No brand new petrol Mondeos

moonship

Why the hell ford ireland doesnt sell brand new mondeos with petrol engines? In uk they do similarly to the continent.
Great strong engines, cheaper cars, no dmf and dpf expenses!!
Whats happening in this country?

Skuxx

Friend of mine went looking for a Honda Accord and found the same thing, new ones can't be got with a petrol engine! She was also told Honda Ireland couldn't get her one and she would have to go to the UK!

BMJD

moonship wrote: »

Why the hell ford ireland doesnt sell brand new mondeos with petrol engines? In uk they do similarly to the continent.
Great strong engines, cheaper cars, no dmf and dpf expenses!!
Whats happening in this country?

Lowest CO2 model that a quick search of parkers.co.uk shows up is 149 g/km in the 1.6 EcoBoost, which equates to €390 per year to tax, not a whole lot really. Not sure why Ford won't offer that for sale here, the figures on it are quite good
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/ford/mondeo/hatchback-2007/50674/

S28382

Before we know it every car in Ireland will be running the Devils juice (diesel) Irish people are obsessed by small ltr diesel engines. The government punish you if you choose to own anything higher than 2ltr. :mad:

BMJD

S28382 wrote: »

The government punish you if you choose to own anything higher than 2ltr.

unless their fat ass is being driven around in it, of course :cool:

Del2005

S28382 wrote: »

Before we know it every car in Ireland will be running the Devils juice (diesel) Irish people are obsessed by small ltr diesel engines. The government punish you if you choose to own anything higher than 2ltr. :mad:

Read recently that the devils juice will be killed off by the next Euro engine regulations. Petrols are catching up quickly on CO2 and have always been better on the stuff that affects people, diesels are filthy for everything bar CO2.

MetzgerMeister

Del2005 wrote: »

Read recently that the devils juice will be killed off by the next Euro engine regulations. Petrols are catching up quickly on CO2 and have always been better on the stuff that affects people, diesels are filthy for everything bar CO2.

Not to mention that CO2 is NOT a pollutant

Drummerboy08

Mondeo is kinda in no man's land at the minute - with the new model coming next year, I'd imagine there will be a petrol model.

ba_barabus

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Mondeo is kinda in no man's land at the minute - with the new model coming next year, I'd imagine there will be a petrol model.

Isn't it getting the 1liter engine? They're selling it already under a different name in the States. Its HUGE

Spark Plug

Their decision not to offer the 140bhp diesel in the Focus suggests a rather narrow policy even in terms of diesels.

dmc17

ba_barabus wrote: »

Isn't it getting the 1liter engine? They're selling it already under a different name in the States. Its HUGE

That must be the Irish version. 1ltr engine and a set of pedals to accompany it.

Atlantic Dawn

Suprised they won't get it in order.

Leonard Hofstadter

Spark Plug wrote: »

Their decision not to offer the 140bhp diesel in the Focus suggests a rather narrow policy even in terms of diesels.

You can't even get the 115 bhp 1.6 unless you order the most expensive Titanium model.

Still, that's what the UK is for, where at least you can still get a good choice of engines (including plenty of petrols in the Mondeo). In the UK only 50% of new cars are diesel, and that is reflected in the wider choice of models available with petrol engines over there.

The simple truth is that even if petrol engined Mondeos were available in Ireland, nobody would buy them. Toyota offers a petrol engine in the Avensis in Ireland but 97% of Avensis sold are diesel.

corktina

shouldn't be a surprise when you look at who buys Mondeo's and Avensis's (Avensii?) Fleet cars .

moonship

BMJD wrote: »

Lowest CO2 model that a quick search of parkers.co.uk shows up is 149 g/km in the 1.6 EcoBoost, which equates to €390 per year to tax, not a whole lot really. Not sure why Ford won't offer that for sale here, the figures on it are quite good
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/ford/mondeo/hatchback-2007/50674/

Exactly and its almost 2k cheaper than cheapest diesel in uk! 160ps turbo petrol, must be really nice to drive

