Hiring accountant for tax return submission

riveratom

Hey guys,

It's my first year of filing a tax return (via ROS), and all along I have been planning to have an accountant do this for me, since it's my first year.

Their fee seems ok, and it includes ad-hoc tax advice throughout the year.

What exactly do they do for their fee though? Is it literally just filling out the various fields on the form as I would do, and then filing it via ROS on my behalf?

Peterdalkey

In your case you are paying for their time, the ad-hoc advice, filling out the form correctly and using their expertise to know what is allowable and what is not and then dealing with the queries raised. There is no real rocket science involved and you could do it youerself provided you spent the time to learn all the guidlines etc.

jimmii

In the same boat as you. This was my first year it was actually a lot easier than I expected as there are so many help files to guide you through. I'll probably end up getting an accountant for it next year though! Have you thought about using that online service that has been advertising on TV for the last while?

riveratom

jimmii wrote: »

In the same boat as you. This was my first year it was actually a lot easier than I expected as there are so many help files to guide you through. I'll probably end up getting an accountant for it next year though! Have you thought about using that online service that has been advertising on TV for the last while?

Hey jimmii, cheers. I have seen that and checked it out online. Would be interested to hear if anyone on here has used it?

ssbob

Guys in my opinion speaking as an accountant(not a practice accountant) it is worth your while going and sitting down with a proffesional, most of my mates in practice will normally give the first meeting for free and lay out exactly what you will get for your fee including probably giving you some sound basic business advice up front.

The main thing I would say though is to do as much of the admin work yourself and don't go in with the shoebox full of receipts to the accountant, that's what will end up costing you!

riveratom

Agreed on all counts. Quality advice and consultation, and having someone on your side is worth its weight in gold. I even had the benefit of a free initial consultation earlier this year, which was very useful in clarifying things for me.

Gloomtastic!

If it's your personal tax return then paying an accountant €500 for 20 minutes work is not value for money. I believe there are some charging €200 or less but you need to find them.
(Imagine thinking paying someone €200 for 20 minutes work is a good deal!)

My advice. Register with ROS, find a cheap accountant, fill out their template, let them file your return this year. Next year replace all the figures from last year's return. You'll feel it's the best days work you've done in a long time!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've yet to meet an accountant that didn't disappoint......

Peterdalkey

OK let's have a " beat up on accountants" blitz here. I will start off with, someone once asked my father how many children he had and he replied " four alive and two accountants" .... This is 100% true!


I am not one of the two, but I am a genuine fan of quality acountants.. But they are an easy target, tooooo easy to resist!

Gloomtastic!

Well my father wanted me to be an accountant!

ssbob

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

If it's your personal tax return then paying an accountant €500 for 20 minutes work is not value for money. I believe there are some charging €200 or less but you need to find them.
(Imagine thinking paying someone €200 for 20 minutes work is a good deal!)

My advice. Register with ROS, find a cheap accountant, fill out their template, let them file your return this year. Next year replace all the figures from last year's return. You'll feel it's the best days work you've done in a long time!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've yet to meet an accountant that didn't disappoint......

Your not just paying for the form filling, your paying for their knowledge and advice, I agree some are lazy but some will point out savings to you in area's you may not see like the ability to claim VAT back on certain items or managing your capital allowances. Do you think everyone is going to keep up to date with the latest changes in IT/CGT/VAT/DIRT/Allowances etc???

riveratom

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

If it's your personal tax return then paying an accountant €500 for 20 minutes work is not value for money. I believe there are some charging €200 or less but you need to find them.
(Imagine thinking paying someone €200 for 20 minutes work is a good deal!)

My advice. Register with ROS, find a cheap accountant, fill out their template, let them file your return this year. Next year replace all the figures from last year's return. You'll feel it's the best days work you've done in a long time!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've yet to meet an accountant that didn't disappoint......

Do you think it's good for the words 'cheap' and 'accountant' to appear in the same sentence?

riveratom

ssbob wrote: »

Your not just paying for the form filling, your paying for their knowledge and advice, I agree some are lazy but some will point out savings to you in area's you may not see like the ability to claim VAT back on certain items or managing your capital allowances. Do you think everyone is going to keep up to date with the latest changes in IT/CGT/VAT/DIRT/Allowances etc???

