Practice Forced Landings.

lomb

Im just at the point of completing the PPL doing the cross country solo weather permitting shortly and have been practising away on ms flight sim x. Looking forward to the license and hopefully next year the Multi and IR.

Ive tried pulling the power back to idle from 300-500 feet and trying to turn and frankly apart from no chance of reaching the reciprocal runway there is zero control over the aircraft in trying to land it at any particular place with wings banked as there is no way to predict the glide distance at any thing other than best glide with wings level. I can easily see a stall/spin happening.

The other thing was in cross country from say 2500 feet alot of time can be wasted searching for the keys and an unacceptable number of engine failures result in crashes or at least unpredictable events. The only safe predictable way on single engine aircraft when in cruise at 2000+ feet is to turn the aircraft immediately downwind run through the mayday/restart checks and then turn the aircraft into wind to land at the right point according to our glide approach training. The low ground speed into wind makes the whole thing very safe/ slow/ predicatable meaning if you hit anything it will be at 30 knots as opposed to 50 which is easily survivable.

Everyone should try a few from 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3500,4000 etc to see how they react and the outcomes. Its been an eye opener for me at least.

BonkeyDonker

Not quite sure I follow - You are using MS FSX to practise forced landings or are you talking about a real aircraft?

MoeJay

Put away the flight sim. Talk to your flight instructor. Know your emergency drills.

http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/REPORT%202013-013.pdf

lomb

I wont be putting the flight sim away anytime soon. Ive done several lessons on forced landings for real but there is no way anyone can spend the time and concentrate on outcomes/ predictability for real versus trying it on a sim, and seeing the result.
Heres an accident report where a pilot with an IMC did a forced landing touching down at 100 knots which luckily went well.
http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/upload/general/3983-0.PDF
I posted this thread as I didnt want to post it in the Birr crash thread for obvious reasons. If someone with 600 hours made that mistake then how can any of us gaurantee a better outcome? Most light aircraft training is on learning to fly precisely, navigating, radio work than actually concentrating on what happens if the **** hits the fan.

Lustrum

lomb wrote: »

..... how can any of us gaurantee a better outcome? Most light aircraft training is on learning to fly precisely, navigating, radio work than actually concentrating on what happens if the **** hits the fan.

Unfortunately you can't guarantee a better outcome. What you can do however is drill your procedures into yourself so that you can give yourself the best chance of a better outcome. And if you feel you're not prepared enough for if the **** does hit the fan someday (touch wood that day will never come) then ask your instructor to start pulling the power on you when you're not expecting it, as that's what will happen. The more they do it, the more you get to deal with it, the more practiced you become, the better chance you will give yourself.

Remember it's airspeed that will keep you alive. Focus on getting your best glide speed straight away before doing anything else and at least from then on you're giving yourself a fighting chance

andy_g

Lustrum wrote: »

Unfortunately you can't guarantee a better outcome. What you can do however is drill your procedures into yourself so that you can give yourself the best chance of a better outcome. And if you feel you're not prepared enough for if the **** does hit the fan someday (touch wood that day will never come) then ask your instructor to start pulling the power on you when you're not expecting it, as that's what will happen. The more they do it, the more you get to deal with it, the more practiced you become, the better chance you will give yourself.

Remember it's airspeed that will keep you alive. Focus on getting your best glide speed straight away before doing anything else and at least from then on you're giving yourself a fighting chance

If your not practicing it now when it happens then its good bye.
When i was working for a school in weston i used to pull the power on students when they reached that level, and tbh some have made amazing pilots.

Mech1

First of all I dont fly, not even one lesson.

I have MS FSX installed but have only tried it once or twice.

I am a qualified and very well experienced motor mechanic and over the last 30 years I have driven most of the cars available to buy here and quite a few that are not.

I would consider myself to be a pretty good driver.

NOW

The first thing that a driver of a manual gearbox car has to be taught when taking out a Automatic gearbox car is to tuck the left leg away somewhere under the seat. This is because without knowing or really thinking he will try to use it when its not needed for braking. This in itself isnt too much of a problem as he will only push it (brake) a couple of times like its a clutch pedal and will soon get fed up with his head hitting the steering wheel and will learn to push it less vigorously.

And then

He gets back into a manual gearbox car and drives away,,,

Suddenly a pedestrian runs onto the road and muscle memory puts his left foot on the brake and he's got no foot for the clutch, panics and its too late.

In my mind keyboards are for typing with, light aircraft are not supplied with a suitable usb port.