So co2 emissions (motor tax) is not a problem neither mpg, i think ford dealers just make more money from selling diesel. Similar thing is with Dacia Duster, why dont they sell petrol model? much cheaper that "cheapest suv on the market" diesel for 15990

lomb

Isnt BIK tax on co2 also? It is in the UK. Diesel has lower co2 hence regardless of miles has lower BIK, better resale , lower lease rates, cheaper fuel etc.
Most Passats/ Accords/ Avensis/ Mondeos/ A4s are bought by businesses hence all the above come into play.
In fairness some of the new diesels are fine. Ie Audis 2l Tdi is a very smooth economical and revvy power unit.

Diesels are great in heavier cars like Mondeos where you will be hit hard with petrol. You cant beat a petrol on superminis (due to lower cost/complexity of petrols/lower fuel consumption on one tonne cars) ,sports cars or GTs though. Horses for courses.

BMJD

Ford Ireland are weird, any model in the range I've considered over the last few years all seem to be woefully underpowered. We were considering a B-MAX as a family car last year, mainly because of those cool doors, I think 90bhp was the most powerful version on offer at the time. I see they have the 1.0 turbo now, but that's only in 100bhp form. There's a 105bhp auto, but it's over €27k :eek:
Only diesel is a 75bhp 1.5. Thanks but no thanks.

moonship

lomb wrote: »

Isnt BIK tax on co2 also? It is in the UK. Diesel has lower co2 hence regardless of miles has lower BIK, better resale , lower lease rates, cheaper fuel etc.
Most Passats/ Accords/ Avensis/ Mondeos/ A4s are bought by businesses hence all the above come into play.
In fairness some of the new diesels are fine. Ie Audis 2l Tdi is a very smooth economical and revvy power unit.

Diesels are great in heavier cars like Mondeos where you will be hit hard with petrol. You cant beat a petrol on superminis (due to lower cost/complexity of petrols/lower fuel consumption on one tonne cars) ,sports cars or GTs though. Horses for courses.

Actually co2 emissions of ford petrols are nearly the same like diesels! mpg? will take years for usual motorist to fill the difference in price of petrol vs diesel...

R.O.R

moonship wrote: »

Actually co2 emissions of ford petrols are nearly the same like diesels! mpg? will take years for usual motorist to fill the difference in price of petrol vs diesel...

If you ignore the resale value difference.


Ford were selling Petrol Mondeo's in 2008 & 2009. Nobody bought them, so Ford stopped selling them in Ireland.

What is the point of adding a car to the price list, when it isn't going to sell?

Chris_Heilong

Joe public is to blame, we need a show like watchdog to highlight why diesel is not always the best choice, some thing Joe can talk about down the pub.

BMJD

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/Mondeo/2.3-TITA/36313694744777000/advert?channel=CARS

€1200 a year to tax, 160bhp :eek::eek:

MadYaker

I thought you used to be able to get the c max with the engine from the focus st in it

bazz26

R.O.R wrote: »

If you ignore the resale value difference.


Ford were selling Petrol Mondeo's in 2008 & 2009. Nobody bought them, so Ford stopped selling them in Ireland.

What is the point of adding a car to the price list, when it isn't going to sell?

Indeed, some people seem to forget that these companies are in business to sell what people want and make money from it. The majority of people here want diesel because they see it as the cheapest option so what is the point in offering alternatives if nobody wants them? The same as a restaurant having lobster on the menu everyday, nobody ordering it so they are stuck with it. The same logic applies to any business.

bazz26

BMJD wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/Mondeo/2.3-TITA/36313694744777000/advert?channel=CARS

€1200 a year to tax, 160bhp :eek::eek:

I think the even bigger tragedy there is that they think they will get anywhere near €15k for that.

