if it doesn't materialise they will have pretty much removed any stick they had to beat me with. So I shall run as many sheep as I see fit, where I like when I like

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

DAS, AEOS, REPS, not entirely sure what else to be honest but that's more than enough to start with.

All the fluffy talk regarding Pillar 2 during CAP was just that. The problem with Pillar 2 always has been it's not secure like Pillar 1.

Our Govt have to fund something like 47% of P2 so as to be able to draw down the 53% balance from the EU.

What I hear is our Govt haven't the money for the 47%.

Now, the way I read that is they'd rather spend that 47% money elsewhere and I think that's false economics and will also be hugely damaging to FG in particular.

Most of that P2 money probably goes to small fries like me, and I spend 100% of that money in this economy.

This is REPS all over again just on a bigger scale on the cock up level.

I'd like to know how many farmers who went out of REPS signed on for Farm Assist? Point being the REPS money was also part funded by EU money just like P2. So how many more farmers will be looking for 100% Irish funded Farm Assist IF P2 co funding fails to materialise.

On the upside, if it doesn't materialise they will have pretty much removed any stick they had to beat me with. So I shall run as many sheep as I see fit, where I like when I like

Met one of them tonight and another on Monday......how do you get through to them that it's a net gain to the country of €300 million per year. I know they have to put up another €300 million to match it, but they can't seem to see that they'll get that back in taxes

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

Met one of them tonight and another on Monday......how do you get through to them that it's a net gain to the country of €300 million per year. I know they have to put up another €300 million to match it, but they can't seem to see that they'll get that back in taxes

that's my thinking on it too. get the lads and ladies out to the tds offices, people who they don't meet from one end of the dail term to another to explain what losing P2 will mean to them, and more importantly what it means to their vote. familiarity breeds contempt, the people tds meet each week are being ignored.

supersean1999

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

that's my thinking on it too. get the lads and ladies out to the tds offices, people who they don't meet from one end of the dail term to another to explain what losing P2 will mean to them, and more importantly what it means to their vote. familiarity breeds contempt, the people tds meet each week are being ignored.

Ill be ringing one. And i wont be holding back.

Sharpshooter82

Anyone in the midlands should get on to willie penrose, good man and he is on some agricultural sub committee of the oireachtas

rancher

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

Anyone in the midlands should get on to willie penrose, good man and he is on some agricultural sub committee of the oireachtas

Met him last night, I meet him a lot and as you say he's very good on agri issues but TDs need to be plagued on the importance of this issue and it was never more important for farmers who have severely cut by the last few budgets to see their TDs, as CM said they're used to me, so it would be no harm for a good few farmers to see Willie.
I tried to impress on him that the loss of REPs 4 will trigger a lot of farmers into farm assist

Sharpshooter82

rancher wrote: »

Met him last night, I meet him a lot and as you say he's very good on agri issues but TDs need to be plagued on the importance of this issue and it was never more important for farmers who have severely cut by the last few budgets to see their TDs, as CM said they're used to me, so it would be no harm for a good few farmers to see Willie.
I tried to impress on him that the loss of REPs 4 will trigger a lot of farmers into farm assist

Yeah in fairness that man does a lot and is a man of his word, which can be rare these days

Pharaoh1

We can and should lobby of course but do we need to prepare ourselves for a future where the level of funding for Pillar 2 stuff will be negligble?

Apart from DAS we have seen everything else either abolished or on the way out (no new AEOS for example).
Again apart from DAS there is very little left - things like the new genomics scheme and BTAP which is mickey mouse money compared to the REPS outlay when it was at its peak.
The loss of REPS must be having a massive impact especially on those mid sized full time farmers who would have had sizeable payments but the income threshold for Farm Assist is very low now and all the disregards are gone.
I was always of the opinion that REPS should never have been abolished it should have been continued with reduced payments and access to it restricted to those who really needed it using whatever funding (including co-funding) was available.
In fairness (and no politician is going to tell you straight) the thinking is that the way to address very low farm incomes is through things like Farm Assist and other work schemes RSS etc...

Bringing back big money (even with co-funding) schemes where large numbers of relatively high income full time farmers as well as part timers with well paid off farm employment hoover up significant amounts of money due to their higher acerage is something I can't see happening again.

Mairead McGuinness more or less said as much recently


http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/macra-speakers-pull-no-punches-29706512.html

just do it

From the national economic perspective regardless of how it's distributed, it's a lost opportunity to bring money into the economy that won't come into Ireland otherwise.

What was Ireland's position on Pillar 2 funding during the CAP negotiations?

just do it

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Mairead McGuinness more or less said as much recently

What that article quotes her as saying is

She warned that growing budgetary pressures within the EU meant Irish farmers could not count on the same level of financial support from the CAP as they enjoyed in the past.

That is a different issue to this current government's position to getting the most out of what ever co-funding money is currently available. I thought from your post that the MEP had indicated the current thinking is farm assist rather than pillar 2.

Conmaicne Mara

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

We can and should lobby of course but do we need to prepare ourselves for a future where the level of funding for Pillar 2 stuff will be negligble?

Apart from DAS we have seen everything else either abolished or on the way out (no new AEOS for example).
Again apart from DAS there is very little left - things like the new genomics scheme and BTAP which is mickey mouse money compared to the REPS outlay when it was at its peak.
The loss of REPS must be having a massive impact especially on those mid sized full time farmers who would have had sizeable payments but the income threshold for Farm Assist is very low now and all the disregards are gone.
I was always of the opinion that REPS should never have been abolished it should have been continued with reduced payments and access to it restricted to those who really needed it using whatever funding (including co-funding) was available.
In fairness (and no politician is going to tell you straight) the thinking is that the way to address very low farm incomes is through things like Farm Assist and other work schemes RSS etc...

