ACC closing down

viztopia

What do people think of ACC closing down? will it be a good or a bad thing? I
think it will be bad if you have a current account with them and you now have to go to the hassle of applying elsewhere. I think if you have a loan with them that may not be performing too good there may be the potential of a writedown if there was a chance that you could some how clear the loan. this is something that bank of Scotland are doing on commercial loans. What do you think?

red bull

have a loan with them they dont do right downs full stop. dont really know what happens next

bob charles

red bull wrote: »

have a loan with them they dont do right downs full stop. dont really know what happens next

what bank are best for write downs :mad:

Farmer Pudsey

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/acc-bank-job-losses-1146862-Oct2013/

Hard to make out what they are at I know that they were over exposed to the property bust but you would imagine that the business name ACC was worth something. Have two loan with them but they have a superb interest rate will be sorry to see them go less compedition in the market. They had a name for being tough on defaulters

Sam Kade

I had loans with them in the past, nothing now so it doesn't make any difference to me.

Farmer Pudsey

Sam Kade wrote: »

I had loans with them in the past, nothing now so it doesn't make any difference to me.

Until the next time you need a loan we be left with the two shysters AIB and BOI. ACC used to keep manners on them while owned by Rabobank. I orginally borrowed from BOI and they refused to reduce there margin when they were droping ACC did a deal and took a second loan off them ( probally should not have) rates very compeditive

C4d78

I've two exiting loans with ACC. Will things continue as normal with these loans or will they be looking to transfer them to another bank? Will rates be affected?

bob charles

they are staying in the ag market, probably we are a soft touch for a few quid, or are rabbo going back to their roots

Farmer Pudsey

C4d78 wrote: »

I've two exiting loans with ACC. Will things continue as normal with these loans or will they be looking to transfer them to another bank? Will rates be affected?

They may try selling to another bank however rate will depend on terms and conditions mine are linked to the interbank rate and that is all I will be paying.

benjydagg

viztopia wrote: »

What do people think of ACC closing down? will it be a good or a bad thing? I
think it will be bad if you have a current account with them and you now have to go to the hassle of applying elsewhere. I think if you have a loan with them that may not be performing too good there may be the potential of a writedown if there was a chance that you could some how clear the loan. this is something that bank of Scotland are doing on commercial loans. What do you think?

I have a loan with them. And current account. Switching current to B of I.
Loan is....Interest only, tracker (20 year) on a 2 bed roomed apartment. Probably worth 30% of what I paid.

I'm expecting a write down.

bob charles

benjydagg wrote: »

I'm expecting a write down.

do you mind me asking why?

I got a loan to buy cattle, many of them died and I lost allot of money - can I look for a write down?

keep going

Does this mean there will be no rabobank presence in ireland.if so I would be disappointed as I would have expected them to be active in agri lending in the future

benjydagg

It makes no difference to me. The bank is losing money on the loan so I presume they will want to get rid of me.

benjydagg

keep going wrote: »

Does this mean there will be no rabobank presence in ireland.if so I would be disappointed as I would have expected them to be active in agri lending in the future

I'm a farmer, and Acc renewed my overdraft last month, so
maybe Rabo is taking me on. Who knows..

bob charles

benjydagg wrote: »

It makes no difference to me. The bank is losing money on the loan so I presume they will want to get rid of me.

ACC are owned by Rabbo, do you not think the bank may prefer repayment of the loan instead of writing it off as a bad debt

benjydagg

bob charles wrote: »

ACC are owned by Rabbo, do you not think the bank may prefer repayment of the loan instead of writing it off as a bad debt

But the loan is losing money for them as the current rate is 1.75%.
Capital repayment is tied to a pension which is also non performing.
Let's see what happens.

bob charles

benjydagg wrote: »

But the loan is losing money for them as the current rate is 1.75%.
Capital repayment is tied to a pension which is also non performing.
Let's see what happens.

they may have fixed that loan with someone else at 1.5% like most good businesses would do, but of course were talking about banks. bank could take the view that in the long term pension my preform and more than cover the debt. tricky situation to be in

td5man

bob charles wrote: »

they may have fixed that loan with someone else at 1.5% like most good businesses would do, but of course were talking about banks. bank could take the view that in the long term pension my preform and more than cover the debt. tricky situation to be in

Rabobank are keeping the loans going.