MoeJay

I don't believe that MS Flight Sim is an appropriate tool to use to practice or evaluate techniques or skills or procedures for abnormal or emergency situations.

lomb

Well I think you guys are wrong. I have a Saitek throttle and joy stick set up with saitek rudder pedals so Ive invested the cash. The only difference between the sim and the real thing is that in the aircraft the human factor comes into it alot more ie noise,vibration, panic, being thrown about etc.
If you overcome all that the sim is as real as it gets.
The results of my testing shocked me a little and I think my PFLs have improved to the point where if I am above suitable terrain I feel confident of landing the aircraft and walking away. Even if not I think Il walk away.
How many take off knowing the recip of the surface wind imprinted in their minds to steer a heading to on engine failure. I for one am not going to be wasting any time thinking.
I will of course be practising more forced landings for real in due course but only with the knowledge picked up from the sim/instructors/books/accident reports. One of the problems in PPL training is if your ready for nav or cross country nav you cant just say lets do another hour on forced landings, you have to motor on with the course. Thats the nature of it. In any case here we see the outcome of an instructor who himself fell foul of the laws of physics.

Mech1

lomb wrote: »

Well I think you guys are wrong. I have a Saitek throttle and joy stick set up with saitek rudder pedals so Ive invested the cash. The only difference between the sim and the real thing is

3000ft

LeftBase

lomb wrote: »

Well I think you guys are wrong. I have a Saitek throttle and joy stick set up with saitek rudder pedals so Ive invested the cash. The only difference between the sim and the real thing is that in the aircraft the human factor comes into it alot more ie noise,vibration, panic, being thrown about etc.
If you overcome all that the sim is as real as it gets.
.

When I was doing my type rating and we were doing emergency procedures the instructor told us that what we did in the case of an emergency while flying any aircraft would be subject to combing with a fine tooth comb by the AAIU afterwards. You will be run through everything you did and a nugget like the above would no doubt result is an exchange of glances between the interviewers.

No sim no matter how well kitted out(even airline sims) can totally re-create the real thing, but more importantly no "simulated failure" can mimic the real thing. My instructor pulled the mixture to very lean once without my noticing and I thought it was a real failure(as he intended)...I can tell you now that it felt a whole world away from the PFLs I did...this was now an FL!

andy_g

lomb wrote: »

Well I think you guys are wrong. I have a Saitek throttle and joy stick set up with saitek rudder pedals so Ive invested the cash. The only difference between the sim and the real thing is that in the aircraft the human factor comes into it alot more ie noise,vibration, panic, being thrown about etc.
If you overcome all that the sim is as real as it gets.
The results of my testing shocked me a little and I think my PFLs have improved to the point where if I am above suitable terrain I feel confident of landing the aircraft and walking away. Even if not I think Il walk away.
How many take off knowing the recip of the surface wind imprinted in their minds to steer a heading to on engine failure. I for one am not going to be wasting any time thinking.
I will of course be practising more forced landings for real in due course but only with the knowledge picked up from the sim/instructors/books/accident reports. One of the problems in PPL training is if your ready for nav or cross country nav you cant just say lets do another hour on forced landings, you have to motor on with the course. Thats the nature of it. In any case here we see the outcome of an instructor who himself fell foul of the laws of physics.

The only thing you will learn from Ms Flight sim X is bad habit bad habit bad habit.
A student i had a few years back asked

Can i use a sim to train.

My reply was yes but only for instrument familiarization. He went and did what you plan to do and failed his flight test.
so by all means go learn the bad habits.

Well I think you guys are wrong.

That's a really nice attitude to have trying to enter the Aviation industry just remember its a small world in the industry and everyone is tied to someone else.

Listen to the pilots here on the forum they are trying to help, as im sure we were all at your stage at some point.

lomb

Your dead right ,the main problem with the sim is that your staring at a load of instruments and become over reliant on them and it worsens your flying. I actually zoom out to 50% now so that my view of the instruments doesnt dominate at all. The opposite in fact. Why dont MS default it like you are sitting in the seat? This teaches you to use each instrument only when you need it at the point you need it being primarily visual and learning the subtleties of the picture out the window.
All this is digressing- pulling the power and seeing what you do especially where there is excess height, I think most will rely on luck frankly with a little skill. Its an interesting exercise.
Also the radio nav aids work the same so if one has charts then you can go cross country or international. Its all good fun. We cant all afford to be up there all the time. From what Ive seen most professional pilots no longer fly once they stop being paid for it.

