Court Summons for failure to produce License and Insurance

hammer73

Guys

I was stopped in July and asked to produce my license and insurance to my local Garda station within 10 days. I brought them in and thought that would be the end of it.

Roll on to this Wednesday and I get a court summons in the post saying that I never produced the documents. When i checked with the Guards they say that there is no record on the system of me showing my documents.

Has anyone heard of this before or hear of it happening to anyone. It cant be the first time a Guard has forgotten to input some information on the system.

Thanks

uck51js9zml2yt

Did he not make a note of it in his book when you produced.
Do you know the gardas name.

Carlos Orange

hammer73 wrote: »

Guys

I was stopped in July and asked to produce my license and insurance to my local Garda station within 10 days. I brought them in and thought that would be the end of it.

Roll on to this Wednesday and I get a court summons in the post saying that I never produced the documents. When i checked with the Guards they say that there is no record on the system of me showing my documents.

Has anyone heard of this before or hear of it happening to anyone. It cant be the first time a Guard has forgotten to input some information on the system.

Thanks

Apparently this happened to one of the directors of a company I worked for after I left. The summons went to an address he didn't live at any more and he found out when the cops turned up at his mums house (he wasn't there) looking to arrest him since a bench warrant had been issued. Cost him some serious money to get it sorted without any prison time.

hammer73

Jerome Deep Tenet wrote: »

Did he not make a note of it in his book when you produced.
Do you know the gardas name.

Dont know the guards name and cant remember what he did with the information. He either wrote it in his book or Photocopied the documents. He must have written down the reg of the car because he i remember giving that to him.

Toyotafanboi

psinno wrote: »

Apparently this happened to one of the directors of a company I worked for after I left. The summons went to an address he didn't live at any more and he found out when the cops turned up at his mums house (he wasn't there) looking to arrest him since a bench warrant had been issued. Cost him some serious money to get it sorted without any prison time.

ah stop, prison time for not producing your driving license on time. i doubt that.

bumper234

psinno wrote: »

Apparently this happened to one of the directors of a company I worked for after I left. The summons went to an address he didn't live at any more and he found out when the cops turned up at his mums house (he wasn't there) looking to arrest him since a bench warrant had been issued. Cost him some serious money to get it sorted without any prison time.

LOL you were doing SO well right up until the end :rolleyes:

hammer73

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

ah stop, prison time for not producing your driving license on time. i doubt that.

I should hope so. License and Insurance were in date so why wouldnt i produce them. I suppose it all depends on the humour of the judge on the day.

Pro Hoc Vice

hammer73 wrote: »

Guys

I was stopped in July and asked to produce my license and insurance to my local Garda station within 10 days. I brought them in and thought that would be the end of it.

Roll on to this Wednesday and I get a court summons in the post saying that I never produced the documents. When i checked with the Guards they say that there is no record on the system of me showing my documents.

Has anyone heard of this before or hear of it happening to anyone. It cant be the first time a Guard has forgotten to input some information on the system.

Thanks

Just to be clear how many summons did you get and what exactly are they for?

biko

hammer73 wrote: »

Has anyone heard of this before or hear of it happening to anyone. It cant be the first time a Guard has forgotten to input some information on the system.

It's not uncommon and we have had threads on it before.

hammer73

infosys wrote: »

Just to be clear how many summons did you get and what exactly are they for?

5 in all, i understand that this is common for someone who shows up as nothaving produced the documents

driving without driving licence
fail to produce driving licence within 10 days
failure to produce insurance certificate
fail to produce driving licence
no insurance

hammer73

biko wrote: »

It's not uncommon and we have had threads on it before.

can anyone remember how these cases usually end up?

dh0011

Go to court tell the judge what happened and bring all your paper work with you.

Pro Hoc Vice

hammer73 wrote: »

5 in all, i understand that this is common for someone who shows up as nothaving produced the documents

driving without driving licence
fail to produce driving licence within 10 days
failure to produce insurance certificate
fail to produce driving licence
no insurance

Number 1, show up on day with full licence show to Garda wait around till that charge struck out. Number 2 tell Garda you produced licence at x Garda station you may have to give evidence, number 3 same as 2 number 4 as you did not produce driving licence on demand you may have to take that on chin usually fine, number 5 bring original insurance certificate show to Garda same as 1.

hammer73

dh0011 wrote: »

Go to court tell the judge what happened and bring all your paper work with you.

Spoken to a solicitor and thats what they said. Go on my own as nothing to be gained by bring them along. Plead my case but its in the hands of the judge then, get them on a bad day and your goosed.

hammer73

infosys wrote: »

Number 1, show up on day with full licence show to Garda wait around till that charge struck out. Number 2 tell Garda you produced licence at x Garda station you may have to give evidence, number 3 same as 2 number 4 as you did not produce driving licence on demand you may have to take that on chin usually fine, number 5 bring original insurance certificate show to Garda same as 1.

Thanks

dh0011

If the judge does something stupid (which can happen in the district court), you can have a chat with the solicitor then about an appeal but in the meantime I wouldnt worry.

sebastianlieken

Are there no security cameras at the Garda station to show that you were there?

Valetta

<Snip>

hammer73

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Are there no security cameras at the Garda station to show that you were there?

I dont think so but ill check again later today. If there were i dont fancy my chances of getting them to go through the footage. The Guard i spoke to yesterday was very unhelpfull and more or less accused me of lying that i had shown my documents in the first place.

visual

Garda will likely appear and say struck out on all accounts.

