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Job Offer Received. Accept or Not???? Advice needed please

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  • 27-10-2013 6:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭


    Last week I received an offer of a new job that I interviewed for. I was initially delighted because I tried very very hard to get it. The job is a management role where I will be responsible for managing a team of people. In many ways my ideal job. There is however one small problem. I will be commuting 2 hour to work and 2 hours home using public transport. The office is based in Dublin city centre and I am not really prepared to drive in there especially when there is no parking. Also we can't relocate from where we are living.

    When HR rang me to offer me the job they told me that the hours were 9-5. I had pretty much guessed this when applying for the job. anyway I asked HR if there would be any chance of me starting work at 08:15 and leaving at 16:30 as it would suit me better for public transport, etc. She said that she would have to speak to my manager-to-be. The following day he called me and I put it to him. I explained to him my situation with the public transport, I was commuting and that I was prepared to work on the train in the morning/evening (potentially I could do another 3-4 hours work on the train). Anyway he said that he would have a think about it.

    He called me on Friday and said that he had been thinking about what I had asked. He didn't think it would work. He explained that the core hours were 9-5 and that in reality the hours would not be 9-5. He went on to explain that things are so busy in the office at the moment and will be for the next year or so. He also informed me that he is currently working 08:00 - 18:30 most days. Fair enough, that's his choice.

    So what he was basically trying to say was that if I am not prepared to work til 18:30 in the evening then don't accept the job.

    I am so mixed up at the moment as to what to do. I am working on contract at the moment and have another 18 months left on it so it is not critical to accept. I am just worried about accepting the job and not being able for the commute and having no life outside work.

    My manager to be told me to have a think about what i was going to do over the weekend and let him know on Monday. He didn't come across well on the phone and if I'm honest I thought he was a bit ignorant.

    i was thinking about asking to meet up with him for a chat so that I could talk to him face to face and explain my position. Would this be a good idea????


    If agreed to work until 18:30 in the evening I would be doing and extra 1:30 work. I could get 2 hours work done on the way home. If I was staying til 18:30 I wouldn't be lifting a finger on the way home. So in my eyes it's a false economy for him because he will be gaining 30 mins work out of me in the evening.

    I would be really grateful for some advice on this and what to do next??


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    It's a difficult one, there are not many management jobs where you just put in 9-5. Work in the office beyond this is often expected and required. I think it will be a problem for you on top of a 4 hour commute.
    Unless you are willing to relocate or stay in Dublin a few nights a week, I really don't think this job is doable for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    totally off topic but... this post reminded me of a joke where there where people on a bridge looking down into the river where some guy was drowning, and they were all shouting 'were did ya work' :D


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Can you not move so you are closer to the job?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    So what he was basically trying to say was that if I am not prepared to work til 18:30 in the evening then don't accept the job.

    If its a management role then you can expect to do unpaid overtime (assuming a salary) up to the legal maximum of 48* hours per week. Unless you're prepared to put the time in I wouldn't be looking at management roles if I were you. I'm not suggesting you need to do the US thing of being there for the sake of it, but if something needs to be done and the buck stops with you, it needs to be done.

    *bearing in mind this is an average, you can be expected to work more some weeks and less the next.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    ...Also we can't relocate from where we are living...
    Stheno wrote: »
    Can you not move so you are closer to the job?


    OP, it's going to be a tough decision. If it were me and I had no commitments, travel wouldn't be a concern and I'd take it. With family involved, I'd be inclined to think long and hard about the possibility of an 8-10 hour working day with up to 4 hours travel time on top of that. I'll not weight on what I'd do, but a 14 hour day is a possible reality when taking the job.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Well you need to be realistic here. So say you turn down this offer, the next job offer in Dublin comes with the same commute. Are you going to turn that one down to?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    can i just ask were the details of hours, begin/end time etc not spoken about at interview stage?
    i only ask as if it was then you would have known what was involved and prehaps decided not to go ahead with offer.
    2 hour commute each way on public transport seems a lot but if you are unable to commit to a management position with the extra hours required, as necessary, then maybe this type of role is not for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭melon_collie


    Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I am totally mixed up as to whether i should accept the job or not. i haven't slept in about 4-5 days thinkin about it. i am married but have no kids at the moment . Part of me wants to take the job because its a great job and if i don't i could regret it. There is probably a 60-70% chance that my next job will be in Dublin if i turn this down. However it would probably be in a better part of the city where i could commute to/from in the car in about 60-75mins. i have good qualifications and experience so id be optimistic of getting another job but maybe not one with better prospects of climbing the ladder in an organization.

    I am concerned that if i take this job i Will have no life outside work during the week, my weekends Will be spent recovering from the week of work and travel and my marriage Will suffer.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,943 ✭✭✭from_atozinc


    At the the end of the day, no matter what people say, life revolves around money.