Yeah exactly, it's not as if I just met him and it's a case of handing him a file and he just goes and taps numbers and text into a computer. Not paying for someone to paint an outdoor wall here.

ssbob

riveratom wrote: »

Yeah exactly, it's not as if I just met him and it's a case of handing him a file and he just goes and taps numbers and text into a computer. Not paying for someone to paint an outdoor wall here.

The old adage "You get what you pay for" comes to mind;)

lakill Farm

ssbob wrote: »

The old adage "You get what you pay for" comes to mind;)

Not true. Some accountancy practices have lower running costs than others and pass on the saving to clients. I know for sure thats what we do.

Gloomtastic!

ssbob wrote: »

Your not just paying for the form filling

Oh yes I was, €400 + VA bloody T!

ssbob

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Oh yes I was, €400 + VA bloody T!

You see you might say that but I don't know your individual case, for example:

• Did you do up all the spreadsheets for the accountant including your P60 if you are also a PAYE earner showing total income/outgoings?
• Did you calculate Capital Allowances yourself?
• Did you go through the line items and pull out what is allowable and not allowable?

VAT is irrelevant too by the way if you are registered?

Peterdalkey

There are only 3 kinds of accountants! Those that can count and those that can't !

Lobby Con Shine

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

If it's your personal tax return then paying an accountant €500 for 20 minutes work is not value for money. I believe there are some charging €200 or less but you need to find them.
(Imagine thinking paying someone €200 for 20 minutes work is a good deal!)

My advice. Register with ROS, find a cheap accountant, fill out their template, let them file your return this year. Next year replace all the figures from last year's return. You'll feel it's the best days work you've done in a long time!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've yet to meet an accountant that didn't disappoint......

Sorry, but that is a stupid post.

You clearly misunderstand what you are getting from an accountant. I'm not an accountant but I am self employed and my accountant is worth his weight in gold. I pay him around €2,500 plus VAT per year and find that enitrely acceptable and it gives me peace of mind. The job is done right and I've never had a problem with Revenue.

The contents of your post strike me as "penny wise/pound foolish".

Gloomtastic!

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

Sorry, but that is a stupid post.

You clearly misunderstand what you are getting from an accountant.

Yes, I was getting ripped off!

I was doing all the work keeping my books in order, he was just doing my tax return. Something, I only discovered when it started doing it myself, took just 20 minutes.

How much do you charge for 20 minutes of your time?

Lobby Con Shine

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Yes, I was getting ripped off!

I was doing all the work keeping my books in order, he was just doing my tax return. Something, I only discovered when it started doing it myself, took just 20 minutes.

How much do you charge for 20 minutes of your time?

"Just" doing your tax return?

It doesn't matter if your books are in order, I presume your accountant has to check them, after all, he/she is putting their name to the returns. Don't think that the only work to be done is the 20 minutes to physically fill in the form. I assume there is investigative and preparatory work involved which, even if you run a very basic form of business, must take a few hours.

As I said, you seem to have misunderstood the professional obligations put on your accountant in making the returns. By your rationale, if an accountant can take 20 minutes to complete your returns, he/she can make three lots of returns in an hour.

Paying for your tax returns should not be viewed as a commodity.

Gloomtastic!

You're presuming and assuming quite a bit there. I'm just going on experience.

ssbob

ssbob wrote: »

You see you might say that but I don't know your individual case, for example:

• Did you do up all the spreadsheets for the accountant including your P60 if you are also a PAYE earner showing total income/outgoings?
• Did you calculate Capital Allowances yourself?
• Did you go through the line items and pull out what is allowable and not allowable?

VAT is irrelevant too by the way if you are registered?

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Yes, I was getting ripped off!

I was doing all the work keeping my books in order, he was just doing my tax return. Something, I only discovered when it started doing it myself, took just 20 minutes.

How much do you charge for 20 minutes of your time?

You didn't answer my questions above, you are saying you kept your books in order but were they categorised so that he could apply a quick filter on the spreadsheet?

You may have been ripped off but if any accountant is able to do a tax return in 20 mins including checks etc he is not doing due dilligence and therefore you should be with someone else.

Gloomtastic!

ssbob wrote: »

You didn't answer my questions above, you are saying you kept your books in order but were they categorised so that he could apply a quick filter on the spreadsheet?

You may have been ripped off but if any accountant is able to do a tax return in 20 mins including checks etc he is not doing due dilligence and therefore you should be with someone else.