Lustrum

lomb wrote: »

All this is digressing- pulling the power and seeing what you do especially where there is excess height, I think most will rely on luck frankly with a little skill. Its an interesting exercise.

And I think you'll find the more practice you get in the aircraft, the more you will be relying on skill with a little luck.

Esel

Mech1 wrote: »

First of all I dont fly, not even one lesson.

Mech1 wrote: »

3000ft

Does not compute, based on your post above.

Mech1 wrote: »

The first thing that a driver of a manual gearbox car has to be taught when taking out a Automatic gearbox car is to tuck the left leg away somewhere under the seat. This is because without knowing or really thinking he will try to use it when its not needed for braking. This in itself isnt too much of a problem as he will only push it (brake) a couple of times like its a clutch pedal and will soon get fed up with his head hitting the steering wheel and will learn to push it less vigorously.

And then

He gets back into a manual gearbox car and drives away,,,

Suddenly a pedestrian runs onto the road and muscle memory puts his left foot on the brake and he's got no foot for the clutch, panics and its too late.

But where is the problem if the driver slams on the brake with their left foot? The engine may cut out, but the car stops in time. Oh, wait - you meant to say the driver puts his left foot on the clutch (i.e. the left-most pedal)? Or the driver lifts their foot off the brake pedal to get to the clutch pedal? If this is what you meant to type, then imo the emergency would have passed (i.e. collision avoided) before any 'muscle memory' effect would have caused the driver to lift their left foot off the brake pedal.

Personally, I left-foot-brake all the time when driving a car with an automatic gearbox, and have not yet have even a near-miss due to mis-pedalling.

Mech1 wrote: »

In my mind keyboards are for typing with, light aircraft are not supplied with a suitable usb port.

We are all warriors of some kind or another in our own way...

Although I do agree that the only way to learn is by doing, in the real world, with a competent instructor.

pclancy

I bloody hate when instructors yank back the throttle after a random period on takeoff. Where I fly from the options are all made of saltwater so I don't think ditching will be pretty. Used to have warning as he always asked the tower for permission to practice efato along with our initial clearance but then he started phoning in the flight plan himself while I was outside preflighting and telling the controller of his plans without me knowing....

I've had the secretly-lean-the-mixture-without-me-seeing-it trick before too, and a stuck throttle that took me ages to figure out.

A great simple training method to get your eyes used to looking for references outside the cockpit is the good old tea-towel over the instruments game. Trying to guess airspeed and height without instruments is a great skill to learn and fun to practice.

We've had the flight sim debate a million times over on here, some see the value in practicing stuff at home, others refuse to believe in its merits. We've got a nice sim setup at the aeroclub that is very handy for practising arrivals/departure procedures etc or getting familiar with new airspace, i think its a very useful tool and FAR cheaper then flight time. But the physics and performance of the aircraft just isnt the same as the real thing and the visual references very poor. Its probably best as an IFR and systems/procedures trainer I guess.

View Profile

Maybe I am missing something, but is the main point of PFL not the selection of a suitable landing area.
Flight sim will not really give the user a 360 degree view which is what is really needed in selecting a landing site.
Also the sim graphics would need to be exceptional in order for the pilot to spot the overgrown ditch running across the field or the rain soaked soil perfect for ripping your gear off.

I think the OP is a little too focused on the PFL procedure. Plenty of trickier things to learn coming up in your training especially if you are thinking of completing an IMC.

John_Mc

lomb wrote: »

Well I think you guys are wrong. I have a Saitek throttle and joy stick set up with saitek rudder pedals so Ive invested the cash. The only difference between the sim and the real thing is that in the aircraft the human factor comes into it alot more ie noise,vibration, panic, being thrown about etc.
If you overcome all that the sim is as real as it gets.
The results of my testing shocked me a little and I think my PFLs have improved to the point where if I am above suitable terrain I feel confident of landing the aircraft and walking away. Even if not I think Il walk away.
How many take off knowing the recip of the surface wind imprinted in their minds to steer a heading to on engine failure. I for one am not going to be wasting any time thinking.
I will of course be practising more forced landings for real in due course but only with the knowledge picked up from the sim/instructors/books/accident reports. One of the problems in PPL training is if your ready for nav or cross country nav you cant just say lets do another hour on forced landings, you have to motor on with the course. Thats the nature of it. In any case here we see the outcome of an instructor who himself fell foul of the laws of physics.