    Is the salary of this new job a big improvement ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Why not just take the job and see how it goes ? Are u currently working?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    You seem pretty concerned over the impact this will have on your life outside the job. The fact its a management job and a busy place means you will rarely do a straight 9-5. Being new to the job its gonna take you time to get used to things too. Factor in a 4 hour commute each day and its gonna be some long days.

    I wouldnt dismiss it based on what ifs and maybes though. Give it a try and if it doesnt work out then it doesnt work out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭zoobizoo


    How long would it take to drive?

    Also, is there somewhere close that you could drive to where there is parking / Luas / DART ride in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭coathanger


    Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I am totally mixed up as to whether i should accept the job or not. i haven't slept in about 4-5 days thinkin about it. i am married but have no kids at the moment . Part of me wants to take the job because its a great job and if i don't i could regret it. There is probably a 60-70% chance that my next job will be in Dublin if i turn this down. However it would probably be in a better part of the city where i could commute to/from in the car in about 60-75mins. i have good qualifications and experience so id be optimistic of getting another job but maybe not one with better prospects of climbing the ladder in an organization.

    I am concerned that if i take this job i Will have no life outside work during the week, my weekends Will be spent recovering from the week of work and travel and my marriage Will suffer.

    Hi There,
    I thought I would just give you my pennys worth!!!!
    I worked in Dublin & lived in Wexford(before the bypass)& commuted for 3 years. Left slightly early on a Friday,& got home @6.30/7pm depending on traffic, used to be so tired would be asleep before 9pm,up early on Saturday to visit elderly parents, do washing, shopping housework etc. Was so tired by evening didn't have the energy to go out, so my social life suffered majorily...after about 18months & coming into a 2nd winter of driving ,I decided to stay in a B&B once a week then from that I ended up renting a room, for the week & then came home as usual on the Friday, it was tough going, my husband was at home all week. I loved the job but in the end something had to give, not conducive to start a family with me away all week.
    If it were me facing your decision, I would carry on working in your contract job,& keep an eye out for something permanent nearer to home.As you stated yourself,there are no guarantees that the hours will be as your manager stated,I often had to travel on a Sunday for meetings etc.

    Best of luck with your decision


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Phantasos


    With all due respect, why were you applying for management positions 2 hours from home if you wish to keep your working hours inside the traditional 9-5? What you want to do as a career, and what you want in your home life, are completely at odds with each other.

    Even with a regular job, you appear to be looking for ways to switch the day to suit your public transport timetable. Most businesses won't accept that sort of thing, TBH. I get that your commute is atrocious, but that's not the company's problem.

    There is simply no point in you accepting a job like this, because you'll pack it in. You'll be in a position where you're out the door at 7:00, in for 9:00, staying late until 18:30 and home at 21:00. That's not in line with your ambition to be a 9-5 worker. In fact, management is not the right option for you if 9-5 work is what you aspire to, because you'll doubtless be working outside those hours a lot.

    I think you need to properly sit down and figure out what you want. You ideally want a reasonably local job that's 9-5 and gives you freedom to enjoy evenings/weekends. That's not in management. Whatever sector you work in, find those office-hours positions, and apply for them. If you're being offered management roles, you'll probably get these types of roles too. The 9-5 jobs won't pay as well, but you need to figure out if you want more money or more leisure time. You sound like you want the latter.

    Re-focus your job hunt, get your 9-5 job, be happy. If you're this stressed now, wait until the long hour weeks kick in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭okiss


    I would think about the following:
    a) You have tried to get them to change your hours to make them more commuter friendly which they are not willing to do.
    b) Your new boss has come across as ignorant ( could this be a warning sign of what he would be like to work for)
    c) Do you know why the job came up - has some one gone up a grade or walked out the door.
    d) Yes they may be offering a better salary but you will have higher travel costs. If you working late you could have to cover the cost of getting home on another bus/train as your goes earlier which will rise your costs a lot.
    e) What would happen if you had a period of bad weather which ment you staying in Dublin or not getting to work?

    One thing I would say that I did this commute for a while and worked over 40 hours most weeks. It was not easy.
    At the moment you can finish work and you can get home in x period of time. You and your wife can spend time together or you can see your friends/ go to watch the football match ect.
    If you are commuting 4 hours a day and working 8 to 10 hours each day you won't be able to do the above.

    I would also consider that in a few years time you may have a family. Most couples find it nice to spend time together with the baby or you wife might be glad for you to mind the baby to give her a break.
    As you child/children older they will need you to be around to bring them to football matches ect.