Bringing back big money (even with co-funding) schemes where large numbers of relatively high income full time farmers as well as part timers with well paid off farm employment hoover up significant amounts of money due to their higher acerage is something I can't see happening again.

Mairead McGuinness more or less said as much recently


http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/macra-speakers-pull-no-punches-29706512.html

I dunno about Mairead, I get the impression she's big farmer central and if you're not a big farmer, goodbye & good luck to you. Maybe that's unfair on her but it's the impression I got through CAP from her. I wonder how many FG members in more disadvantaged areas are singing from her hymn sheet? There will be significant levels of hatred displayed towards FG for years to come from farmers who are in receipt of DAS etc if the plug does indeed get pulled.

Joan Burton said a while back that Social Welfare was like a stimulus to the economy. If Co Funding is pulled, does it then follow that this Government regards farmers in receipt of Pillar 2 funding as lesser than people on Social Welfare? It would seem so to me, as Social Welfare is 100% Irish money, while Co Funding brings money into the economy.

rancher

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

We can and should lobby of course but do we need to prepare ourselves for a future where the level of funding for Pillar 2 stuff will be negligble?

Apart from DAS we have seen everything else either abolished or on the way out (no new AEOS for example).
Again apart from DAS there is very little left - things like the new genomics scheme and BTAP which is mickey mouse money compared to the REPS outlay when it was at its peak.
The loss of REPS must be having a massive impact especially on those mid sized full time farmers who would have had sizeable payments but the income threshold for Farm Assist is very low now and all the disregards are gone.
I was always of the opinion that REPS should never have been abolished it should have been continued with reduced payments and access to it restricted to those who really needed it using whatever funding (including co-funding) was available.
In fairness (and no politician is going to tell you straight) the thinking is that the way to address very low farm incomes is through things like Farm Assist and other work schemes RSS etc...

Bringing back big money (even with co-funding) schemes where large numbers of relatively high income full time farmers as well as part timers with well paid off farm employment hoover up significant amounts of money due to their higher acerage is something I can't see happening again.

Mairead McGuinness more or less said as much recently


http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/macra-speakers-pull-no-punches-29706512.html

Great idea and then they'll make it impossible for farmers to qualify like they did with all the self employed people who went out of business in the last five years.
There is 300 million/yr available in Brussels for us, that can only be directed to the rural economy in Ireland, and it's very short sighted of our government if they don't take advantage of it.
Any matching funding they put in will come back in taxes in the same year

Birdnuts

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

Anyone in the midlands should get on to willie penrose, good man and he is on some agricultural sub committee of the oireachtas

He seems like one of the few good eggs in this government - hopefully he can pin Coveney down on this instead of the vague waffle I had to wade through on the matter from the Minister when he was questioned in the Seanad recently. Look at the link below to see what I mean.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2013102300024

Conmaicne Mara

Oh Lord no, I read 18 pages of a commonage debate the last week, I nearly lost the will to live by the end of it.

Birdnuts

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Oh Lord no, I read 18 pages of a commonage debate the last week, I nearly lost the will to live by the end of it.

My wife takes ages to get to sleep so I might print a hard copy for her:pac:

Conmaicne Mara

Don't have any good news from tonight really. Local Govt TD was confident co funding would happen. At the same time the money for the Irish portion hasn't been found. Draw from that what you will.

merryberry

just do it wrote: »

I never got my head around this Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 funding. What is covered by pillar 2? Schemes like REPS/ DAS ?

Click on link for a recently published CAP 2007-2013 Pillar 2 (i.e. Rural Development Programme) summary.

http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/rural-area-economics/briefs/pdf/10_en.pdf

Figure 2 on the link lists the various Rural Development Programme measures. These measures were delivered through the various rural schemes throughout the EU e.g. in Ireland, measure 112 was the installation aid; measure 211/ 212 is the DAS; measure 214 was the REPS Scheme; measures starting with digit 3 is the LEADER grant programme.

There has been little promise, discussion or communication from DAFF about the Pillar 2 (2014-2020) and I wouldn’t hold my breath on the Irish RDP schemes commencing 2014. Committing our co-funding to the RDP bargain is going to be a major problem. For example, the LEADER programme, which didn’t commence until 2009 (mid-way thru the RDP) almost collapsed had it not been for a concession on the exchequer matching finance commitment.

20silkcut

Wouldn't it be great if ya could just make money by farming.
If you got a fair price for your produce.
Than all this begging and scraping and wondering and worrying.
If you could put on your wellingtons go out in your field and work like our grandfathers and ancestors did.
We really are stupid the way we have allowed all control to be taken out of our hands by the big swinging mickeys.
Very very stupid.
Landlordism ended 150 years ago but the vacuum they left has been well and truly filled by other bloodsuckers.

Conmaicne Mara

20silkcut wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great if ya could just make money by farming.
If you got a fair price for your produce.
Than all this begging and scraping and wondering and worrying.
If you could put on your wellingtons go out in your field and work like our grandfathers and ancestors did.
We really are stupid the way we have allowed all control to be taken out of our hands by the big swinging mickeys.
Very very stupid.
Landlordism ended 150 years ago but the vacuum they left has been well and truly filled by other bloodsuckers.

It would but we'd be undercut by countries outside of the EU. If there was (more?) protectionism of EU food products, then those countries outside the EU would be putting tariffs on EU exports.

But yeah, I do agree with the spirit of your post, would much prefer to be master of my own destiny. Any income created by the pen can be just as quickly crossed out by it.