Noccy_Mondy

As previously mentioned, there will be a 1 litre ecoboost petrol engine introduced when the new model comes out in late 2014/ early 2015. It says it will be powerful enough to lug the car around, but i'm not so optimistic :rolleyes:

yer man!

ba_barabus wrote: »

Isn't it getting the 1liter engine? They're selling it already under a different name in the States. Its HUGE

Ya the Ford Fusion, very very popular over there at the minute. Also how come Ford never sold the Taurus here? they look like really nice cars and a bit more luxurious than the mondeo.

Del2005

bazz26 wrote: »

Indeed, some people seem to forget that these companies are in business to sell what people want and make money from it. The majority of people here want diesel because they see it as the cheapest option so what is the point in offering alternatives if nobody wants them? The same as a restaurant having lobster on the menu everyday, nobody ordering it so they are stuck with it. The same logic applies to any business.

It's not as if they need to keep them in stock, unlike your restaurant, as the car is just ordered from the factory and that doesn't care what engine you want. Having a price on their spreadsheet doesn't cost Ford Ireland anything. It's like saying you can have any colour as long as it's black, which he never said.

Casati

R.O.R wrote: »

If you ignore the resale value difference.


Ford were selling Petrol Mondeo's in 2008 & 2009. Nobody bought them, so Ford stopped selling them in Ireland.

What is the point of adding a car to the price list, when it isn't going to sell?

They didnt sell petrols as engine options were terrible- a 1.6 with a weezy 110 bhp, a dated 2.0 and if you wanted an auto you needed the 2.3 which drank petrol.

I was in the States recently and rented a Fusion with the 1.6T engine/ auto and was massively impressed with it- drive much better than the 2.0 diesel powershift. The 1.6t available in the U.K. is a peach of an engine- 160bhp and still lowish tax of 390 per year

hi5

Del2005 wrote: »

It's not as if they need to keep them in stock, unlike your restaurant, as the car is just ordered from the factory and that doesn't care what engine you want. Having a price on their spreadsheet doesn't cost Ford Ireland anything. It's like saying you can have any colour as long as it's black, which he never said.

It might have something to do with servicing and not having to invest in special training and equipment for petrol models?

Back in 2005 when double cabs pickups were all the rage with €50 VRT, I tried to order a single cab Mitsubishi l200 from a dealer, he told me I could have a double cab or nothing and he wouldn't order one for me.
I went abroad and got one.

Alun

R.O.R wrote: »

What is the point of adding a car to the price list, when it isn't going to sell?

How much does it really cost to add a car to a price list, honestly? Bugger all. They're made in RHD anyway, so the extra cost of them selling them to the people who want them is as close to zero, so why not do it? Annoys the hell out of me too.

Alun

bazz26 wrote: »

The same as a restaurant having lobster on the menu everyday, nobody ordering it so they are stuck with it. The same logic applies to any business.

Not the same at all. They don't have to order in masses of cars hoping that people will buy them, just let people order what they want. How difficult is that?

ofcork

corktina wrote: »

shouldn't be a surprise when you look at who buys Mondeo's and Avensis's (Avensii?) Fleet cars .

Was looking at the sales stats as hoping to buy a 2012 avensis and only 57 petrols sold last year compared to over 2800 diesels!

bazz26

Alun wrote: »

Not the same at all. They don't have to order in masses of cars hoping that people will buy them, just let people order what they want. How difficult is that?

Standard spec on Irish cars could be different to other rhd countries, it might not be as simple as just placing an order for one with a petrol engine. Manufacturer's tune their production lines to the demands of the various markets they are selling in, the section of the assembly line that produces Irish spec cars may not be setup to handle petrol engines anymore since demand dropped. Who knows, maybe Ford decided it just wasn't cost effective?

RedorDead

Adding to the pricelist and making available for order is an administration headache only. Not real extra cost in it apart from labour cost of getting someone to set model up, price it with head office in germany/usa/uk or wherever and then declaring it to revenue.

No excuse for it really. Even if the mix is small it should be left on the pricelist to offer consumers choice.

MetzgerMeister

RedorDead wrote: »

Adding to the pricelist and making available for order is an administration headache only. Not real extra cost in it apart from labour cost of getting someone to set model up, price it with head office in germany/usa/uk or wherever and then declaring it to revenue.

