Change in sports person tax rules

Thud

This could change things...
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/sports-stars-to-benefit-from-tax-change-1.1572370

was one of the main reason a lot of players wouldn't move

.ak

That would be massive.

Buer

So long international players and thanks for all the fish.

dtpc191991

Thud wrote: »

This could change things...
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/sports-stars-to-benefit-from-tax-change-1.1572370

was one of the main reason a lot of players wouldn't move

I wonder how much PRL/LNR gave the Irish govt. XD

Seriously though, this is real threat to the provinces, thanks alot Dail.

Riskymove

dtpc191991 wrote: »

, thanks alot Dail.

its an EU rule change

.ak

Yeah it's an EU. Really the IRFU are gonna need to brain storm and think of a new carrot to keep the lads in the provinces.

dtpc191991

Riskymove wrote: »

its an EU rule change

Woops, I kind of only a breezed over the article to get the main gist of it. XD

Il read it more thoroughly when I have the time. Regardless we really are buggered now. =(

Podge_irl

I don't know if this is automatically a bad thing. An awful lot of senior Irish players who are past their best are essentially stuck here and it clogs up squads.

I'm sure Stringer is happy anyway, and his kind of situation is exactly the kind of one I would like to see replicated by more players.

awec

This doesn't really affect Ulster does it despite what the article says?

Anyway, they'll still have to play in Ireland to build up the cash. All this means is you won't see a final season cameo.

errlloyd

Yeah I don't think it really does much. I guess it means that once a player has been highly paid for 10 years in Ireland they have less incentive to stay here, but by that point they're on the way out anyway, and I'm not gonna spite a 32yr old for going on one last junket to France.

It still effectively means we can pay a player 40 percent less than foreign clubs would need to.

Thud

there will be an exodus to Japan and France after the world cup.

only upside is that it will give some younger players more opportunities at home especially as there will likely be only 3 (possibly 2 some years) of the provinces playing top level european rugby

Thud

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah I don't think it really does much. I guess it means that once a player has been highly paid for 10 years in Ireland they have less incentive to stay here, but by that point they're on the way out anyway, and I'm not gonna spite a 32yr old for going on one last junket to France.

It still effectively means we can pay a player 40 percent less than foreign clubs would need to.

the irish provinces were able to offer/pay lower wages because of this, it's why they thought they could lowball Sexton. Without this they won't be able to compete if any French side comes looking for a young player.

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm sure Stringer is happy anyway, and his kind of situation is exactly the kind of one I would like to see replicated by more players.

The thing is, it's as likely (and probably more so) to be looked at by guys who are around their peak. These are the guys who can make the really massive money and who don't have a wife and kids to think about when making the move.

I reckon the potential loss of a couple of top players like SOB, Murray, Kearney etc. would heavily outweigh the potential bonus of older guys like Mike Ross, DOC or Tom Court vacating spots for younger guys.

Thud

Thud wrote: »

there will be an exodus to Japan and France after the world cup.

only upside is that it will give some younger players more opportunities at home especially as there will likely be only 3 (possibly 2 some years) of the provinces playing top level european rugby

Can't go to the Japan and claim it, only EU countries.

Could see a fair few more Trevor Brennan and Damien Browne, Peter Stringers etc popping up in England and France though!

Will be interesting.

Buer

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah I don't think it really does much. I guess it means that once a player has been highly paid for 10 years in Ireland they have less incentive to stay here, but by that point they're on the way out anyway, and I'm not gonna spite a 32yr old for going on one last junket to France.

It still effectively means we can pay a player 40 percent less than foreign clubs would need to.

It doesn't and never did. Sorry, errlloyd, this is a bugbear of mine!

The player is entitled to 40% back of the tax he paid which equates for far, far less than 40% of the pay packet. So, for example, if BOD is paid €300k and pays 42% tax on that, he's entitled to 40% rebate on that tax which equates to €50k.

BOD is probably looking at a rebate of a bit over €500k for his career and he'd probably be the highest of anyone. For guys like Sexton, the difference between a couple of years in France and an Irish contract would easily outweigh his potential rebate.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

The thing is, it's as likely (and probably more so) to be looked at by guys who are around their peak. These are the guys who can make the really massive money and who don't have a wife and kids to think about when making the move.

I reckon the potential loss of a couple of top players like SOB, Murray, Kearney etc. would heavily outweigh the potential bonus of older guys like Mike Ross, DOC or Tom Court vacating spots for younger guys.

As it stands those players can go anyway though. They have both a reasonable expectation of being able to get another contract in Ireland and don't have (comparatively) that much to get back anyway.

the irish provinces were able to offer/pay lower wages because of this, it's why they thought they could lowball Sexton. Without this they won't be able to compete if any French side comes looking for a young player.

They thought they could lowball Sexton because they're stupid. He was entitled to naff all from his earlier deals as they were quite low. The tax rebate is still there anyway.

who_me

.ak wrote: »

Yeah it's an EU. Really the IRFU are gonna need to brain storm and think of a new carrot to keep the lads in the provinces.

And if they try to use the "stick" - only selecting Irish-based players - it means ruling Sexton out. It's a pickle.

bilston

Ulster have managed to do ok at holding onto their best players in recent years despite not benefitting from this. There was admittedly a period where we lost a number of players at once but only Tommy Bowe was a really big name and in the last few years we've been able to hold on to our players so hopefully it will be the same for Munster, Leinster and Connacht. Sure you'll lose the odd player but I don't know that it will lead to a flood of players leaving.

Between this, pushy agents and new lucrative TV deals on the horizon it seems like a pretty good time to be a young professional rugby player in Europe right now.

desertcircus

This could be a blessing in disguise for Irish rugby. Players aged 30 or more are the ones who'll be affected by this; we might finally see a regular phasing out of older players from the national side instead of playing them until they retire. Not to mention the fact that it should increase the number of Irishmen playing top-level club rugby, giving us more players to choose from. Instead of having the likes of Keatley wait until ROG couldn't keep going, we could see Jordi Murphy getting Heineken Cup rugby without having to wait, and improving with every game, while Jamie Heaslip becomes a jaunard.

Swiwi.

Kind of defeats the original purpose of the law. It's a no-brainer that France club rugby will benefit.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

This doesn't really affect Ulster does it despite what the article says?

Anyway, they'll still have to play in Ireland to build up the cash. All this means is you won't see a final season cameo.

What if they go in the height of their career and come back at the end?

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

What if they go in the height of their career and come back at the end?

What's stopping them doing that now?

Zzippy

Podge_irl wrote: »

What's stopping them doing that now?

Irish provinces not wanting them back just for a swansong?

From Twitter:

GinAndThornley ‏@NePasThornley 1h

Recent EU tax ruling fuels speculation of Heaslip move to Racing, and new opportunities for O'Callaghan #swansong in Luxembourg or Estonia

c.b.

Riskymove wrote: »

its an EU rule change

Yet another example of the bloody EU sticking their snouts in where its not warranted!

It certainly appears that this combined with the French sugar daddies inflating wages and the PRL/LNR assault on Celtic rugby via changes to European Rugby rules could be a perfect storm for provincial rugby in Ireland.

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

It doesn't and never did. Sorry, errlloyd, this is a bugbear of mine!

The player is entitled to 40% back of the tax he paid which equates for far, far less than 40% of the pay packet. So, for example, if BOD is paid €300k and pays 42% tax on that, he's entitled to 40% rebate on that tax which equates to €50k.

Put my hands up, I'd never actually looked at it before. Its still worth a fair crack though, like 40% of 42% is 17% or so isn't it, i Also French income tax is higher than Ireland right?