Don't touch that drone

Gatling

Taken from the Washington times
After Iran sent up a jet to intercept an American drone in international airspace ,


http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/19/us-pilot-scares-iranians-top-gun-worthy-stunt-you-/

Horse84

Gatling wrote: »

Taken from the Washington times
After Iran sent up a jet to intercept an American drone in international airspace ,


http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/19/us-pilot-scares-iranians-top-gun-worthy-stunt-you-/

If that is true, it's utter recklessness on behalf of that cowboy pilot. What if the 2 jets had collided? Something that could very easily have happened. Wars have started over less.

Did he take a Polaroid and give him the 'bird' as well?

sonny jim bob jones

Horse84 wrote: »

If that is true, it's utter recklessness on behalf of that cowboy pilot. What if the 2 jets had collided? Something that could very easily have happened. Wars have started over less.

Did he take a Polaroid and give him the 'bird' as well?

So the US should do nothing in this situation...

Maybe the cowboy F-4 pilot should leave flying to the big boys.

sonny jim bob jones

Horse84 wrote: »

If that is true, it's utter recklessness on behalf of that cowboy pilot. What if the 2 jets had collided? Something that could very easily have happened. Wars have started over less.

Did he take a Polaroid and give him the 'bird' as well?

He didn't get a chance the Iranian bugged out because he **** his pants.

Zillah

Horse84 wrote: »

If that is true, it's utter recklessness on behalf of that cowboy pilot. What if the 2 jets had collided? Something that could very easily have happened. Wars have started over less.

Did he take a Polaroid and give him the 'bird' as well?

The Iranian jet was on an intercept course in international airspace with a US aircraft. That is a very hostile move and the US was entitled to respond. The F-22 is the most advanced fighter jet in existence -it likely would not even show up on Iranian radar - whereas the Iranian was flying an F4 Phantom, which was first commissioned in 1960. The US pilot wanted to demonstrate to the Phantom pilot just how outclassed he was so as to dissuade him from pursuing the showdown any further. It's a damn cocky move but it's better than shooting at him or letting him engage the drone.

Jawgap

Old news is old.......it got some coverage at the time it happened.

The F22s were escorting the drone because in March two Sukhoi Su-25 attack planes operated by the Pasdaran (the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution) attempted to shoot down an American MQ-1 flying a routine surveillance flight in international airspace some 16 miles off Iran, the interception of the unmanned aircraft failed.

I'll leave others to decide which was the more aggressive move - the US pilot spooking the F4s or the Iranian pilot shooting at something non-Iranian in international air space.

After the attempted interception in March, the US DoD decided to escort the drones involved in intelligence surveillance reconnaissance missions with fighter jets (either F-18 Hornets from the USS John C. Stennis) or F-22 Raptors like those deployed to Al Dhafra in the UAE.

I'd say the move was a fairly clever pre-emptive maneuver to prevent the Iranians loosing off a couple of missiles AND then getting the shock of their lives when the unseen escorts responded - it might have been a cowboy move and it could have been handled more sensibly, but it probably saved the situation from getting out of control.

The really interesting question - which the USAF have yet to answer - is how did the F22 remain stealthy - they can't have used their radar which suggests they were vectored to the Iranians by an E-2.......and if there was an E-2 in the area, why didn't it broadcast a message to the F-4s to clear off?

Maybe the Yanks just wanted to teach the Iranians a lesson to show them just how outclassed they are (in the air, anyway)

riffmongous

What is the proof that the first incident actually happened over international waters though? From what I can see the Pentagon spokeman said it and therefore it was so, is there any independent evidence in these cases?

goldie fish

There never is.

Jawgap

Apologies got my incidents mixed up!

About a year ago two Su-25s tried to shoot down an MQ-1 using their guns. they failed, which probably says as much as you need to know about Pasdaran air-to-air gunnery, although in their defence the Su-25 is a ground attack aircraft........but it is stable at low speeds and might not be that bad a choice if you want to knock out a slow moving drone from the air. The event was caught on the drones cameras but I'm not sure if the Pentagon have ever released the footage.

There's also a suggestion that this wasn't a planned intercept as the aircraft broke off after a couple of passes. They may have been on a training mission and were on their way home when the decided (or were directed) to have a bit of free practice at the potential expense of the USAF.