No excuse for it really. Even if the mix is small it should be left on the pricelist to offer consumers choice.

You have a choice....you can have any car you want....as long as it's a bloody rotten diesel :pac:

corkgsxr

S28382 wrote: »

Before we know it every car in Ireland will be running the Devils juice (diesel) Irish people are obsessed by small ltr diesel engines. The government punish you if you choose to own anything higher than 2ltr. :mad:

Soon 1.6 will be the new 530d. Ah its grand and pokey

captainspeed wrote: »

You can't even get the 115 bhp 1.6 unless you order the most expensive Titanium model.

Still, that's what the UK is for, where at least you can still get a good choice of engines (including plenty of petrols in the Mondeo). In the UK only 50% of new cars are diesel, and that is reflected in the wider choice of models available with petrol engines over there.

The simple truth is that even if petrol engined Mondeos were available in Ireland, nobody would buy them. Toyota offers a petrol engine in the Avensis in Ireland but 97% of Avensis sold are diesel.

Your not screwed for tax on a petrol in England

moonship wrote: »

Actually co2 emissions of ford petrols are nearly the same like diesels! mpg? will take years for usual motorist to fill the difference in price of petrol vs diesel...

Its not co2 is the problem its nox emissions. Petrols are tiny diesels are very high.

unkel

bazz26 wrote: »

The same as a restaurant having lobster on the menu everyday, nobody ordering it

Something I will never understand about the Irish. Lobsters, oysters, salmon everywhere, but people only ate potatoes so they died when the potato crop failed

Sorry for off topic

colm_mcm

unkel wrote: »

Something I will never understand about the Irish. Lobsters, oysters, salmon everywhere, but people only ate potatoes so they died when the potato crop failed

Sorry for off topic

Indeed, I lived quite near to the sea and anecdotally I heard that people were reluctant eating fish during the famine. Even now the older generation refer to seafood as famine food.

Del2005

bazz26 wrote: »

Standard spec on Irish cars could be different to other rhd countries, it might not be as simple as just placing an order for one with a petrol engine. Manufacturer's tune their production lines to the demands of the various markets they are selling in, the section of the assembly line that produces Irish spec cars may not be setup to handle petrol engines anymore since demand dropped. Who knows, maybe Ford decided it just wasn't cost effective?

From watching too much How Stuff is Made type shows production lines are completely flexible these days. Paint is the only place where they batch, that's changing already in some factories, cars together so the line runs on the colour not the engine.

Ford will make whatever a dealer orders. The days of having cars pre made are over since manufacturers got caught out a few years ago in the credit crunch.

Alun

Del2005 wrote: »

Ford will make whatever a dealer orders. The days of having cars pre made are over since manufacturers got caught out a few years ago in the credit crunch.

Back when I lived in Germany and Netherlands, the dealers there never seemed to have very many new cars in stock at all, and in some cases if you wanted to arrange a test drive, esp. for an unusual engine spec or engine/ transmission combo, they sometimes had to borrow a car from the importer! So if you wanted a new car you just ordered it to your own spec and waited. Seemed perfectly normal to me.

Here though it still seems to be the norm to order in massive numbers of new cars, pre-register them and leave them on the forecourt hoping someone will buy them. Doesn't seem to make a whole lot of business sense to me to be honest. My local Toyota dealer can hardly be seen for the row of 131 registered cars lined up in front of it. There's plenty of others parked up round the back too.

hi5

bazz26 wrote: »

Standard spec on Irish cars could be different to other rhd countries, it might not be as simple as just placing an order for one with a petrol engine. Manufacturer's tune their production lines to the demands of the various markets they are selling in, the section of the assembly line that produces Irish spec cars may not be setup to handle petrol engines anymore since demand dropped. Who knows, maybe Ford decided it just wasn't cost effective?

Indeed, Euro spec, RHD and speedo in km/h, Ireland and Malta only.

