want to be vegetarian properly before going vegan, having some struggles though, plea

afterglow

Hi all

Really hope people won't be two pi**ed off with me, as I know I have posted here on a number of ocasions before.
I have made up my mind, that my definite goal is to go 100 percent vegan eventually, but I first need to be vegetarian for a while, and without falling off the waggon as it were. I need some tips on how to do this please.
I find I can usually only make it six months or so as a vegetarian, then I usually start with eating fish, and that's normally a slippery slope and leads to me eating everything again which I then feel awful about, how can I make sure this doesn't happen from now on?
I find it hard talking to my family and stuff about my choices re food, has anyone else struggled with this? I would also be curious to know, has anyone else failed a few times at vegetarianism, and then gone on to be vegan with success?
I am also concerned about the fact that I have a bit of a sweet tooth, so I'm wondering, are there tasty substitutes for all my favourite treats, chocolate etc?
I have mentioned also that I can't see before, so this will make shopping for food and stuff difficult, but I will find ways to overcome this. I know I mentioned in a previous thread that I had no inclination to cook, I now realise that this was wrong, and in order to be either vegan or vegetarian long term i will absolutely have to learn how to cook confidently, so my name is down on a course.
I guess I am just looking for advice on how to talk to family/friends, especially as I've failed before.
Also, any tips on how people conbat cravings for meet, and dairy if and when they happen would be very much appreciated.
Thanks so much, and again hope people won't mind two much me posting again

Zombienosh

Being a vegetarian or vegan isn't and shouldn't be something you have to do. You should only do it if you want to, and if you really want to do something you wouldn't need any motivation or discipline to stick to you chosen way of living.

Also the excuses about substitutes are just that, excuses. There are more meat and dairy substitutes now more than ever, Someone could become veggie and literally continue diet and lifestyle the exact same using substitutes if they wanted.

This all comes down to wanting to be vegan or thinking you'd like to be vegan.

Feathers

Zombienosh wrote: »

If you really want to do something you wouldn't need any motivation or discipline to stick to you chosen way of living.

Really? Fair play to you so.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I can easily see how people could make a moral decision to become veggie but struggle with the day-to-day of it & look for support - just like all those who try to give up alcohol/cigarettes, do more exercise, be better Christians (/insert other religion here).

Deciding to do something that you feel is right doesn't automatically make it easy.

afterglow

Feathers wrote: »

Really? Fair play to you so.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I can easily see how people could make a moral decision to become veggie but struggle with the day-to-day of it & look for support - just like all those who try to give up alcohol/cigarettes, do more exercise, be better Christians (/insert other religion here).

Deciding to do something that you feel is right doesn't automatically make it easy.

Hi Feathers.
Yes, what you say is exactly the reason for my post. I mistakenly thought this forum, among other things, was a place to look for support, but I guess I was wrong
I do not at all feel I have to be vegan, it is something I want to do. All I was doing in the post was outlining my struggles, and looking for some help. I also don't like the way another poster refered to what I was posting about being me "thinking you'd like to be vegan" how much more devaluing can you be of another person, never mind just a poster on an Internet forum?

freethink3r

Hi Afterglow

What makes you go down the slippery slope back to eating meat? I understand how you might find it difficult if some of your favourite foods consist of meat, and just because you think it's wrong to eat meat doesn't mean you don't find it tempting. Just keep in mind that even if you do go vegetarian for 6 months and then go back on it, you still a lot of good and saved more animals than if you were to continue that way.

Anyway...

I think it would be a good idea to try new vegetarian options. Try some of meatless products you think you might like - quorn (find that in most supermarkets), or anything from the veggie meat section in Holland and Barrett or The Health Store. There are vegetarian versions of plenty of things, some nicer than others. Veggie fish unfortunately isn't the best, but it's OK. It's just not as... smelly. It's a bit too close to chicken, I find, in terms of texture.

