More Priory Halls

mrwhite2

Have been doing a bit of research into county councils handling of estates were there is no management company/unfinished estates. County councils have for years sat on this issue for fear of causing a political storm such as in the priory hall case and possibly highlighting dodgy planning decisions. Councils have not dealt with the issue of dodgy wastewater systems which is polluting groundwater, rivers and oceans all over the country. The responsibility for water/sewage is going to transfer over to Irish water at the start of 2014. Irish water will then be in charge of trying to sort out this huge mess. Irish water will then begin enforcement proceedings against homeowners and developers.

One major problem is that while legally 'polluter pays' and Irish water will have a case as in the priory hall case innocent people will get caught up in this. The county councils have left this issue for so long that families etc have bought lots of these houses from receivers/developers without releasing the consequences. Therefore those who will suffer won't be those that caused the problems. I have been told the problem is so bad that many houses will be evacuated as they are causing serious environmental pollution and the costs huge to fix.

If the county councils would have dealt with this issue earlier less people would be about to face this problem. There is a serious problem with decent family homes in the country so people have bought were maybe they shouldn't. Locally I was told off the record by someone in the council that they were concreting manholes to stop the sewage pushing up manholes.

ABajaninCork

I take it you haven't bought the house you were speaking of here. I really hope so...

mrwhite2

No but nearly did. Can't believe what's going on. Seriously there is no houses to buy in this area so I am left renting with 3 kids. Others I know are buying such houses due to these pressures. Self regulation seems to be a crazy system in the building industry. One senior council planner told a residents meeting if u report sewage issue we will evacuate the estate. Seems like Se no evil hear no evil

ABajaninCork

Might be a subject to bring up with your local councillor/TD, I think. Be interesting to see the kind of bull**** answers they give (if any).

Glad you saw sense about the house!

mrwhite2

Supposedly they all know about this but are all stalling until Irish Water comes into existence then they can say nothing to do with council. Would suspect many of these councilors were responsible for some of the dodgy planning themselves in first place.

Lantus

Local authorities are not problem solvers and they have virtually no accountability to anyone. There is no oversight. Councillors provide the illusion that we elect our council but they are really run by the executive branch which are highly paid government workers. I have heard of county directors removing councillors questions from chamber sessions if they don't like them and walking out if they feel in the least bit put out. There is nothing any councillor can do.

local authorities basically had 100% trust in construction to manage itself and will almost never uphold any breach of planning or building control issue. I heard of one council that broke its own conditions of planning by accepting a worthless paper bond instead of cash.

Its an utterly broken and worthless system.

There are dozens if not hundreds of priory halls out there which will go unknown to most. The county manager wants to cut the ribbon and rub shoulders with Irelands elite as do the many minions below him/her. Trying to get them to think about anything else except high flying things like just upsets them.

mrwhite2

Agreed but surely something can be done. To me the problem is one of the biggest the country is facing. Waterways are polluted and many apartment blocks are not fire safe. I told the council planners about pollution of a local river here marketed to tourists and sewage leaking into an environmental sensitive area. In fact when I told them what I had found they said we have know about them sewage leaks for years. I asked would they not liaise with residents/receiver about a way forward. They had no interest and what to sit on it I guess until they retire or move job or in the case of sewage till it is transferred to Irish water. Ironically when it transfers to irish water it will be the same people in charge but just without the political pressures.

Due to inaction for years and a lack of a decent supply of houses especially for families people are being tempted by these houses and are buying into the liabilities. Receivers are selling properties cheaply but SOLD AS SEEN, with no real legal documents. In some cases I think receivers are reluctant to engage with such issues as it would hugely devalue the stock they own. Instead they slowly sell dodgy properties slowly to unsuspecting people hence shifting the liabilities from the busted development companies.

sydthebeat

Councils will do very little against water way pollution because in a lot of cases they're the actually ones doing the polluting. Municipal treatment systems all over the country are out dated and working over capacity. The increase in population during the boom in satellite towns has these systems at breaking point and obviously there's no money left in the coffers to upgrade them.

As for the self certification system that has been in operation in Ireland, just wait until next March when the building control amendment comes into force where this self certification system is set into law and reinforced. Local authoritieswill be legal absolved from EVERY responsibility for checking Construction. Its an utter disgrace what the powers that be are doing.

mrwhite2

HOW do we get this issue in to the national debate. The whole priory hall debate was a disgrace as it was about saving political face. I felt sorry for those people too but the debate should have been widened to the whole planning process and self regulation. Should an audit not have been carried out of all apartment blocks after priory hall to check liability. Have the government set a precedent by offering prior hall residents a deal?

On the area of sewage one councillor told me Irish Water will be setup to try and make a profit for a few years then sold off to a French or uk water company. When the problems with pollution etc occur with these foreign water companies they won't care about evicting residents.

handlemaster

I think people living in apartment s that are not up to scratch won't say anything as their properties will be worth nothing after the fact is known to everyone

sydthebeat

The problem is they are blissfully unaware of the problems as they are not visible

Lantus

building construction is woefully outdated and counterproductive to people and the environment. Who would build a one off car in situ with 5 designers and multiple 'builders' and sub contractors who don't take any responsibility for the finished product and where there is no warranty?

Buildings should be manufactured under measurable and quantifiable conditions and then put together on site with almost minimum (ideally none) human intervention. We have the technology to do this. Virtually all of these problems can be designed out.

Ray Palmer

I am not seeing what this actually has to do with Priory Hall! There was nothing dodgy about the planning permission on the property. It was solely down to the construction. The issue of discovery was down to question of whether the engineer signed off correctly on construction.

It just sounds like you hare mixing up issues. I am sure some developments are handling water/waste incorrectly but I don't believe Priory Hall has that issue.

mrwhite2

Ray it is that due to self regulation in these cases that dodgy builders built houses that were non compliant with planning fire certs/wastewater management. Due to self regulation and no building control people may be unaware of problems. The difference with Priory Hall was that when the problems were identified they did what was legally right and evacuated people from the houses. My point is that planners of local councils are not enforcing these regulations at the moment as they don't want to open a can of worms as in the priory hall case. However the problem is that through time and due to a lack of quality housing supply many people are buying these properties shifting the liability from banks/receivers to ordinary citizens who just want a home. In the mean time there is huge pollution problems from sewage seeping into the ground water. On the fire issue the lack of a fire cert wont cause any problems until a fire/disaster happens.
My bet is that the banks/receivers are sitting on a huge supply of uncertified houses which if these issues came to light would hugely effect their balance sheets. Instead they prefer to drip feed them onto the market 'Sold As Seen' tempting people with cheap cash prices as you cant get a mortgage on them. The councils are simply kicking the can down the road for as long as possible and as in the case with waste water are waiting for Irish Water to be formed so its not a council issue.