Although Flight sim has it's uses, and I did find it helped me a lot when I started my PPL, it is not accurate enough to help you with PFLs.

The flight models aren't accurate enough, and your view is not realistic as you have no peripheral vision.

It might be helpful with learning the drills and checklists but not much else. I guarantee that your efforts in real life practising will be better.

lomb

View Profile wrote: »

Maybe I am missing something, but is the main point of PFL not the selection of a suitable landing area.

Eh? The main point of a PFL is to walk away from the aircraft. The main point of that seems especially to point the machine downwind if sufficient altitude remains. After all we are trying to keep the picture the same. If we start looking for fields that dont fit the weather then we are probably going to overshoot and hit the deck at a high rate of knots as our training wouldnt have encommpassed landing downwind.

Humans like to overcomplicate things. Theres little to doing anything successfully from flying aircraft, making money or playing a sim other than learning to concentrate and keeping the picture the same.

The sim can be used by zooming out to watch the picture out the main screen. The Saitek joystick has a mini joystick on it for viewing around outside.

View Profile

What is this "keeping the picture the same" you speak of?

Xpro

lomb wrote: »

Im just at the point of completing the PPL doing the cross country solo weather permitting shortly and have been practising away on ms flight sim x. Looking forward to the license and hopefully next year the Multi and IR.

Ive tried pulling the power back to idle from 300-500 feet and trying to turn and frankly apart from no chance of reaching the reciprocal runway there is zero control over the aircraft in trying to land it at any particular place with wings banked as there is no way to predict the glide distance at any thing other than best glide with wings level. I can easily see a stall/spin happening.

The other thing was in cross country from say 2500 feet alot of time can be wasted searching for the keys and an unacceptable number of engine failures result in crashes or at least unpredictable events. The only safe predictable way on single engine aircraft when in cruise at 2000+ feet is to turn the aircraft immediately downwind run through the mayday/restart checks and then turn the aircraft into wind to land at the right point according to our glide approach training. The low ground speed into wind makes the whole thing very safe/ slow/ predicatable meaning if you hit anything it will be at 30 knots as opposed to 50 which is easily survivable.

Everyone should try a few from 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3500,4000 etc to see how they react and the outcomes. Its been an eye opener for me at least.

At 500ft or less you dont want to be turning at all. You'd want to be established by then or aim straight ahead.
Remember the old rule, failure on take or without sufficient height turns should be no more then 45°

Stovepipe

Lomb, sims are alright for procedural stuff but there's nothing like the real thing. I've had a few close calls in real aircraft and no sim can replicate the raised heart rate, the dry mouth, the clenching buttocks when the engine coughs or stops or won't restart or the time when you bounce too high. There are certain smells that cannot be replicated;-)

regards
Stovepipe

lomb

View Profile wrote: »

What is this "keeping the picture the same" you speak of?

Keep as many variables as possible similar so that when something happens its all familiar and we are going through the motions.
For example at 3000 foot Im cruising along, then the engine dies, I begin to panick, Im seeing alot of fields everywhere, I get out a mayday that makes me even more panicked, I try a restart and see the prop turning or its windmilling, more panick.
If the variables are kept constant- Ie turn downwind immediately if the terrain allows it, panick over ,then when we turn upwind the picture is the same ie the glide approach training. Also the landing ground speed is probably 30 knots allowing for the wind so we are going to walk away if we aim away from obstacles.

lomb

Xpro wrote: »

At 500ft or less you dont want to be turning at all. You'd want to be established by then or aim straight ahead.
Remember the old rule, failure on take or without sufficient height turns should be no more then 45°

Of course, and even at 1000 foot in the cruise perhaps due to bad weather or controlled airspace or something else do we want to be burning height turning downwind? If im anywhere near upwind Id be flying straight towards no obstacles.

Stovepipe

At a thousand feet, you have probably 20 seconds to get anything done before contact with planet earth, so you need to make a radio call, establish best glide speed and pretty much land straight ahead or within a very narrow arc or your heading. Turning burns irreplaceable energy so you may not have a choice. If you do not make a radio call, even on the non-emergency frequency, you might go unnoticed by ATC as you are already at low level and may be out of radar coverage or VHF radio contact. If you make a radio call, you are increasing the odds of being heard by ATC or another aircraft (or even a spotter with a handset) and getting a SAR heli dispatched or the gardai/firemen/ambulance alerted. That's why instructors want you to practise your emergency actions with touch-drills because you will only have a very short time in which to react, even if you are lucky enough to be at 3000' when the engine shuts down.
regards
stovepipe

logie101

On a side point the IAA really need to change their position on the 500 ft rule in regards PFL training.
In the UK, it is my understanding , that you can practice forced landings well below 500ft. This gives students a better understanding and overall better equips them should they ever have a real engine failure.