I just went vegan 3 months ago having been vegetarian for 6 years. I tried going vegan when I was 18 but I didn't know enough about nutrition or what to eat instead so I ended up not feeling well and having to just be vegetarian for the time being. It might be a good idea to read around first. I found "Vegan: The Ethics of Eating" and "Vegan For Life" really helped me. The first one goes into detail on the ethical reasons for going vegan and Vegan For Life talks more about nutrition than anything else. Vegan presentations on YouTube are great too; I really like Neal Barnard. If all else fails, "Earthling" will make you think twice about eating any animal products But of course, take things at your own pace. Sorry for the novel of a reply.

afterglow

Hi freethink3r. Thanks for your detailed reply.
I think the reason why i go back to eating stuff is just because i can't cook and i do love smoked fish, not so bothered by other meet though. I signed up for calleen patrick gudreau's 30 day vegan challenge, and left some way through, so will give that a go again i think, she has lots of resources there about everything conceivable one wishing to go vegan could think of. Milks, all about tofu, etc.
Where are you based, and do you find it easy to get vegan grosaries where you are? Did go to nourish once, and bought a bit of vegan food, but not to be cheap or anything, but I'm not made of money and did find it a little expensive there, do you find vegan food costs a lot?
Again thanks for your reply and I do intend on learning how to cook as I do think this plays a part in why I can't stay vegetarian and would play a part in why i wouldn't be able to stay vegan long term so it's on my list of things to do

freethink3r

Yes! It definitely is overpriced. I bought these nice little chicken pieces the other day and they cost 5 euro for just about... I'd say a cup, cup and a half of them. The soy milk I buy is 2 euro something for a litre when you can get cow's milk for 1.65 for 2 litres. But the thing about it is that it costs so much because it's seen as a specialty item. If a lot more people bought it, it wouldn't be as expensive. Therefore I spend the money on what I need and hope the prices go down in years to come (but who knows, they might not). I've read that a good way to save money is to look in Asian supermarkets, because they sell a lot of the same things but cheaper (since soy (soymilk, edamame, tofu are all made from soybeans) is a staple of Asian cuisine). A lot of what you'd need to stay healthy you'd get in legumes and vegetables and fruit, but you could always just get a multivitamin to cover some of your nutritional needs if you couldn't always afford everything. A 250ml glass of soymilk is 300mg of calcium, but I read that you should aim for 1000mg of calcium per day. Dried figs, sesame seeds and dark leafy greens contain calcium, but I don't think I'd be getting enough if I didn't have 2 portions of soy products a day, and if I did that I'd be drinking half a carton every day. I'm still working on the nutritional stuff, but every few days I take a supplement to save on the milk .

I think you also asked about sweet things in your original post... Read the ingredients list on the things you like. The original Oreos are actually vegan. So are bourban creams. You can get chocolate bars in The Health Store and Holland and Barrett, even advent calendars. Gingerbread is vegan. Hard boiled sweets. Umm... you can get these nice jellies called "katjes" in Tesco that are beef gelatin free. So there's plenty out there, some things specifically made for vegans, others unexpected things you'd never think of. Some Mr Kipling tarts are vegan (unless there's some animal products in the E numbers that I just don't know to look out for. For example, there's a food colouring in the red smarties that has ground beetle in it!) You can also get soy chocolate/strawberry/banana milk. There are places that sell vegan cakes, but you'd probably be better off making your own there - they're quite pricey. But if you didn't like baking it'd be OK as a once-off thing to buy.

freethink3r

I imagine that once you get liking other things, the temptation won't be there so much. When you talked about that, it sounded like someone on a diet who couldn't have all their favourite foods and felt deprived. Once you try lots of new things though, you won't feel deprived.

afterglow

freethink3r wrote: »

I imagine that once you get liking other things, the temptation won't be there so much. When you talked about that, it sounded like someone on a diet who couldn't have all their favourite foods and felt deprived. Once you try lots of new things though, you won't feel deprived.

