The "secularist of the year 2012" and The Paedophile Advocacy Groups

Brown Bomber

I asked a question in the thread on the atheist "intellectual" Dawkins and his disgusting"mild " paedophilia position ". It was regarding gay activist and and co-organiser with Dawkins of the British anti-Pope protests Peter Tatchell.

He is equally if not more deranged on his views on children and sex is the "secularist of the year" for 2012. He is the creepy looking hypocrite in the green shirt.



Tatchell has a long history of gay activism and has crossed paths with pro-paedophilia organisations.

He was a leading member of the "Gay Liberation Front" which assimilated into it the "Paedophile Action For Liberation" . PAL were exposed and then dissolved.

http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.co...itain-25-5-75/

They had earlier merged with the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) another group of paedos Tatchell was associated with.

In 1984 he contributed to a book called "The Betrayal of Youth" (For crossword fans, the title is an acrostic that spells The B.O.Y). Tatchell wrote the chapter entitled 'Questioning Ages of Majority and Ages of Consent.’

It was followed by a chapter called ‘Ends ‘and Means; How to Make Paedophilia Acceptable.’ The author was Roger Moody, at the time reported to be a PIE executive. One of his contributions to consent law was the following: ‘Specifically, this means we don’t work to lower the age of consent, but to abolish it, and we don’t argue that rights over kids be transferred from courts to parents, but that the only people who have the right to kid’s rights – are the kids themselves.’
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cr...w-intolerance/

PIE were reportedly formed in Scotland by the humanist Ian Dunn in 1960s. Tatchell would later write Dunn's obituary.

Ian Dunn's exposure by the Sunday Mail.
http://spotlightonabuse.files.wordpr...ymail25384.jpg

Meanwhile Tatchell along with the pro-paedophilia groups allied themselves in the 70's with National Council For Civil Liberties who lobbied at the time:

"Childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in with an adult," it read, "result in no identifiable damage … The real need is a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage."
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...-desires-light

This is line with Tatchell's own words in a letter published in The Guardian in 97 (in full)

ROS Coward (Why Dares to Speak says nothing useful, June 23) thinks it is 'shocking' that Gay Men's Press has published a book, Dares To Speak, which challenges the assumption that all sex involving children and adults is abusive. I think it is courageous.

The distinguished psychologists and anthropologists cited in this book deserve to be heard. Offering a rational, informed perspective on sexual relations between younger and older people, they document examples of societies where consenting inter-generational sex is considered normal, beneficial and enjoyable by old and young alike. Prof Gilbert Herdt points to the Sambia tribe of Papua New Guinea, where all young boys have sex with older warriors as part of their initiation into manhood. Far from being harmed, Prof Herdt says the boys grow up to be happy, well-adjusted husbands and fathers.

The positive nature of some child-adult sexual relationships is not confined to non-Western cultures. Several of my friends - gay and straight, male and female - had sex with adults from the ages of nine to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great joy.

While it may be impossible to condone paedophilia, it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful.[4]

Which bring us back around to Dawkins who believes in a form of "mild paedophilia".

The same Dawkins who is an "Honory Associate" at The National Secular Society, the group who honored Tatchell as the "Secularist of The Year".
http://www.secularism.org.uk/honoraryassociates.html

---

So what I wanted to find out is why are the secularist society honoring such a man? What his connection to Dawkins is and why don't atheist speak out against their fellow atheists in such cases?

Another prominent example is the atheist founder of NAMBLA - the North American Man Boy Love Association.

Brown Bomber

In case anyone asks the CT is the attempted normalisation of Paedophilia.

Torakx

I really try to be open minded about this topic, but it's one of my last frontiers.
I didn't know about that tribe. It's an interesting situation for case study I suppose.
I am suprised (don't know why) that these groups are able to be openly formed, advertsied and active.
I have done research in the past regarding groups like common purpose(which I forget all about now), but do remember there were groups in europe somewhere that advocated elderly people petting toddlers in sexual places and saying it was a good bonding experience!
Yes for who?!

Anyway I read qquickly through everything posted there, I am reading a lot of different pages at the same time, soforgive me if I missed it.
But is there any statements or anything published from Dawkins to show he is agreeable with any of this?

Brown Bomber

“I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild paedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today.”

Interview here:
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_a...ins-the-times#


Elsewhere in the interview Dawkins is essentially repeating the claims of the different groups, he is putting forward himself as living proof that:

" it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful.[4]" and "The real need is a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage."

I thought it was interesting that that there was uniformity in the statements and then there was also the personal links between Thatchell and Dawkins.

Torakx

Thats an interesting statement.
I think the context will be very important there.

I kind of agree with him on his point about racism.People back long ago were more ignorant I think and even today I put them down as just ignorant helpless individuals.
That I suppose does not make racism right, even then.

He says he can't condemn people of an earlier era etc etc
But he isn't that old either, so his childhood was quite recent....
His statement says he can't condemn them by the same standards.
But does not condone either ...I think.
Skirting a very fine line here though and I will have to read the rest of that interview to get a better idea of his motivations.


hang on.. did Dawkins say this?

