Trouble on my dads farm

kerinsp

Hello,
I live beside my dads farm. A few days ago I noticed some horses in his field. Turns out he let a guy keep a few horses on his land. It transpires the renter put more horses in, never paid any money and allegedly lives in a halting site!

We are all very worried now here, my dad is going to ask him tomorrow to take them back and very sorry for the inconvenience. Let's hope it works out without any trouble.

Has anyone experince of this? How do we get out of this mess? Im very worried about what could happen.

Thank you
P

Lurching

This guy is obviously taking advantage of your fathers good nature.

I'd suggest making the excuse that your father wants to move other stock in to the field.

Sharpshooter82

Lurching wrote: »

This guy is obviously taking advantage of your fathers good nature.

I'd suggest making the excuse that your father wants to move other stock in to the field.

i agree approach the man first and see how ya get on

49801

Oh dear.
Might be no harm to talk to your local Garda.... Not for Garda to get involved straight away. That may not be he right approach at this stage. but they may have some good advice on how to handle it and know the persons in question and how best to deal with them.

You do need to deal with this quickly!!!

bbam

Not Much help but is agree with dealing with it quickly. The longer they are settled in the harder it will be.

And yes, have a quick heads up with the guards that things aren't quite right.

kerinsp

From what I've heard the man and his family are well known by the guards. He has horses in for maybe 5 days now so it's still early stages. We are going to tell him nicely first that there has been a mistake and could he move them by Friday.

If he doesn't we will somehow have to let him know nicely that they will be penned in. Would the RSPCA take them if it comes to it or a pound or something?

tony007

kerinsp wrote: »

From what I've heard the man and his family are well known by the guards. He has horses in for maybe 5 days now so it's still early stages. We are going to tell him nicely first that there has been a mistake and could he move them by Friday.

If he doesn't we will somehow have to let him know nicely that they will be penned in. Would the RSPCA take them if it comes to it or a pound or something?

Probably the best route to take would be to say that ye need the field for your own stock.

bob charles

most of the horse owners arent too bad, talk to them and even offer a few bales of hay as a bounty supplied by local hay dealer.

REBEL COUNTY1

You don't ask them to move their horses u tell them! If ur father isn't the type to deal with "people from halting sites" with confidence then get someone who is.

Not discriminating but it's their nature and culture, you need to tell them immediately that you need the land by Saturday as your putting livestock in there!! Insist on it and tell them it's needed. And when they tell you that they've no where else to move them and they'll have them out in a week (and they will tell you this) then you explain you've the land rented to another farmer and he's gone mad that there's horses on his land and they're to be gone by Friday.

You don't need to be aggressive, just assertive and don't apologise for anything, you've done nothing wrong!! They will take u for a ride if u let them.

kerinsp

He arrived at my dads farm looking for hay, said he would buy 2 bales and then asked dad could he use the field. At least the horses are worth something to him and wouldn't want them in a pound or let loose (don't think we could do that). Hopefully dad can reason with him tomorrow that their deal no longer suits and to take them away but I have my doubts.

Sharpshooter82

kerinsp wrote: »

He arrived at my dads farm looking for hay, said he would buy 2 bales and then asked dad could he use the field. At least the horses are worth something to him and wouldn't want them in a pound or let loose (don't think we could do that). Hopefully dad can reason with him tomorrow that their deal no longer suits and to take them away but I have my doubts.

best of luck with it anyways but dont let them loose anyways

Figerty

Don't go jumping to conclusions yet. He asked to put in the horses. You think he has more in than agreed. Perhaps there is a difference in understanding; I'm being generous here.
I had a family member let in horses and there was no problems. The agreed to have the horses in, clean out a paddock and then remove. The snooty neighbours weren't to happy but that was a problems with them
The fella that was of the travelling variety was known to the guards, but sure aren't most of them! (sweeping generalisation I know:D.

Anyway, the guy was good to his word. Horses were taken out when agreed. Don't go jumping the gun to soon but don't be taken for a ride either.

Driveby Dogboy

how long was he planning on letting them use the field in the first place, and how many horses?

Sharpshooter82

kerinsp wrote: »

He arrived at my dads farm looking for hay, said he would buy 2 bales and then asked dad could he use the field. At least the horses are worth something to him and wouldn't want them in a pound or let loose (don't think we could do that). Hopefully dad can reason with him tomorrow that their deal no longer suits and to take them away but I have my doubts.

best of luck with it anyways lad but dont let them loose

Red_Dwarf

You could always say you have a Gun club looking to use your land from Friday onwards

Rho b

I don't know if this would work in your fathers case as I don't know if he keeps horses himself. If he does not then tell him to tell the guy that he needs to get the horses removed as he does not have horses registered on or been kept on his farm and that it WILL impact negatively on his SFP.