I'd say your right yep. Now, all I need is someone to go shopping with me to read all the labels

nanook5

freethink3r wrote: »

Yes! It definitely is overpriced. I bought these nice little chicken pieces the other day and they cost 5 euro for just about... I'd say a cup, cup and a half of them. The soy milk I buy is 2 euro something for a litre when you can get cow's milk for 1.65 for 2 litres. But the thing about it is that it costs so much because it's seen as a specialty item. If a lot more people bought it, it wouldn't be as expensive. Therefore I spend the money on what I need and hope the prices go down in years to come (but who knows, they might not). I've read that a good way to save money is to look in Asian supermarkets, because they sell a lot of the same things but cheaper (since soy (soymilk, edamame, tofu are all made from soybeans) is a staple of Asian cuisine). A lot of what you'd need to stay healthy you'd get in legumes and vegetables and fruit, but you could always just get a multivitamin to cover some of your nutritional needs if you couldn't always afford everything. A 250ml glass of soymilk is 300mg of calcium, but I read that you should aim for 1000mg of calcium per day. Dried figs, sesame seeds and dark leafy greens contain calcium, but I don't think I'd be getting enough if I didn't have 2 portions of soy products a day, and if I did that I'd be drinking half a carton every day. I'm still working on the nutritional stuff, but every few days I take a supplement to save on the milk .

I think you also asked about sweet things in your original post... Read the ingredients list on the things you like. The original Oreos are actually vegan. So are bourban creams. You can get chocolate bars in The Health Store and Holland and Barrett, even advent calendars. Gingerbread is vegan. Hard boiled sweets. Umm... you can get these nice jellies called "katjes" in Tesco that are beef gelatin free. So there's plenty out there, some things specifically made for vegans, others unexpected things you'd never think of. Some Mr Kipling tarts are vegan (unless there's some animal products in the E numbers that I just don't know to look out for. For example, there's a food colouring in the red smarties that has ground beetle in it!) You can also get soy chocolate/strawberry/banana milk. There are places that sell vegan cakes, but you'd probably be better off making your own there - they're quite pricey. But if you didn't like baking it'd be OK as a once-off thing to buy.

There is Soya milk in Lidl for 85c per litre .It's great ! Might save you a bit of money if you didn't know it was there

freethink3r

nanook5 wrote: »

There is Soya milk in Lidl for 85c per litre .It's great ! Might save you a bit of money if you didn't know it was there

I didn't know about that :eek: Thanks nanook5. I've been spending 8 euro a week on milk alone.

nanook5

afterglow wrote: »

Hi all

Really hope people won't be two pi**ed off with me, as I know I have posted here on a number of ocasions before.
I have made up my mind, that my definite goal is to go 100 percent vegan eventually, but I first need to be vegetarian for a while, and without falling off the waggon as it were. I need some tips on how to do this please.
I find I can usually only make it six months or so as a vegetarian, then I usually start with eating fish, and that's normally a slippery slope and leads to me eating everything again which I then feel awful about, how can I make sure this doesn't happen from now on?
I find it hard talking to my family and stuff about my choices re food, has anyone else struggled with this? I would also be curious to know, has anyone else failed a few times at vegetarianism, and then gone on to be vegan with success?
I am also concerned about the fact that I have a bit of a sweet tooth, so I'm wondering, are there tasty substitutes for all my favourite treats, chocolate etc?
I have mentioned also that I can't see before, so this will make shopping for food and stuff difficult, but I will find ways to overcome this. I know I mentioned in a previous thread that I had no inclination to cook, I now realise that this was wrong, and in order to be either vegan or vegetarian long term i will absolutely have to learn how to cook confidently, so my name is down on a course.
I guess I am just looking for advice on how to talk to family/friends, especially as I've failed before.
Also, any tips on how people conbat cravings for meet, and dairy if and when they happen would be very much appreciated.
Thanks so much, and again hope people won't mind two much me posting again

OP I'm 15 and have been Vegetarian since I was about 12 .

At first I had your problem of talking to family about food choices but gradually it eased off .

A few things I would recommend that would help your vegetarianism :

QUORN(Sausages,Fillets,Chicken Burgers,Pieces,Gravy pies,Mince,Burgers,chicken fillets)There is a substitute for nearly everything.Most only take 15 mins in oven.