    At the moment you have a job for the next 18 months which gives you time to look for another near where you live.
    If you decide to take this job I start to look into moving to or closer to Dublin so you can still have a life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,079 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Sounds like hell not a job


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭melon_collie


    I rang my manager-to-be this morning and asked to meet with him later in the week. I have had a good think about the whole thing and I think that meeting with him might be a positive step. I intend to speak to him about my commuting arrangements etc. face to face. I have looked up other public transport times and there is a private bus company running a daily service to Dublin. If I availed of this service I could be in the office for 08:45 and leave at 17:20. Along with that I could get another 2-3 hours work on the commute per day. Does anyone think that this 2-3 hours extra per day counts for anything??

    I know I am coming across in the posts as someone who is looking for the best of both worlds i.e. a great job and a good life outside work. Some people think that that is not a realistic expectation. I understand their point of view but don't necessarily agree fully. I have worked hard all my life and will continue to work hard. I don't expect to take this job and not do the work. Failure is not an option for me and never has been. Maybe I need to take the position, prove to this guy how hard I work, how efficiently I work in and out of the office and that maybe in a years time he will be a little more flexible with a slightly earlier finish.

    I hope that by meeting with him later in the week I will also be able to gauge what type of a person he is and what he would be like to work for.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I rang my manager-to-be this morning and asked to meet with him later in the week. I have had a good think about the whole thing and I think that meeting with him might be a positive step. I intend to speak to him about my commuting arrangements etc. face to face. I have looked up other public transport times and there is a private bus company running a daily service to Dublin. If I availed of this service I could be in the office for 08:45 and leave at 17:20. Along with that I could get another 2-3 hours work on the commute per day. Does anyone think that this 2-3 hours extra per day counts for anything??

    I know I am coming across in the posts as someone who is looking for the best of both worlds i.e. a great job and a good life outside work. Some people think that that is not a realistic expectation. I understand their point of view but don't necessarily agree fully. I have worked hard all my life and will continue to work hard. I don't expect to take this job and not do the work. Failure is not an option for me and never has been. Maybe I need to take the position, prove to this guy how hard I work, how efficiently I work in and out of the office and that maybe in a years time he will be a little more flexible with a slightly earlier finish.

    I hope that by meeting with him later in the week I will also be able to gauge what type of a person he is and what he would be like to work for.
    TBH if he is working 8-18:30 then he's probably not going to be in any way flexible with you.

    Look at it from his point of view, you are a brand new employee, and so have no bona fides to speak of with the company, and even before you start the role, are looking for a change to the core hours, not to mention the overtime he has mentioned.

    There may also be an issue that he percieves that you have to be in the office physically to do your work, and if you are managing people he may feel that more strongly.

    I've been in your position of commuting for 2 hours each way and needing to be flexible with hours, and believe me it's exhausting.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Yeah tbh if I was your manager I would be regretting offering you the job at this stage, you seem like a problem employee already. He probably has 10 other candidates behind you who he'd be happy to hire instead, and who won't have issues with the working hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    I have looked up other public transport times and there is a private bus company running a daily service to Dublin. If I availed of this service I could be in the office for 08:45 and leave at 17:20. Along with that I could get another 2-3 hours work on the commute per day. Does anyone think that this 2-3 hours extra per day counts for anything??
    What if something happens in work and you need to stay late to resolve it? You can't bolt out the door at 17.20 and just say you'll do it tomorrow. That is the issue with management. Also as others have said for the majority of management jobs you can't manage remotely. So what work do you ideally think you can be doing on the commute? If it were that simple sure you could work from home.

    Also your manager is already working extra hours, he was probably hoping that the new recruit could help shoulder some of that work load or at least alleviate his need to stay late all the time, yet here you are not yet even started and basically saying I want the job but during hours that suit me

    To be fair to the company they are being straight up with you about the hours and expectations when they could have just told you anything and then shown you how it really is once you start - at least you have an opportunity to go into this with your eyes wide open, under no illusions. They are being fair enough with you, yet you are dragging your heels with making a decision and taking quite a long time to let them know. If it were me who offered you the job I would be reconsidering my offer by this stage and even if you do accept I would be questioning your commitment.

    You also say you want the job for career progression, but in many management jobs, even ones where you don't manage people, to get up the first few rungs at least you have to put in extra hours and give a lot extra to what is in the job description

    I really don't think this job is for you. Even if the core hours could be changed, 4 hours commuting each day is pretty hellish and won't take long to burn you out. I currently travel 2 hours per day, but have flexible hours (up to a point) but even then I find I often need to work a bit late to complete things. If I had a deadline I had to be out the door by every evening I wouldn't be as effective, because then someone else would have to stay and fix the issue when really I am the one paid to do it.