" it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful.[4]" and "The real need is a change in the attitude which assumes that all cases of paedophilia result in lasting damage."

Brown Bomber

Torakx wrote: »

Thats an interesting statement.
I think the context will be very important there.

I kind of agree with him on his point about racism.People back long ago were more ignorant I think and even today I put them down as just ignorant helpless individuals.
That I suppose does not make racism right, even then.

He says he can't condemn people of an earlier era etc etc
But he isn't that old either, so his childhood was quite recent....
His statement says he can't condemn them by the same standards.
But does not condone either ...I think.
Skirting a very fine line here though and I will have to read the rest of that interview to get a better idea of his motivations.


hang on.. did Dawkins say this?

No Dawkins didn't say that. That was a so-called Human Rights group who alligned themselves with PIE and advocacy group for paedophiles. Incredibly this group is still in existence today.
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php

Dawkins was molested as a kid by his headmaster in his boarding school. He went on to say that this molestation was harmless to him and the rest of the boys at his school which echoes the message that "not all sex with children is harmful".

Brown Bomber

Here is another woman who wants to reduce the age of consent. Like Dawkins she is also concerned about the accused molesters. Here she disgustingly sniggers at this:

Recalling her torment, Paula described how Savile was sitting on a throne wearing a mask and robes, clutching a trademark cigar.

As he raped her, she described smelling stale smoke on his breath. During her horrific ordeal, one of the devil worshippers sneered: “You definitely fixed this one, Jim!”

Speaking at an address in North London, Paula said: “I was brought in to a dark cellar and made to stand in front of three men in a ­circle, with the man in the middle sitting on a throne-like chair in a bright gown with a cigar in his mouth. A man stood on either side in blue cloaks and masks.

“I was made to stand in front of this chair dressed in only a white gown with nothing underneath and to just stand there while this man looked over me blowing cigar smoke into my face making me feel very sick and terrified.

“Around this slightly raised circle were men and women dressed in black cloaks wearing masks and various costumes.

“I was then taken by the man smoking the cigar, who I recognised as Jimmy Savile, to an altar table where I was stripped of my gown and tied to the altar.

“Savile then climbed on to the table and raped me. Others around him called out Satan’s name and laughed hysterically and were worked up into a frenzy.”
Paula said she was taken blindfolded to the ritual at a secret venue so she could not identify where she was attacked. She went with the consent of her family, who she said were well-known satanists.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/371936/I-was-raped-at-13-by-Jimmy-Savile-in-satanist-ritual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DR6EEl0H64

Torakx

She makes a good arguement in part, when looking at the knee jerk reaction.
But the topic of when a child or teenager becomes a self regulating responsible adult does not even appear in that interview.
Just because in the 1800's they thought somethign was ok(marriage at age 12 for example), does not neccesarily mean it is now.So yeah also ignorant.
Really to understand the arguement better I would need to research more into psychology of teenagers and how sexual experience can effect future growth of the personality and choices in life.
A rather big topic I think.
Something I have often been curious about in relation to sexual abuse with kids and homosexuality for example.I still feel there is a strong link in some cases, but seem to be denied by apparently more informed individuals it seems so far.

I would like to get into a detailed discussion on all this stuff, but I understand from past experience on these forums, that some people find open discussion on sensitive topics to sometimes be in bad taste.
Hopefully my new signature will go some way to countering the stigma directed at me when I do accidently go a bit too far!

Lots to talk about though.
I'l try find some research that is acceptable for posting and informative at a later stage.

enno99

This is not a rabbit hole this is a warren of immeasurable proportions :eek:
I have read so much on this in the last few months that I thought my brain would melt

Sigourney

Wow. That passive smoking's really a problem.

Torakx

Sigourney wrote: »

Wow. That passive smoking's really a problem.

It's very late and I'm tired. I don't understand that statement lol

Brown Bomber

enno99 wrote: »

This is not a rabbit hole this is a warren of immeasurable proportions :eek:
I have read so much on this in the last few months that I thought my brain would melt

Yeah, it's overwhelming and part of you would prefer not to know about the depravity of some people.

Another interesting point about Dawkins is that he he'd done his bit to delegitimise children's testmonies who may have been victims of abuse in court.

We should be aware of the remarkable power of the mind to concoct false memories, especially when abetted by unscrupulous therapists and mercenary lawyers. The psychologist Elizabeth Loftus has shown great courage, in the face of spiteful vested interests, in demonstrating how easy it is for people to concoct memories that are entirely false but which seem, to the victim, every bit as real as true memories. This is so counter-intuitive that juries are easily swayed by sincere but false testimony from witnesses.’