Linda McCartney Sausages (Suitable for Vegans too) 12 mins in the grill or 15 in oven

Tesco Frozen mixed vegetables-There is peas,cauliflower,broccoli and carrots ,Great with chips (Put in a pot of boiling water and take 5-7 mins to cook from frozen)

Birds eye Veggie burgers- Filled with vegetable such as the ones in Tesco frozen veg and is stuck together with potato and is wrapped in bread crumbs - Takes 15 mins in oven

Lidl chow mein noodles - Less than a €1 a pack -5 minutes in boiling water.Will do 2 servings

Lidl Garlic and corriander Naan bread 6-7 mins in the oven .

CHICKPEAS-I think I drink a cup of these everyday.Can be bough in Tesco for 50 odd cent - Great with Pasta.

I'm a sort of half vegan now - I drink soy milk,eat vegan cheese ,eat vegan yogurt ,eat vegan crisps,in fact most of my food is vegan .I'm finding it hard to cut things with milk out though!

From my experience(and my mother's complaint's) Veganism is a dear enough lifestyle .

I use Vegan mouthwash which costs €8 for 500ml bottle
Toothpaste is only €4 for a normal sized tube so that's not too bad
Cheese is something like €4.50 for 10 slices
Milk is only 85c per liter
Vegan smoothies from Tesco are like €3 for 100ml pouches
Vegan Chocolate yogurts are €1.40 per pack of 4
Shampoo and conditioner are expensive from what I've researched.
Body wash can be bought for €1.50 I think- In tesco
Handwash is like €1.50 too(Natural source raspberry and vanilla - It's the best smelling Handwash ever!!!)

One problem I'm having at the moment though is washing my hands in school,as I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt the rotten mess that comes from the dispensers does not have animal products in it .I don't know if this would be a problem to you in a work place

Don't forget to always read the labels too And don't forget gelatine is in nearly every type of sweets.Lollipops,haribos,Jelly,iced caramels and some hard sweets are coated in it .Of course you can get vegetarian sweets too!!

My rule is if it doesn't say Suitable for vegetarians on the box , I'm not eating it .

(Watch out for caramine too-in the red skittles and smarties too - It's made from crushed cochineal beetles-Eww!!)

afterglow

nanook5 wrote: »

OP I'm 15 and have been Vegetarian since I was about 12 .

At first I had your problem of talking to family about food choices but gradually it eased off .

A few things I would recommend that would help your vegetarianism :

QUORN(Sausages,Fillets,Chicken Burgers,Pieces,Gravy pies,Mince,Burgers,chicken fillets)There is a substitute for nearly everything.Most only take 15 mins in oven.

Linda McCartney Sausages (Suitable for Vegans too) 12 mins in the grill or 15 in oven

Tesco Frozen mixed vegetables-There is peas,cauliflower,broccoli and carrots ,Great with chips (Put in a pot of boiling water and take 5-7 mins to cook from frozen)

Birds eye Veggie burgers- Filled with vegetable such as the ones in Tesco frozen veg and is stuck together with potato and is wrapped in bread crumbs - Takes 15 mins in oven

Lidl chow mein noodles - Less than a €1 a pack -5 minutes in boiling water.Will do 2 servings

Lidl Garlic and corriander Naan bread 6-7 mins in the oven .

CHICKPEAS-I think I drink a cup of these everyday.Can be bough in Tesco for 50 odd cent - Great with Pasta.

I'm a sort of half vegan now - I drink soy milk,eat vegan cheese ,eat vegan yogurt ,eat vegan crisps,in fact most of my food is vegan .I'm finding it hard to cut things with milk out though!

From my experience(and my mother's complaint's) Veganism is a dear enough lifestyle .

I use Vegan mouthwash which costs €8 for 500ml bottle
Toothpaste is only €4 for a normal sized tube so that's not too bad
Cheese is something like €4.50 for 10 slices
Milk is only 85c per liter
Vegan smoothies from Tesco are like €3 for 100ml pouches
Vegan Chocolate yogurts are €1.40 per pack of 4
Shampoo and conditioner are expensive from what I've researched.
Body wash can be bought for €1.50 I think- In tesco
Handwash is like €1.50 too(Natural source raspberry and vanilla - It's the best smelling Handwash ever!!!)