In my PPL skills test the examiner told me to go round at 650ft in order to avoid breaking the 500ft rule. Crazy IAA rule.

FWVT

Lomb, you seem reluctant to take advice from those here more experienced than you. That is a recipe for disaster.

Sim counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to real life. Ok for practicing IR procedures but not for seat of the pants flying. Accept that and move on or risk actually forking out more money on extra flying hours with the instructor tryig to weed the bad habits out of you.

Growler!!!

logie101 wrote: »

On a side point the IAA really need to change their position on the 500 ft rule in regards PFL training.
In the UK, it is my understanding , that you can practice forced landings well below 500ft. This gives students a better understanding and overall better equips them should they ever have a real engine failure.

In my PPL skills test the examiner told me to go round at 650ft in order to avoid breaking the 500ft rule. Crazy IAA rule.

Whoever told you that was wrong. The CAA and indeed the more liberal FAA have the same 500ft rule. You can only descend below 500ft if you are actually landing or taking off. There are a few small exceptions but none are for practicing forced landings.

lomb

FWVT wrote: »

Lomb, you seem reluctant to take advice from those here more experienced than you. That is a recipe for disaster.

Sim counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to real life. Ok for practicing IR procedures but not for seat of the pants flying. Accept that and move on or risk actually forking out more money on extra flying hours with the instructor tryig to weed the bad habits out of you.

If you say so. Ive already stated that there are differences in the sim and reality ie the human factor and that the sim seems to focus too much on instruments to the detriment of the picture out the window. The likes of Boeing obviously dont take your advice so I wont be either. Also F1 teams train their drivers on sims.

FWVT

lomb wrote: »

If you say so. Ive already stated that there are differences in the sim and reality ie the human factor and that the sim seems to focus too much on instruments to the detriment of the picture out the window. The likes of Boeing obviously dont take your advice so I wont be either. Also F1 teams train their drivers on sims.

Fair enough, you go for it then, I just hope you listen to your instructor better.

Cocky little upstart!

logie101

Growler!!! wrote: »

Whoever told you that was wrong. The CAA and indeed the more liberal FAA have the same 500ft rule. You can only descend below 500ft if you are actually landing or taking off. There are a few small exceptions but none are for practicing forced landings.

I think I am right on this. Although I stand corrected. I did a little training in the UK and during PFLs we usually didn't commence a go round until 200ft. I must look up the legislation.

I do know that The CAA interpret the 500 ft rule to mean above the highest object. So you can perfect legally drop down to 100ft just of the coast and fly low level.
While the IAA rule states 500ft agl.

LeftBase

lomb wrote: »

If you say so. Ive already stated that there are differences in the sim and reality ie the human factor and that the sim seems to focus too much on instruments to the detriment of the picture out the window. The likes of Boeing obviously dont take your advice so I wont be either. Also F1 teams train their drivers on sims.

What? That little Boeing statement puzzles me and to be honest you show your lack of experience in saying that. Airlines and F1 teams use sims to save on actual hull loss(at least once a week when I was doing my TR someone crashed the sim despite the instructors best efforts) and fuel costs. I can tell you now from doing an MCC in a fixed base sim and a type rating in an airline full motion all bells and whistles sim that sims and actual aircraft differ hugely in reality and not just because of human factors. I remember my first take off at the controls of a jet...I was slightly taken aback when I advanced the throttles and the thing started moving so quickly! I'd done lots of take offs in the sim and so knew the procedures fine but it's a totally different kettle of fish doing them in a stationary sim with a reset button and doing them at 100+ knots when it is actually life and death!

How many times do we hear after a close call and a difficult emergency landing "oh they put 20 crews in a sim and they all crashed"?. This happens largely because when your ass is on the line you concentrate a lot more than you would in the sim and the outcomes because of the differences vary largely!!

Growler!!!

logie101 wrote: »

I think I am right on this. Although I stand corrected. I did a little training in the UK and during PFLs we usually didn't commence a go round until 200ft. I must look up the legislation.