In March this year then another attempt was made to intercept an MQ-1. This time the the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force had a go with some some F-4s and were warned off by the escorts. They broke off the intercept some 16nm from the drone. It's not clear if the escorts were F22s or F18s.

Then we have the third incident which is the subject of this thread.

In the first (Nov 2012) incident, I'm guessing that unless the US DoD actually publish the drone's telemetry then some people will continue to be skeptical that the incident took place in international airspace. So no point in arguing that it probably did take place there

In the other two, I'm guessing even the Yanks wouldn't be mad enough to send manned aircraft into Iranian airspace to escort a slow moving drone. So I think it's reasonable to assume they were in international airspace.

Stovepipe

If the drone was surveilling Iran, which it is probably perfectly capable of doing, then it was not as squeaky clean as it seems. Claiming the moral high ground whilst eavesdropping is more than a bit rich. Quite frankly, what kind of response did they expect? Apart from that, there were numerous shootdowns and near-shootdowns of US aircraft during the Cold War, when they probed Soviet and Chinese airspace, so this is nothing new.

regards
Stovepipe

Captain Chaos

Jawgap wrote: »

The really interesting question - which the USAF have yet to answer - is how did the F22 remain stealthy - they can't have used their radar which suggests they were vectored to the Iranians by an E-2.......and if there was an E-2 in the area, why didn't it broadcast a message to the F-4s to clear off?

The F-22 can use it's radar and remain undetected. It's AESA has LPI (low probability of intercept) features that make it very hard for an enemies radar warning receiver to detect that it is being tracked especially on in an old fighter like the Phantom.

When a pair of F-22 are intercepting a target one can stand off and track at long range with its AESA and silently data link target info to the other F-22 that can close on the target with it's radar turned off. It can even data link targeting information for a blind long range missile shot. F-22s can even be data linked radar info from some ground tracking stations if they are so equiped with the F-22s FDL as F-22s were not fitted with the more common Link 16 for some reason.

E-2s are USN and will generally only deal with USN fighters, very rarely will they vector in USAF fighters unless there is nothing else around. E-3s are USAF AWACS. This was a case in point in the '91 Gulf War. USAF E-3s would vector their own F-15s onto targets over USN F-14s that were in some cases in better positions for the intercepts and this annoyed USN F-14 pilots quite a bit at the time.

Jawgap

True, but Liveleak discusses the E-2 involvement and it's not unheard of for them to work together

tac foley

Stovepipe wrote: »

If the drone was surveilling Iran, which it is probably perfectly capable of doing, then it was not as squeaky clean as it seems. Claiming the moral high ground whilst eavesdropping is more than a bit rich. Quite frankly, what kind of response did they expect? Apart from that, there were numerous shootdowns and near-shootdowns of US aircraft during the Cold War, when they probed Soviet and Chinese airspace, so this is nothing new.

regards
Stovepipe

The US stated that their UAV was not IN Iranian airspace.

tac

Five Lamps

sonny jim bob jones wrote: »

So the US should do nothing in this situation...

Maybe the cowboy F-4 pilot should leave flying to the big boys.

Clap on the back to the US for correctly identifying an Iranian fighter jet instead of a passenger jet.

The article fails to state where the drone was coming from or headed to other than where the intercept took place.

If the engagement was in International airspace then don't the Iranians have as much right to fly about there as well?

Jawgap

Five Lamps wrote: »

Clap on the back to the US for correctly identifying an Iranian fighter jet instead of a passenger jet.

The article fails to state where the drone was coming from or headed to other than where the intercept took place.

If the engagement was in International airspace then don't the Iranians have as much right to fly about there as well?

Of course they do, and they were perfectly free to ignore the request of the F-22 pilot, who seems to have lived up to his callsign. However, there doesn't seem to be any mention of what they were carrying when he checked out their weapons load - maybe they were flying clean.

The shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655 was a terrible incident and bears absolutely no comparison in quality or scale to what was essentially a very minor spat.

Fred Cohen

Any reason why the Iranians shouldn't be in international airspace off their own coast.?

The reason I ask, is that, looking at a map of the area I can't seem to find the USA anywhere on it.

Local-womanizer

Fred Cohen wrote: »

Any reason why the Iranians shouldn't be in international airspace off their own coast.?

The reason I ask, is that, looking at a map of the area I can't seem to find the USA anywhere on it.

I think the issue arising was the fact that the Iranians taking too much of an interest in the US drone that was also in international airspace.