DK man

Tell him that the land was designated for set a side and that you just got word that you are getting an inspection from the department of agriculture next week and you will need to have the land cleared ASAP otherwise you might lose your payments.

1chippy

you dont have to tell them anthing bar it doesnt suit and to remove them.
why anyone gets mixed up with or has any dealings with those sort really astounds me. 99% of the time it ends in hardship. dont be intimidated by them.

scwazrh

Did he pay any money even for the agreed horses?

Rho b

1chippy wrote: »

you dont have to tell them anthing bar it doesnt suit and to remove them.
why anyone gets mixed up with or has any dealings with those sort really astounds me. 99% of the time it ends in hardship. dont be intimidated by them.

In fairness that is easier said than done. Some people are and can be intimidating and there is no point in crying after the milk has been spilled.
Its far easier to manufacture an excuse so that they remove the animals without any ill will.

timmy4u2

kerinsp wrote: »

Hello,
I live beside my dads farm. A few days ago I noticed some horses in his field. Turns out he let a guy keep a few horses on his land. It transpires the renter put more horses in, never paid any money and allegedly lives in a halting site!

We are all very worried now here, my dad is going to ask him tomorrow to take them back and very sorry for the inconvenience. Let's hope it works out without any trouble.

Has anyone experince of this? How do we get out of this mess? Im very worried about what could happen.

Thank you
P

Lets look at this bit by bit.
Your dad had an agreement that this horse owner could put a certain number of horses on the land. HOW MANY?
How many extra did he put in?
You refer to the horse guy as a renter who didnt pay the agreed rental in advance. Was a price agreed and was it to be paid in advance? Otherwise a promise in the future could go on for ever.
That fact of the matter is that a spoken agreement is as binding as a written contract so your first way out is through breach of contract. If he digs in you are looking at a lengthy process.

I suppose you could argue that there is a breach of contract, he has been informed of that and to keep them on the land is trespass.

If trespassing you cannot have them impounded under the act when you know who owns them. It an old act.you can impound only when you do not know the owner.

If things drag on and on you can only be caught for a year because rental of land for over a year has to be in writing.
Having said all of that you do have a way out.

These horses have to be chipped and the owner has to have a herd number. If he does not you have good grounds to have them removed as they are illegal and illegally on the land.

And having said all of that have an honest chat with him. It took some effort for him to bring those horses there so give him a particular time frame in which to have them removed.you can report them to the dept of agri if he is not cooperating and let him know that they will be inspected with a view to prosecuting him.
All opinions and not legal advice.

1chippy

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Lets look at this bit by bit.
Your dad had an agreement that this horse owner could put a certain number of horses on the land. HOW MANY?
How many extra did he put in?
You refer to the horse guy as a renter who didnt pay the agreed rental in advance. Was a price agreed and was it to be paid in advance? Otherwise a promise in the future could go on for ever.
That fact of the matter is that a spoken agreement is as binding as a written contract so your first way out is through breach of contract. If he digs in you are looking at a lengthy process.

I suppose you could argue that there is a breach of contract, he has been informed of that and to keep them on the land is trespass.

If trespassing you cannot have them impounded under the act when you know who owns them. It an old act.you can impound only when you do not know the owner.

If things drag on and on you can only be caught for a year because rental of land for over a year has to be in writing.
Having said all of that you do have a way out.

These horses have to be chipped and the owner has to have a herd number. If he does not you have good grounds to have them removed as they are illegal and illegally on the land.

And having said all of that have an honest chat with him. It took some effort for him to bring those horses there so give him a particular time frame in which to have them removed.you can report them to the dept of agri if he is not cooperating and let him know that they will be inspected with a view to prosecuting him.
All opinions and not legal advice.

I dont think the boys he is dealing with could give 2 s***s if you sent all the solicitors letters, court orders or whether the animals are chipped or not. if it was an ordinary joe, the department, co.co and gardai know that they will be able to get up on you. with travellers the majority of the time its not worth the hassle. by the time you spend heaps on the solicitors and pull half your hair out; the horses will have had their fill of your grass and their owners hiaces will have everything else thats lying around. tell them to get them out. dont let it drag on

timmy4u2

1chippy wrote: »

I dont think the boys he is dealing with could give 2 s***s if you sent all the solicitors letters, court orders or whether the animals are chipped or not. if it was an ordinary joe, the department, co.co and gardai know that they will be able to get up on you. with travellers the majority of the time its not worth the hassle. by the time you spend heaps on the solicitors and pull half your hair out; the horses will have had their fill of your grass and their owners hiaces will have everything else thats lying around. tell them to get them out. dont let it drag on

I did say talk to them. I did say it will take time.