One problem I'm having at the moment though is washing my hands in school,as I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt the rotten mess that comes from the dispensers does not have animal products in it .I don't know if this would be a problem to you in a work place

Don't forget to always read the labels too And don't forget gelatine is in nearly every type of sweets.Lollipops,haribos,Jelly,iced caramels and some hard sweets are coated in it .Of course you can get vegetarian sweets too!!

My rule is if it doesn't say Suitable for vegetarians on the box , I'm not eating it .

(Watch out for caramine too-in the red skittles and smarties too - It's made from crushed cochineal beetles-Eww!!)

Hi Nanook5
Wow, thanks so so so so so much for all that helpful stuff. I am not sure where I will end up shopping yet, but now I will know what to tell someone who comes with me re looking at labels and stuff. I know what you mean re soap, I am sure where I work that the same rule applies, but I mean, if you go to the loo, you have to wash your hands so what are ya gonna do like, but really sympathise with yu over that one.
I am not made of money so the vegan stuff might be a bit of a stretch, but like I said, want to focus on the vegetarianism first before going vegan, though there's a vegan challenge thing I want to take in nov so will probably do that which will mean some vegan shopping. God help the poor unfortunate that I drag along to that and ask incessantly about labels, definitely an instance where being blind is an inconvenience but nothing i can do

nanook5

afterglow wrote: »

Hi Nanook5
Wow, thanks so so so so so much for all that helpful stuff. I am not sure where I will end up shopping yet, but now I will know what to tell someone who comes with me re looking at labels and stuff. I know what you mean re soap, I am sure where I work that the same rule applies, but I mean, if you go to the loo, you have to wash your hands so what are ya gonna do like, but really sympathise with yu over that one.
I am not made of money so the vegan stuff might be a bit of a stretch, but like I said, want to focus on the vegetarianism first before going vegan, though there's a vegan challenge thing I want to take in nov so will probably do that which will mean some vegan shopping. God help the poor unfortunate that I drag along to that and ask incessantly about labels, definitely an instance where being blind is an inconvenience but nothing i can do

No problem !

MissFlitworth

I don't know if this will make your shopping easier but tesco.ie give lots of information down to ingredients, suitable for vegetarians or not (if the manufacturer included that information on the packaging), nutritional info on all their packaged goods

http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=254948273

http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=268723431


So even if you couldn't shop online you could do some research before you headed out & have a list of vegetarian friendly foods

spiralbound

afterglow wrote: »

Hi Nanook5
Wow, thanks so so so so so much for all that helpful stuff. I am not sure where I will end up shopping yet, but now I will know what to tell someone who comes with me re looking at labels and stuff. I know what you mean re soap, I am sure where I work that the same rule applies, but I mean, if you go to the loo, you have to wash your hands so what are ya gonna do like, but really sympathise with yu over that one.
I am not made of money so the vegan stuff might be a bit of a stretch, but like I said, want to focus on the vegetarianism first before going vegan, though there's a vegan challenge thing I want to take in nov so will probably do that which will mean some vegan shopping. God help the poor unfortunate that I drag along to that and ask incessantly about labels, definitely an instance where being blind is an inconvenience but nothing i can do

If you want to stick up a shopping list of what you normally get, I'm sure we could go through it here and give you brands that are vegetarian/vegan; e.g. if you normally get pasta, jar of pasta sauce, packet of sausages, we could say Roma pasta, de cecco pasta sauce, quorn or linda mccartney sausages. This might help until you get used to the brands you like. If you would prefer to PM me with a list I can give you suggestions, or stick it up here and we can all stick our oars in!

afterglow

spiralbound wrote: »

If you want to stick up a shopping list of what you normally get, I'm sure we could go through it here and give you brands that are vegetarian/vegan; e.g. if you normally get pasta, jar of pasta sauce, packet of sausages, we could say Roma pasta, de cecco pasta sauce, quorn or linda mccartney sausages. This might help until you get used to the brands you like. If you would prefer to PM me with a list I can give you suggestions, or stick it up here and we can all stick our oars in!