Farmer Pudsey

benjydagg wrote: »

But the loan is losing money for them as the current rate is 1.75%.
Capital repayment is tied to a pension which is also non performing.
Let's see what happens.

Acc may not be losing money on the loan it is a triple 'A' rated bank so can still get money at the inter bank rate as opposed to Irish banks. They do not do discounts. As far as I know they are closing down the Irish operations with the exception of deposit taking.

Viewtodiefor

benjydagg wrote: »

I have a loan with them. And current account. Switching current to B of I.
Loan is....Interest only, tracker (20 year) on a 2 bed roomed apartment. Probably worth 30% of what I paid.

I'm expecting a write down.

Know a guy working with them and rabbo banks policy is to pursue the loans at all costs your chances of getting a write down are zero under present policy there I'd say.

td5man

Triple A rating is all they care about.

Farmer Pudsey

ACC/Rabobank is not covered by the bank guarantee scheme so they have bemn a lot harder on people that cannot pay there loans than Irish banks. They have in general not done writedowns mind neither are the Irish banks at present.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

do you mind me asking why?

I got a loan to buy cattle, many of them died and I lost allot of money - can I look for a write down?

Did they DIE in the factory

whitebriar

No bank will give a write down if your assets exceed the value of the loan.
If you examine Acc's books,you'll see they have done write downs or write off's like any other bank in circumstances where getting paid in full is impossible.

keep going

whitebriar wrote: »

No bank will give a write down if your assets exceed the value of the loan.
If you examine Acc's books,you'll see they have done write downs or write off's like any other bank in circumstances where getting paid in full is impossible.

Yes but they take everything they can get first-of all the banks they are not the crowd id like to have trouble paying,anybody else find the add running under this thread ironic

Dampintheattic

Back in the day I got a loan from them to build slatted shed. Manager there persuaded me to take out an endowment mortgage as the loan I would have lower repayments and the money being repaid as capital repayments would be invested in an investment fund. Theory was, investment fund would make a nice profit, and leave me with a nice lump of money spared when I would make the final installment on my loan.
Needless to say, the fund preformed like shiete, and I had to cough up the difference at final installment time.
That was an expensive lesson for me, on the vagaries of the stock market and the incompetence and greed of fund managers.
There ain't much from suckling, but it beats investing with these robbers!!

Brown Podzol

ACC will be missed from the Agri lending market. Their rates are very competitive and transparent, linked to Euribor, which is easily verified and readily available. All the other banks rates linked to cost of funds which is very difficult to independently verify.Dealing with broken banks, who were dishonest even when they were solvent, will take a lot of watching into the future.

benjydagg

As I said earlier. €200,000 borrowed. Value €60,000 now. The only security is the apartment. A write down is obvious. All banks are doing write downs, regardless of what the press says. That's why so many small parcels of land are coming up for sale. The banks are not closing on the deeds, they are getting the land owners to sell a portion and agreeing a write down.
As I said, if this loan goes the full term, capital will be due to be repaid from a matching pension fund, which is not possible.
At that stage, Rabo can have the deeds, related to the loan only.

Brown Podzol

benjydagg wrote: »

As I said earlier. €200,000 borrowed. Value €60,000 now. The only security is the apartment. A write down is obvious. All banks are doing write downs, regardless of what the press says. That's why so many small parcels of land are coming up for sale. The banks are not closing on the deeds, they are getting the land owners to sell a portion and agreeing a write down.
As I said, if this loan goes the full term, capital will be due to be repaid from a matching pension fund, which is not possible.
At that stage, Rabo can have the deeds, related to the loan only.