I can assure you though that the last thing they would want is to have their horses taken away.
I have had to deal with them once or twice regarding their horses.
They are well up on the law now so to get the upper hand you need to be well up on the law also and to work within the law.

Boaty

There was land up on a hill over looking my town, there were horses owned by travellers on the land for 10 years and when the land came up for sale, they claimed squatters rights.

pburns

I have experience of something similar but I didn't invite them in. Horses were moved onto my land twice over the last 6 years unknownst to me. You need to nip this in the bud.

Firstly, check with the local Guards. Most of the guys with horses are harmless enough if you stand up to them BUT some aren't. I handled the lads on my land because the cops filled me in on their background but an uncle had similar problems and was told by Guards to let them look after it as the trespassers in that instance were dangerous.

Assuming they are not mad Fran n' Nidge types, your dad needs to step back from this. He won't be taken seriously by these guys at this stage - they think he's a soft touch. Someone (i.e. you) and maybe a brother/friend need to take over and lay down the law. Don't be abusive or emotional - just tell them you have a share in the land, you don't want horses there and give them a deadline of max 24 hrs to remove. If you bull**** them too much, they'll know you are afraid of them and use it against you.

Be nice but be v. v. firm. If it comes down to it you may have to consider pounding the horses but try avoid that if at all possible.

timmy4u2

Boaty wrote: »

There was land up on a hill over looking my town, there were horses owned by travellers on the land for 10 years and when the land came up for sale, they claimed squatters rights.

They might have claimed it but they would not have won the case notwithstanding the fact that adverse possession-squatters rights-cannot be claimed until 12 years have elapsed.

They would not have won the case because there is a supreme Court decision that states that you cannot gain adverse possession of land where your presence on the land was for the purpose c of grazing.
The case revolves around a case just outside Dublin where they wished to extend the Dart.
A similar guy was using the two small fields beside the disused track to graze his horses and refused to move claiming adverse possession.
The Supreme Court held that he did not have such a claim to the first field as it was used for grazing but he had built stables in the second field and he was successful with that field.

He was able to claim the possession also on the grounds that CIE and later iarann road Eireann was a semi state entity. You cannot claim adverse possession of state owned land because it is there fot the good of the citizens.

Rho b

timmy4u2 - I understood that in order to claim adverse possession you had to be able to clearly demonstrate that during the years that you occupied the land that you had maintained/improved it at your own cost?

timmy4u2

pburns wrote: »

I have experience of something similar but I didn't invite them in. Horses were moved onto my land twice over the last 6 years unknownst to me. You need to nip this in the bud.

Firstly, check with the local Guards. Most of the guys with horses are harmless enough if you stand up to them BUT some aren't. I handled the lads on my land because the cops filled me in on their background but an uncle had similar problems and was told by Guards to let them look after it as the trespassers in that instance were dangerous.

Assuming they are not mad Fran n' Nidge types, your dad needs to step back from this. He won't be taken seriously by these guys at this stage - they think he's a soft touch. Someone (i.e. you) and maybe a brother/friend need to take over and lay down the law. Don't be abusive or emotional - just tell them you have a share in the land, you don't want horses there and give them a deadline of max 24 hrs to remove. If you bull**** them too much, they'll know you are afraid of them and use it against you.

Be nice but be v. v. firm. If it comes down to it you may have to consider pounding the horses but try avoid that if at all possible.

There is a big difference between your scenario and that of the OP.
In your case they trespassed and you did not know them, you had good law on your side and you were entitled to have them impounded.
The OP invited them in, in what we are led to believe was a contract or promise of a contract.
Totally different setvof issues

timmy4u2

Rho b wrote: »

timmy4u2 - I understood that in order to claim adverse possession you had to be able to clearly demonstrate that during the years that you occupied the land that you had maintained/improved it at your own cost?

That can be part of it but used more so in land disputes between families, a different thing, of sorts.
The main ingredient is that you intended to permanently deprive the owner of the property.
That Supreme Court case is a case stated and all courts are obliged to abide by that ruling.
And remember that the courts will rarely award costs to either side in a land dispute.

Boaty

timmy4u2 wrote: »

They might have claimed it but they would not have won the case notwithstanding the fact that adverse possession-squatters rights-cannot be claimed until 12 years have elapsed.