    If you really want this job you need to make sacrifices and the only one I can see working is if you take a room in Dublin during the week and go home at weekends. Bu least that way when you are home you will have more energy for your family. But commuting 4 hours per day on top of working at 50 hour week will leave you fit for nothing at the weekends anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    The Manager is not interested when you say you will work on the bus. By saying and offering this as an alternative to office based work you are making yourself look a bit silly. Sorry.

    some employers may look at home based work, but they would never ever consider commute based working as part of a working day, or somewhere you could do quality work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    This job (and possibly management) clearly is not for you.

    You have 18 months left on your contract. You have loads of time to find an alternative job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Phantasos


    I rang my manager-to-be this morning and asked to meet with him later in the week. I have had a good think about the whole thing and I think that meeting with him might be a positive step. I intend to speak to him about my commuting arrangements etc. face to face. I have looked up other public transport times and there is a private bus company running a daily service to Dublin. If I availed of this service I could be in the office for 08:45 and leave at 17:20. Along with that I could get another 2-3 hours work on the commute per day. Does anyone think that this 2-3 hours extra per day counts for anything??

    In this job you have to be a manager. Your boss has clearly stated that the company is very busy at the moment and that extra hours will be required, and that that may be the norm. That means that you will have to be flexible with your hours.

    I'd be a bit pissed if I was your boss right now. You can talk about commute work all you want, but essentially you're saying "I want to come in at X time and leave at Y time" and that this company must accommodate your schedule. That is simply not viable. As a manager, you are expected to be flexible with your hours for the company. They are hiring you to manage an area of the company and that requires extra work. Wanting to leave the office every day before your underlings just wouldn't set any sort of example and can't happen, I don't think.

    I'm beginning to think that you have misled the company, because the issue of 'putting in the hours' must have come up at some stage in the process. You cannot expect the company to change to suit you. You're only a new employee and you're trying to demand certain hours already that are not feasible for the role you applied for.

    I feel you're being extremely selfish and not really thinking about the company in all of this. If I was your boss, I'd be giving you an ultimatum - either work your hours and be flexible with them, or don't take the job. Even if your boss accommodates you right now, your attitude and limited transport schedule will cause problems that will see you getting the sack down the road anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    I think this is all getting a bit harsh ref the OP. The company obviously still want her, given that they are negotiating with her rather than say thanks but no thanks so I think some of the high horse riding is a bit unwarranted.

    Obviously bear in mind if they aren't happy with you OP there is nothing to stop them letting you go within the probation period.


  • Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭melon_collie


    I take everyone's advice on board no matter how critical. In fairness, I do agree with most of the harsh stuff that has been said. I think the killing thing for me is without doubt the 4 hour commute. If the job was based close to where I am living there would be absolutely no issues with 08:00 - 18:30. I'd even work longer if required. As I've already said earlier; I am not lazy or a clock watcher and I work very hard. . . . . I am just beginning to feel now that the commute might be a bridge too far for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Phantasos


    A two hour commute either way sounds atrocious. Remember, if you take a lesser position closer to home, you'll have a smaller commute and more hours for yourself every week. And you have to think of your own well-being - you don't want to be stressed to the max every day, watching the time all the time.

    I know some of the comments are harsh, but it's better to be aware of the harsh realities now than in a couple of weeks' time when you've accepted the position and it's too late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    If you look at this every which way it seems like a bad idea. From the OP you have 4 hours a day commute or half a day extra a day. From the managers point of view it doesn't sound like the OP can be flexible. From the underlings' point of view you have a manager that many ask /expect extra hours but will not be about themselves in office.

    I had a boss who always left on time but had the cheek to ask us to do extra hours. These extra hours were often due to his mistakes or mismanagement. Eventually he lost respect and therefore control over a team that had been doing excellent work more efficiently than before they were in charge.

    Eventually they just made the person redundant and productivity returned and the team was self governing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭confuseddotcom


    This is Management afterall though. More of a physical presence than a virtual one would be required I would imagine. It's not like you're a Sales Rep. where a good chunk of the day would involve you being out of the Office / on the road and this might be acceptable for such a role. But 3 hours of a day being away as a Manager doesn't seem plausible really. But at least the lines of communications are still open to try and hash it out and see can a solution be reached or tweaked some way. But, if driving the distance is too much to take on, and by relying on Public Transport renders your availability as limited, it is also likely you will not be able have to refuse to work any extra hours as and when required as part of a Manager's Position if there is no Public Transport around these times that will suit you. Worst case scenario, if you're not in a position to re-locate, keep a look out for something closer to home. Maybe another position type within the same Industry / Field would suit your lifestyle rather than a Managerial Title which doesn't place such demands on time-requirements and availability, maybe that might be a solution?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Heuston and Connolly both have parking which might help.
    I don't understand why you applied for a job that the location and hours do not suit you.


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