Leonard Hofstadter

hi5 wrote: »

Indeed, Euro spec, RHD and speedo in km/h, Ireland and Malta only.

Cyprus as well.

Saab Ed

Distributors and dealers taking a lot of stick here but the reality is they only bring in what people will actually buy. I've seen lots of versions of various different models being brought in here over the years only to be discontinued becuase - you've guessed it - nobody bought them.

If they dont sell then they end up being pre reged, put out on hire drive or used as a demo. The numbers dont stack up. They all end up as mega discounted, far more so than a UK imported car new, but there's still no que at the dealer to buy them.

The simple fact is that the people in here talking about one of these "not available cars" represent about the grand total of people looking to buy one them.


On a seperate note, I personally am very worried about the availability of a potential used car that I'd like to buy in 3/4/5 years time as I hate diesel. Despite the leap forward in diesel performance over the years, the simple fact remains that they're still far to heavy, have too narrow of a power band, to surgey in power delivery and too noisy. All in all they're just not satisfying to drive. Petrol still rules and as pointed out earlier, with the improvemnet in Co2 figures, I'm sure its not long till we see the return to dominance of the petrol motor ...... hopefully :P

Alun

Saab Ed wrote: »

Distributors and dealers taking a lot of stick here but the reality is they only bring in what people will actually buy. I've seen lots of versions of various different models being brought in here over the years only to be discontinued becuase - you've guessed it - nobody bought them.

If they dont sell then they end up being pre reged, put out on hire drive or used as a demo. The numbers dont stack up. They all end up as mega discounted, far more so than a UK imported car new, but there's still no que at the dealer to buy them.

So why buy in shedloads of cars at all then, seeing as most production lines are flexible and set up for producing every different model variation anyway? Why not just let people order them a la carte?

Saab Ed

Alun wrote: »

So why buy in shedloads of cars at all then, seeing as most production lines are flexible and set up for producing every different model variation anyway? Why not just let people order them a la carte?

Well I dont have the definitive answer to the question but I suppose the first answer is that none of the manufacturers bring in shed loads of cars at all now. Most of them stock very little apart from in the up coming months i.e Nov-Feb and even at that most of it is pre ordered.

As far as I know, you cant just punch a button and order one car here and there with any of the manufacturers. Each market gets allocations on production lines. You cant just say I'd like one high spec, two litre car in red. Most markets are commited to X number of car orders in any allocation. Should they not have all of that allocation sold then they still have to fill their orders. They're not gonna do that with cars people by and large dont want. They'll fill it with sellable stock. Ypou'd have to commit to a certain number of the high spec cars and I dont think any importer is gonna do that in this market at the moment, especially one thats been abaonded by the consumer so greatly over the last few years.

Thats my own opinion by the way and doesnt represent any known strategy of any Irish importer.

ofcork

This whole consumer mindset needs to be changed so this idea of ill buy a diesel because it will be cheaper to run,alot of these used cars will give people grief down the line and anyone who wants a petrol version will continue to look outside the irish market.

Leonard Hofstadter

Saab Ed wrote: »

Distributors and dealers taking a lot of stick here but the reality is they only bring in what people will actually buy. I've seen lots of versions of various different models being brought in here over the years only to be discontinued becuase - you've guessed it - nobody bought them.

If they dont sell then they end up being pre reged, put out on hire drive or used as a demo. The numbers dont stack up. They all end up as mega discounted, far more so than a UK imported car new, but there's still no que at the dealer to buy them.

The simple fact is that the people in here talking about one of these "not available cars" represent about the grand total of people looking to buy one them.

On a seperate note, I personally am very worried about the availability of a potential used car that I'd like to buy in 3/4/5 years time as I hate diesel. Despite the leap forward in diesel performance over the years, the simple fact remains that they're still far to heavy, have too narrow of a power band, to surgey in power delivery and too noisy. All in all they're just not satisfying to drive. Petrol still rules and as pointed out earlier, with the improvemnet in Co2 figures, I'm sure its not long till we see the return to dominance of the petrol motor ...... hopefully :P

But if it is as simple as RedorDead says to offer a wider choice of models, then I don't see any reason why Irish motorists are excluded from certain engine and trim combinations?