Personal guarantees?

bob charles

benjydagg wrote: »

As I said earlier. €200,000 borrowed. Value €60,000 now. The only security is the apartment. A write down is obvious. All banks are doing write downs, regardless of what the press says. That's why so many small parcels of land are coming up for sale. The banks are not closing on the deeds, they are getting the land owners to sell a portion and agreeing a write down.
As I said, if this loan goes the full term, capital will be due to be repaid from a matching pension fund, which is not possible.
At that stage, Rabo can have the deeds, related to the loan only.

And who carries the can for your incorrect decision that this was a good investment. People were happy to take the upside but when there is a down side kick up shindes. great attitude to live by

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

And who carries the can for your incorrect decision that this was a good investment. People were happy to take the upside but when there is a down side kick up shindes. great attitude to live by

The bank carry some of the can bob and the customer the rest. Benjy will have paid his interest and put in the agreed amount to the endowment if he gives the bank the deeds they sell, they lose, he loses whoever buys has an oppurtunity to make money, simples. Banks have no entitlement to get their money back and they lost sight of that when they were horsing out money left, right and centre. Up to now in this country they couldn't lose, they either got the money back in loan repayments or the taxpayer bailed them out, this time the hole is too big and they're going to suffer to some degree to. If they had been doing adequate stress tests and making sure that the customer was putting cash up in the order of 15-20% for these deals the wheels would not have come off the wagon to anything like the same degree.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

The bank carry some of the can bob and the customer the rest. Benjy will have paid his interest and put in the agreed amount to the endowment if he gives the bank the deeds they sell, they lose, he loses whoever buys has an oppurtunity to make money, simples. Banks have no entitlement to get their money back and they lost sight of that when they were horsing out money left, right and centre. Up to now in this country they couldn't lose, they either got the money back in loan repayments or the taxpayer bailed them out, this time the hole is too big and they're going to suffer to some degree to. If they had been doing adequate stress tests and making sure that the customer was putting cash up in the order of 15-20% for these deals the wheels would not have come off the wagon to anything like the same degree.

yes I have no problem with them having to suffer, but its the entitlement some people feel that the bang should carry all the loss and the punter that took the chance gets off scott free.

The bank finance me and they really havnt a clue of my business, if I lose big time do you not think I should have to carry any of the burden.

Bactidiaryl

I bought an investment property 8 yrs. ago. Now worth 25% of original cost. Secured against itself. No personal guarantees. I will pay it all back. €650 every month. I shook on it. I signed for it. It's my responsibility. Why. Because its who I am. And I like to sleep at night.

benjydagg

bob charles wrote: »

And who carries the can for your incorrect decision that this was a good investment. People were happy to take the upside but when there is a down side kick up shindes. great attitude to live by

What's the downside? I'm not complaining. Acc have been a great bank for the last 15 years that I have been with them. I've paid back all my farm borrowings and cleared my overdraft. This apartment was a bad decision by them to give 100% funding interest only, and a very bad decision by me as it was grossly overvalued due to section 27 tax relief.
The rental income covers the repayment, property tax and management fee. Maybe they will let it continue as is.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

yes I have no problem with them having to suffer, but its the entitlement some people feel that the bang should carry all the loss and the punter that took the chance gets off scott free.

The bank finance me and they really havnt a clue of my business, if I lose big time do you not think I should have to carry any of the burden.

The bank aren't carrying all of the loss in this case by any means but they should carry their share. They are acting as if they are entitled to be insulated from any loss no matter how irresponsibly they acted in the past that's what galls me.

loveta

Got my first ever loan of them in 97 for milk quota fixed it a 8.4% interest was below 4% by the time i had it paid for :-/
On a more serious note talk of ulster bank being wound up two, wont be much competition about and the ones that are left trying to get back into the black we all know whats going to happen there going to put the saddle on us.........

benjydagg

loveta wrote: »

Got my first ever loan of them in 97 for milk quota fixed it a 8.4% interest was below 4% by the time i had it paid for :-/
On a more serious note talk of ulster bank being wound up two, wont be much competition about and the ones that are left trying to get back into the black we all know whats going to happen there going to put the saddle on us.........