They would not have won the case because there is a supreme Court decision that states that you cannot gain adverse possession of land where your presence on the land was for the purpose c of grazing.
The case revolves around a case just outside Dublin where they wished to extend the Dart.
A similar guy was using the two small fields beside the disused track to graze his horses and refused to move claiming adverse possession.
The Supreme Court held that he did not have such a claim to the first field as it was used for grazing but he had built stables in the second field and he was successful with that field.

He was able to claim the possession also on the grounds that CIE and later iarann road Eireann was a semi state entity. You cannot claim adverse possession of state owned land because it is there fot the good of the citizens.

That would make sense as the land is currently for sale, it seams like they just delayed the sale of the land as it had to go to court.

kerinsp

Thank you all for your advice, my dad rang him this morning and he said he would take them off the land on Saturday when he has some help.

I am hoping he is not spoofing but we will have them penned in for collection. We said the land needs to be clear of stock due to a planning decision and percolation test on Monday.

Here's hoping till Saturday

timmy4u2

kerinsp wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice, my dad rang him this morning and he said he would take them off the land on Saturday when he has some help.

I am hoping he is not spoofing but we will have them penned in for collection. We said the land needs to be clear of stock due to a planning decision and percolation test on Monday.

Here's hoping till Saturday

Lets hope that dialogue wins out and that there is no need for the John Wayne pundits

Burtonearny

Make sure to throw a lock on the gate once they're gone!

timmy4u2

Boaty wrote: »

That would make sense as the land is currently for sale, it seams like they just delayed the sale of the land as it had to go to court.

I would imagine so. They know the game and any extra months are a bonus to them and whereby costs are rarely awarded negotiation or an injunction is the most cost effective way

Sharpshooter82

kerinsp wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice, my dad rang him this morning and he said he would take them off the land on Saturday when he has some help.

I am hoping he is not spoofing but we will have them penned in for collection. We said the land needs to be clear of stock due to a planning decision and percolation test on Monday.

Here's hoping till Saturday

good to hear kerinsp

kerinsp

They took them away with a lot of giving out this morning at 9 o clock. Let's hope that's the end of it but all gates are locked!

I'll be having a pint tonight...
Thanks again

Sharpshooter82

kerinsp wrote: »

They took them away with a lot of giving out this morning at 9 o clock. Let's hope that's the end of it but all gates are locked!

I'll be having a pint tonight...
Thanks again

Good to hear and keep them locks on the gates for a while

timmy4u2

kerinsp wrote: »

They took them away with a lot of giving out this morning at 9 o clock. Let's hope that's the end of it but all gates are locked!

I'll be having a pint tonight...
Thanks again

You cannot blame them for giving out. I would not be too happy either in those circumstances.
Proves that dialogue should always be part of the first effort.
Had you taken the John Wayne approach they would most likely dug in and thn it would be a long haul.
Enjoy the pint, your inheritance is secure

bob charles

kerinsp wrote: »

They took them away with a lot of giving out this morning at 9 o clock. Let's hope that's the end of it but all gates are locked!

I'll be having a pint tonight...
Thanks again

Locks are never a good idea, remove the gates if no stock on the lad for awhile

Sharpshooter82

bob charles wrote: »

Locks are never a good idea, remove the gates if no stock on the lad for awhile

Interesting

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Locks are never a good idea, remove the gates if no stock on the lad for awhile

Years ago two local family's were sharing a well. Whqatever row erupted one of the women put a chain and lock on the pump. If she did the other one did exactly the same and in no time resolution was found;);)

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Locks are never a good idea, remove the gates if no stock on the lad for awhile

I'd say a man with your illustrious past has had stock on the lad more than once. Though I fail to see where you'd put a gate on it.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Though I fail to see where you'd put a gate on it.

this a young mans game nowadays if you dont know where the gate goes

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

this a young mans game nowadays if you dont know where the gate goes

I walked right into that one though with four junior freedoms knocking around some might say I should've been making better use of the gates:D:D.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

I walked right into that one though with four junior freedoms knocking around some might say I should've been making better use of the gates:D:D.

and they say people learn from their mistakes :rolleyes:

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

and they say people learn from their mistakes :rolleyes:

I'm just proving Einstein right.

sea12

kerinsp wrote: »

They took them away with a lot of giving out this morning at 9 o clock. Let's hope that's the end of it but all gates are locked!

I'll be having a pint tonight...
Thanks again

Good to hear that. I didn't think they'd come for them to be honest. Keep those gates locked!!!!