I do know that The CAA interpret the 500 ft rule to mean above the highest object. So you can perfect legally drop down to 100ft just of the coast and fly low level.
While the IAA rule states 500ft agl.

Amendment of Rule 5 of the UK Rules of the Air 1996

The CAA don't interpret the rules. They make them.

Cessna_Pilot

lomb wrote: »

If you say so. Ive already stated that there are differences in the sim and reality ie the human factor and that the sim seems to focus too much on instruments to the detriment of the picture out the window. The likes of Boeing obviously dont take your advice so I wont be either. Also F1 teams train their drivers on sims.

Thousands of Boeing hours here. Never once used a video game for practice The extent of my "pc flight sim" experience was RANTxl which of course is an IFR procedural training device.

And for the record back in my SEP days, before I had any licence I didn't know anything. You probably don't either. You need to accept that, and take advice from real experienced pilots before you start mouthing off about how a video game will help save your life versus the words of real world experience.

View Profile

Lomb with your attitude you won't get far in this business.

Growler!!!

+1 for rant xl. Best thing money can buy.

andy_g

Lomb just curious as to what age you are? as im guessing your in your teens and as such dont like friendly advice from people already in the industry/have experience.

It's almost like telling your instructor its ok you can leave now i can fly this.

lomb

View Profile wrote: »

Lomb with your attitude you won't get far in this business.

Hmm, I dont need to.. I have a business I just enjoy flying as a hobby and why not?

lomb

andy_g wrote: »

Lomb just curious as to what age you are? as im guessing your in your teens and as such dont like friendly advice from people already in the industry/have experience.

It's almost like telling your instructor its ok you can leave now i can fly this.

Mid thirties. There is alot of protectionism of any industry (including my own) ie you cant do my job as its too difficult has certain barriers etc
Ive picked up alot from pros along the way but no one really has the answers in this world thats the one conclusion ive come to. Common sense isnt all that common and all that. I am still picking up plenty from you guys all joking aside.

andy_g

lomb wrote: »

Mid thirties. There is alot of protectionism of any industry (including my own) ie you cant do my job as its too difficult has certain barriers etc
Ive picked up alot from pros along the way but no one really has the answers in this world thats the one conclusion ive come to.

I think its time you ask god for the answers so. As you just arnt listing to the users here.

FWVT

lomb wrote: »

Hmm, I dont need to.. I have a business I just enjoy flying as a hobby and why not?

So because you don't fly for a living (and never will) that makes you immune to the pitfalls that professional pilots tell you are out there? You need to cop on man.

lomb

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

And for the record back in my SEP days, before I had any licence I didn't know anything. You probably don't either. You need to accept that, and take advice from real experienced pilots before you start mouthing off about how a video game will help save your life versus the words of real world experience.

And in twenty years youll say the same you didnt know jack today. Thats the way it is you dont know what you dont know eh? At the end of the day if you know enough to get by thats all that matters. Ive no interest in taking the helm of a 747 for a living as I make more doing what I do anyway I just enjoy flying and hopefully will continue to for many years to come.

Mech1

lomb wrote: »

And in twenty years youll say the same you didnt know jack today. Thats the way it is you dont know what you dont know eh? At the end of the day if you know enough to get by thats all that matters. Ive no interest in taking the helm of a 747 for a living as I make more doing what I do anyway I just enjoy flying and hopefully will continue to for many years to come.

Can you link all your future intended flight paths to a facebook account? I will join up and you can add me as a friend. I would love to know if your flying in my direction. Photo opportunity only of course.

DieselPowered

lomb wrote: »

Most light aircraft training is on learning to fly precisely, navigating, radio work than actually concentrating on what happens if the **** hits the fan.

I see the problem here, its the way you are being taught.Its not your fault, you're a student. Obviously practiced forced landings are not important while you learn to fly precisely.

Every time your wheels lift from the runway is a potential engine failure and forced landing. These need to be drilled into your head every time you fly.

Where exactly are you learning this new way of flying?

Esel

Insist on this in any aircraft on which you continue to learn.

Cessna_Pilot

DieselPowered wrote: »

I see the problem here, its the way you are being taught.Its not your fault, you're a student. Obviously practiced forced landings are not important while you learn to fly precisely.

Every time your wheels lift from the runway is a potential engine failure and forced landing. These need to be drilled into your head every time you fly.

Where exactly are you learning this new way of flying?

Agreed.


What happened to Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

bombs away

STOP
FEEDING
THE
TROLL

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

andy_g

Mmmmmm Mod food where the troll?