I started farming in 1992 with a £36,000 7 year loan from B of I. 18.75%!!!
Paid it all back, and left them in 1999 because they wouldn't fund the next purchase.
Moved across the road to Accbank. Great staff and tying the loans to Euribor was very fair.
Now I'm back where I started with B of I.
And they seem to want to do business..

st1979

benjydagg wrote: »

As I said earlier. €200,000 borrowed. Value €60,000 now. The only security is the apartment. A write down is obvious. All banks are doing write downs, regardless of what the press says. That's why so many small parcels of land are coming up for sale. The banks are not closing on the deeds, they are getting the land owners to sell a portion and agreeing a write down.
As I said, if this loan goes the full term, capital will be due to be repaid from a matching pension fund, which is not possible.
At that stage, Rabo can have the deeds, related to the loan only.

Think most people here seem to have very limited knowledge of what actually happens with sh1t loans. And what they stand to lose if it all goes tits up when borrowing.

You bought apartment/land/tractor whatever and gave deeds of the same against the loan. You do not stand to just lose the said item that they have security of.
If you have failed in your repayments they are first entitled to take possesion of said item and sell. Then any balance owing they can pursue. Now that depends on your personal circumstances. And guy in a council flat on the dole they would probably not bother about. They might register a judgement which lasts 7 yrs and if they found out he came into assets in the mean time the might go back to court and get a judgement order against those assets. In which case the judge may decide to allow the bank to take possesion of those assets and sell them to cover there balance and anything left over goes to you.

Now you are a nice juicy asset rich farmer, what do you think a bank that no longer cares about its good name (not that acc ever did) is going to do. Be careful man and get some decent advice on your debt. And remember that your solicitor and accountant are generally not really as clever as they think they are on this matter.

benjydagg

st1979 wrote: »

Think most people here seem to have very limited knowledge of what actually happens with sh1t loans. And what they stand to lose if it all goes tits up when borrowing.

You bought apartment/land/tractor whatever and gave deeds of the same against the loan. You do not stand to just lose the said item that they have security of.
If you have failed in your repayments they are first entitled to take possesion of said item and sell. Then any balance owing they can pursue. Now that depends on your personal circumstances. And guy in a council flat on the dole they would probably not bother about. They might register a judgement which lasts 7 yrs and if they found out he came into assets in the mean time the might go back to court and get a judgement order against those assets. In which case the judge may decide to allow the bank to take possesion of those assets and sell them to cover there balance and anything left over goes to you.

Now you are a nice juicy asset rich farmer, what do you think a bank that no longer cares about its good name (not that acc ever did) is going to do. Be careful man and get some decent advice on your debt. And remember that your solicitor and accountant are generally not really as clever as they think they are on this matter.

Thanks for all the advice. I won't do anything until we see what Acc are going to do. As I said, I have all debt up to date, and will continue to comply with the mortgage contract.

st1979

benjydagg wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice. I won't do anything until we see what Acc are going to do. As I said, I have all debt up to date, and will continue to comply with the mortgage contract.

Well they won't want to do anything with you then. But before you decide, or they decide to start playing games have your affairs in order to make it easier for them to decide not to pursue you to the ends of earth. If your case seems a no hoper for them they will be more inclined to deal with you if you had an extra carrot to offer. It might be like bank of scotland where deals will be done, But going in to the meeting as a nice juicy asset rich farmer wont help your cause.
Personally i don't think many deals will be done with this crowd based on past performance

whitebriar

benjydagg wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice. I won't do anything until we see what Acc are going to do. As I said, I have all debt up to date, and will continue to comply with the mortgage contract.

As st1979 says,you are a juicy asset rich farmer.
If you default on your appartment loan,ACC will come after your farm and you can kiss your livelyhood and life's work goodbye.
You took the decision to take the risk and sadly it has not worked out.

You have got to realise you have only 2 options if you own a farm valued more than your off farm debt.Either sell the non farm asset if you can refinance the defecit left from the sale or continue payingthe loan.

Ironically Acc will probably sell the loan book at a loss eventually but you will remain with the same commitment to the new hedge fund.