From the God Delusion

SoulandForm

Ireland has been effectively a secular country since the Disestablishment of the Church of Ireland Act in 1869. While there was the possibility of the 26 counties making itself into an actual Catholic State in the 1930s the efforts in that direction were effectively defeated by DeValera (who strangely has been turned into some raging theocrat in the minds of quite a few people around today). Personally I agree with secularism strongly- I think Dante showed clearly the massive dangers of Ministers of Religion getting caught up in political affairs and the need for a clear separation of Church and State back in the 13 th century, yet he was a pious Christian.

The only people I have met in England who have in any way strong feelings about the disestablishment of the Church of England (something which I strongly support) were members of the "Jesus Army"- but they are not what is meant by Secularists in Ireland today at all. "Secularists" in Ireland today are rather militant anti-Theists.

porsche959

The German Green Party recently apologised for their part in promoting paedophilia. Read more The Green’s co-leader, Jurgen Trittin, was accused of signing off a 1981 pamphlet calling for the decriminalisation of sexual acts between adults and children “that occur without the use of threat or force”. People who promote paedophilia may not be paedophiles themselves, but they provide paedophiles with the intellectual justification to perpetrate crimes against children.
In the UK it is a crime to incite racial hatred – why doesn’t a similar law apply for inciting sexual crimes against children?

http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/paedophilia-in-academia-ken-plummer-university-of-essex/

seanie_c

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Here is another woman who wants to reduce the age of consent. Like Dawkins she is also concerned about the accused molesters. Here she disgustingly sniggers at this:

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if this sicko becomes a judge.
There's clearly something wrong with her.

She lacks empathy and probably psychotic.

porsche959

Social Work Today and the Peter Righton letter

Social Work Today was the in-house journal of the British Association of Social Workers (BASW) and the Residential Care Association (RCA).
Social Work Today published dozens of columns, letters and articles by ‘child care specialist’ Peter Righton throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Righton was later exposed as being part of a network of paedophiles who abused boys in children’s homes and schools across the UK.
In 1992, when the magazine reported on Righton’s trial for illegally importing child abuse material (Boy Photo Number One and Die Sammlungej), they failed to mention his long association with Social Work Today.

The only comment they published on the case was a letter which supports Righton, attacks the trial itself as being ‘obscene’, defends the right of adults to be ‘stimulated’ by child abuse, and asserts that the trade in images of child abuse is ‘a crime without a victim’.
Why would a serious and influential social work journal print this sickening letter without any opposing views? Was Righton the only paedophile that wrote for Social Work Today, or were his views shared by members of the editorial team?

The author of the letter, Dudley Cave, was a well known ‘gay rights activist’, or more accurately judging by his letter, a ‘gay and paedophile rights activist’. Peter Tatchell wrote his obituary for the Independent in 1999 . Tatchell also wrote an obituary for another supposed ‘gay rights activist’, Ian Campbell Dunn, who was in reality also the co-founder of the Paedophile Information Exchange. The obituary fails to mention his long career as a paedophile activist.

http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/social-work-today-and-the-peter-righton-letter/

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

No Dawkins didn't say that. That was a so-called Human Rights group who alligned themselves with PIE and advocacy group for paedophiles. Incredibly this group is still in existence today.
http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/index.php

Dawkins was molested as a kid by his headmaster in his boarding school. He went on to say that this molestation was harmless to him and the rest of the boys at his school which echoes the message that "not all sex with children is harmful".

It appears I scooped the MSM on this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10659169/Harriet-Harman-admits-paedophile-group-joined-her-civil-liberties-group-in-the-1970s.html

Harriet Harman admits paedophile group joined her civil liberties group in the 1970s

Harriet Harman, her husband Jack Dromey, a frontbench Labour MP, and Patricia Hewitt, a former Labour Cabinet minister, were officials at the National Council for Civil Liberties


Harriet Harman has been forced to deny supporting paedophilia after she admitted that a prominent child sex group was allowed to join a civil liberties organisation she helped run in the 1970s.




Miss Harman, Labour's deputy leader, said she and her husband Jack Dromey, also a frontbench Labour MP, were the victims of a "politically-motivated smear campaign" by the Daily Mail newspaper.

Miss Harman condemned the "horrific allegations" and issued a detailed rebuttal, to claims that the couple and Patricia Hewitt, a former Blairite Cabinet minister, had supported the now-defunct Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE).




Miss Harman and Mr Dromey broke their week of silence following a series of articles which alleged they were 'apologists for paedophilia' while officials at the National Council for Civil Liberties - known today as the campaign group Liberty - in the 1970s.


The Council controversially granted "affiliate" status to the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) in 1975, and put PIE's founded Tom O'Carroll on one of the Council's working groups.
Miss Harman was the Council's legal officer from 1978 to 1982, while Mr Dromey sat on its executive committee from 1970 to 1979. Miss Hewitt was the council's general secretary from 1974 to 1983.
Crucially Miss Harman admitted that the council had allowed PIE to join the Council as an affiliate "on payment of a fee" one of nearly 1,000 such bodies.

Says I To Bridey

Didn't our own David Norris have some questionable views too, which effectively torpedoed his presidential campaign when they came to light. Something along the lines of he could see merit in classical Greek practices