I didn't answer because none of your points are relevant to me. I'm self-employed, not registered for VAT anymore and have no capital allowances. I calculated and filled in his 'filter' template which he then transferred to my tax return online. I have used the same template for my last two tax returns and hey presto 20 minutes later, the tax due is calculated for me.

Due dilligence? Sales = x, costs = y. Profit = x-y. Tax on profit = get ROS to work it out for you and save yourself a fortune.

ssbob

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I didn't answer because none of your points are relevant to me. I'm self-employed, not registered for VAT anymore and have no capital allowances. I calculated and filled in his 'filter' template which he then transferred to my tax return online. I have used the same template for my last two tax returns and hey presto 20 minutes later, the tax due is calculated for me.

Due dilligence? Sales = x, costs = y. Profit = x-y. Tax on profit = get ROS to work it out for you and save yourself a fortune.

Each year the return changes slightly based on new rules etc in the finance act so I hope for your sake you read through all the items before you sign and submit.

If you felt you were being ripped off then it might have been worth talking to your accountant.

JD Dublin

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I didn't answer because none of your points are relevant to me. I'm self-employed, not registered for VAT anymore and have no capital allowances. I calculated and filled in his 'filter' template which he then transferred to my tax return online. I have used the same template for my last two tax returns and hey presto 20 minutes later, the tax due is calculated for me.

Due dilligence? Sales = x, costs = y. Profit = x-y. Tax on profit = get ROS to work it out for you and save yourself a fortune.

I've read a few of your comments, and the responses from accountants and non-accountants. Lose the chip on the shoulder, you sound like a spoilt child.

Back on topic. Just to illustrate the dofference between Price ( what you pay ) and Value ( what it's worth ), I pay our family doctor €60 per visit - which comes out at about €360 per hour. Do I whinge? Of course I do. Most of the time the young fella is in with the doc it's ''don't know, maybe he needs a new inhaler or he has a slight 'flu''.

Twice he has proved his worth - he disgnosed gallstones in my wife, and glandular fever in my daughter, saving much pain and delay in each case. And still only charged €60.

Now if your tax affairs are that simple then you were being ripped off for what takes 20 minutes, but who pays your rent, your secretary and Professional Indemnity Insurance?

What if the accountant, just once, found a way to save you a few quid? But I think you would still whinge :pac::pac::pac:

So there you have it - you need to distinguish between the Price you paid and the Value of that service - 2 different things.

Gloomtastic!

JD Dublin wrote: »

So there you have it - you need to distinguish between the Price you paid and the Value of that service - 2 different things.

Based on the fact that I supplied all the information my accountant needed, in such a way that there could be no doubt to it's authenticity, where all they had to do was fill in an on-line form that would not take more than 20 minutes, then for the price I paid, I did not receive value for money.

You go to the doctor with an ailment. Using the information supplied, they diagnose a treatment, You get your prescription. You pay your €60.
Next time you have the same ailment, you know what the problem is, you know what the solution is but you still have to pay your €60 to get it.
The first time I went, I got value for money. Any subsequent time was, in my opinion, a rip-off.

The professions in Ireland have been ripping people off for years - the lawyers, the accountants and the doctors. Yet like good little children we take it on the chin and be grateful for it. When you try and point this out you get told to shut up, you don't know what you're talking about. It's comical really but also quite sad.

Who's the spolt child again?

Peterdalkey

Just as there are many people out there who can service their own cars to a very decent standard indeed, there are those who can do their own tax returns, especially if they are relatively straightforward. There is no single correct answer, as with so many aspects of life, it depends!. It depends on the complexity of the activity and the capacity and talents of the taxpayer, no two are ever going to be exactly the same. The trick is to pick the correct option that works for YOU!

dbran

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I didn't answer because none of your points are relevant to me. I'm self-employed, not registered for VAT anymore and have no capital allowances. I calculated and filled in his 'filter' template which he then transferred to my tax return online. I have used the same template for my last two tax returns and hey presto 20 minutes later, the tax due is calculated for me.

Due dilligence? Sales = x, costs = y. Profit = x-y. Tax on profit = get ROS to work it out for you and save yourself a fortune.

You should set up your own accountancy practice. You certainly have it all figured out.:D

Gloomtastic!

Mod edit: Trolling comment removed