Hi Spiralbound
I normally would eat pasta and veggies, and like to eat a lot of currys so would need to be able to get the ingriedience for this. I wouldn't go that mad for sausages or meet in general to be honest, but good rice, sauces for currys and pasta and sauces for that would be pretty important. Also to know which chocolate and stuff is suitable for vegetarians would be good. If there are substitutes for sausages, bacon, etc that don't taste two bad, then it mightn't be any harm to know them if I ever feel like a cheaky breakfast.
Thanks to anyone who feels like adding their 2 cents worth in advance, all suggestions greatfully received

Maxthedm

nanook5 wrote: »

I use Vegan mouthwash which costs €8 for 500ml bottle
Toothpaste is only €4 for a normal sized tube so that's not too bad
Cheese is something like €4.50 for 10 slices
Milk is only 85c per liter
Vegan smoothies from Tesco are like €3 for 100ml pouches
Vegan Chocolate yogurts are €1.40 per pack of 4
Shampoo and conditioner are expensive from what I've researched.
Body wash can be bought for €1.50 I think- In tesco
Handwash is like €1.50 too(Natural source raspberry and vanilla - It's the best smelling Handwash ever!!!)

Vegan toiletries don't have to be that expensive. I get all of mine from Superdrug, which are great at labelling their stuff vegan or vegetarian. Mouthwash costs around a euro or two, you can get a bottle of shampoo or conditioner for under €2. All good stuff!
There's not that many in ROI, but there's one in Santry and I think there's one in Limerick (or there used to be at least).

spiralbound

afterglow wrote: »

Hi Spiralbound
I normally would eat pasta and veggies, and like to eat a lot of currys so would need to be able to get the ingriedience for this. I wouldn't go that mad for sausages or meet in general to be honest, but good rice, sauces for currys and pasta and sauces for that would be pretty important. Also to know which chocolate and stuff is suitable for vegetarians would be good. If there are substitutes for sausages, bacon, etc that don't taste two bad, then it mightn't be any harm to know them if I ever feel like a cheaky breakfast.
Thanks to anyone who feels like adding their 2 cents worth in advance, all suggestions greatfully received

Pasta - most of the standard dried pastas are vegan, e.g. Roma penne, Tesco own brand pastas - ingredients are easy to check, should be just wheat! All should be vegetarian.

Pasta sauce - I have a jar of de cecco napolitana sauce in the press that is vegan, I think in most cases sauces will be vegetarian - I don't remember which brands I sometimes buy, if you have a favourite one I can check next time I'm in a shop.

Rice - just plain rice? This should be okay

Curry sauce - I don't buy these, but can check for vegetarian/vegan brands if you like - any favourites?

Sausages - Linda McCartney (frozen section in supermarket, vegan), Dee's (chilled section in larger supermarkets, vegan), quorn (freezer, veggie)

Bacon - redwood, health food store, vegan

Fake meat slices - handy for a sandwich - redwood, health food shop, vegan, or quorn, supermarket, veggie. Quorn also do chicken chunks, fillets etc that are handy.

Chocolate - don't know, I only buy vegan, most is probably vegetarian?

--LOS--

I don't really relate OP because I couldn't imagine 'falling off the wagon' and I don't crave anything I can't have, being vegan is surprisingly easy tbh! I think when people have the mindset that they want to cut down on something it's a lot harder, but when you have the mindset that you just can't have something it's not even an issue I find. For instance when I was vegetarian I tried to eat as little dairy as possible, but because I could still have it I did, now that I'm vegan it's not even an issue, I'm not lusting after cheese The choice isn't even there so it's not something that enters my head. I wish I went vegan a long time ago, because it is easy and I'm not punishing myself allowing myself access to something I don't want to have, which is what it felt like before. If you fully understand where your food comes from, that is motivation enough. People are constantly asking me am I STILL vegan, as if it's a fad diet. But for me that's like asking are you tempted to murder an innocent being for the sake of your own taste buds, ummm no, I'm not actually! And if you're looking for any inspiration just watch something like earthlings.

And yes there are plenty of vegan treats! I could write a book of all the vegan treats that are available. But you might be surprised by how little you crave them once you're vegan. Homemade hot chocolate is one of my favourite treats, melt a few squares of dark chocolate and soya milk in a pan, take off before it bubbles and whisk it, result.... delicious frothy hot chocolate nicer than any hot chocolate you get from a coffee shop!