I mean, BMW sells petrol engined 5 series in Ireland, despite the fact that of the 1,579 5 series sold to the end of September, just four (yes, the number really is that low) of them were petrol. While I wouldn't buy a new petrol 5 series because of the resale value (and the fact you have to go to a 535i to get a proper one with the six cylinders, whereas you only have to go to a 530d to get six cylinders with the diesel, and 258 bhp is still a lot of power), it is nice to know that if I wanted a petrol 5 series, I could have one.

I don't expect an importer to keep petrol Mondeos in stock (because next to nobody would buy them), but at the very least consumers should have the choice of petrol power if they so want it.

Of course, with poor pricing on the part of importers, it's no wonder so few people buy petrol. Last time I checked, a petrol powered Focus was just €300 cheaper than the diesel, so it's no wonder nobody buys it. In Germany the difference is about €2,000 - now that kind of figure would be enough to persuade some to buy petrol instead.

Anyway, as you said, now that petrols are getting increasingly cleaner, and therefore petrols will get cheaper and cheaper to buy relative to diesels, not to mention the differences in motor tax will be getting smaller and smaller, hopefully there will be more and more petrols bought over the next few years.

MuppetCheck

It might be 300 cheaper but you have to take into account the fact that the diesels have dropped significantly in price in the last 5 years. That's why there's a similarity there in prices. That implies they haven't changed the pre-tax pricing structure much in recent years.

Ford seem to have a very limited range compared to the UK. Even in the focus you can only get a detuned 2 litre diesel with an auto box. If the standard 2 litre was available without being detuned and in a manual it would be a decent motor. It's a similar story with other models in their range.

At the end of the day someone has to foot the bill when they eventually heavily discount a car to sell it. With miniscule numbers being sold it's not worth the risk. I remember a time when there was 5k off the list price of new petrol Mondays to shift them. If you look at other makes listing petrol models in that class - Toyota, Opel, VW they are hardly flying out the door. In fact they are being sold off cheap, they are close on sale proof used and to buy one unless you are specifically wanting a petrol is financial suicide.

RedorDead

captainspeed wrote: »

But if it is as simple as RedorDead says to offer a wider choice of models, then I don't see any reason why Irish motorists are excluded from certain engine and trim combinations?

I mean, BMW sells petrol engined 5 series in Ireland, despite the fact that of the 1,579 5 series sold to the end of September, just four (yes, the number really is that low) of them were petrol. While I wouldn't buy a new petrol 5 series because of the resale value (and the fact you have to go to a 535i to get a proper one with the six cylinders, whereas you only have to go to a 530d to get six cylinders with the diesel, and 258 bhp is still a lot of power), it is nice to know that if I wanted a petrol 5 series, I could have one.

I don't expect an importer to keep petrol Mondeos in stock (because next to nobody would buy them), but at the very least consumers should have the choice of petrol power if they so want it.

Of course, with poor pricing on the part of importers, it's no wonder so few people buy petrol. Last time I checked, a petrol powered Focus was just €300 cheaper than the diesel, so it's no wonder nobody buys it. In Germany the difference is about €2,000 - now that kind of figure would be enough to persuade some to buy petrol instead.

Anyway, as you said, now that petrols are getting increasingly cleaner, and therefore petrols will get cheaper and cheaper to buy relative to diesels, not to mention the differences in motor tax will be getting smaller and smaller, hopefully there will be more and more petrols bought over the next few years.

I can only speak for our company but it is that easy. We would never keep any in stock but they are available for special order should customers want them.

We would price petrol by taking the higher running costs associated into account with petrol cars (consumption, tax, fuel prices etc) over a 3 year period and try to balance that out against diesel. You cannot take resale value into account unfortunately - the market needs to correct that.