This happened to me years ago.

Summons for
no insurance
Failing to produce insurance
No driving license
Failing to produce driving licence
I think I had 7 or 8 charges in total

I went to police station where I produced everything it was recorded but as I was summoned to court I had to appear.

In court there was a lady in front of me up for the same summons garda said strick out on all accounts. She was really annoyed and asked why she wad made appear. Judge was a rude git and replied your free to go if your not happy to go now I will do you for contempt of court.

My case was dealt with in the same manner.
Lost a 1/2 day work.

I would guess judge would strike it all out if garda doesn't do so first.

In the mean time explain to garda if you can what has happened. He may decide it was human error in police station and drop charges you will still have to go to court as once sommoned there is no option.

dh0011

you would not get a prison sentence for not showing up in court. You would be arrested on foot of the bench warrant and brought to the next sitting of the district court and then you go home.

Tzardine

I was asked to produce last year. I did it in Lucan station and the Garda who looked after me ( Was a sergeant ) gave me a two page print out that had all of the information on it. The stop details - time , location etc, the Garda name, and then all of my own details - License - Insurance etc.

I though that this was the norm when you produced ?

As others have already said, I would just turn up on the day with everything ready for the Judge and hopefully he will accept your explanation.

timmy4u2

The Garda was incorrect in asking you to produce the documents at your local Garda Station.

You should have been given the choice of any Garda station and then he should have asked you what Garda Station you undertook to produce them at.

That should then be written into his note book.
You obviously know the name of the Garda as his name appears on the summons form.

Write to the Superintendent at your local Garda District HQ, explain you mission-to meet with the Garda-and he will find out where that Garda is based.

If time permits write to the Garda through the Sergeant in Charge of his Station, but in any event make sure you meet him and that you show him the relevant documents and let him know when and where you produced the documents.

If he is satisfied he may tell you there is no need to attend court and he will have the summonses struck out.

Mistakes happen but you are compounding the situation by waiting until you are before the Justice.
If all fails and you are in Court and have to fight and your case is called wait for the Garda to
give his evidence. Listen intently to what he has to say and hope that he takes out his note book or gives evidence from notes that were taken at or soon after the event.
Ask him if he has finished all his evidence.
If he does not give evidence of asking for your certificate of insurance or exemption that is the no insurance/failing to produce gone out the door.
Ask him has he examined your documents and if he is satisfied that they are in order.
Ask him where he demanded you produce the documents and ask what note is in his note book regarding the demand. You can ask that the Justice see the note book; and they have asked. Ask what evidence he has in court to show that you did not produce the documents.
If none there is nothing to contradict your evidence.
All of above is only when diplomacy fails and is not legal advice, just my opinion on how you may proceed.

As regards another poster and the issue of a warrant for failure to appear.
District Justices rarely issue bench warrants, perhaps they may decide on a no insurance because of the severity of the penalty.
Most will proceed without your presence and convict you.
A warrant is then issued for the collection of the fine and depending on the nature of the warrant and it is not paid you may end up in prison for non payment or it could be a distress warrant where goods could be taken.
If the evidence is in your favour

Carlos Orange

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

ah stop, prison time for not producing your driving license on time. i doubt that.

Nobody has to believe me if they don't want to. It is second hand after all.

Pro Hoc Vice

timmy4u2 wrote: »

The Garda was incorrect in asking you to produce the documents at your local Garda Station.

You should have been given the choice of any Garda station and then he should have asked you what Garda Station you undertook to produce them at.

That should then be written into his note book.
You obviously know the name of the Garda as his name appears on the summons form.

Write to the Superintendent at your local Garda District HQ, explain you mission-to meet with the Garda-and he will find out where that Garda is based.

If time permits write to the Garda through the Sergeant in Charge of his Station, but in any event make sure you meet him and that you show him the relevant documents and let him know when and where you produced the documents.

If he is satisfied he may tell you there is no need to attend court and he will have the summonses struck out.

Mistakes happen but you are compounding the situation by waiting until you are before the Justice.
If all fails and you are in Court and have to fight and your case is called wait for the Garda to
give his evidence. Listen intently to what he has to say and hope that he takes out his note book or gives evidence from notes that were taken at or soon after the event.
Ask him if he has finished all his evidence.
If he does not give evidence of asking for your certificate of insurance or exemption that is the no insurance/failing to produce gone out the door.
Ask him has he examined your documents and if he is satisfied that they are in order.
Ask him where he demanded you produce the documents and ask what note is in his note book regarding the demand. You can ask that the Justice see the note book; and they have asked. Ask what evidence he has in court to show that you did not produce the documents.
If none there is nothing to contradict your evidence.
All of above is only when diplomacy fails and is not legal advice, just my opinion on how you may proceed.

As regards another poster and the issue of a warrant for failure to appear.
District Justices rarely issue bench warrants, perhaps they may decide on a no insurance because of the severity of the penalty.
Most will proceed without your presence and convict you.
A warrant is then issued for the collection of the fine and depending on the nature of the warrant and it is not paid you may end up in prison for non payment or it could be a distress warrant where goods could be taken.
If the evidence is in your favour

A fine can only result in time in lieu it can not result in a distress warrant. The only other thing I would say is always turn up even if AGS agree to strick out. It can be very easy for Grda to ask another to S/O the matter but it slips through. I have know more than one disqualification in such circumstances, it's not pretty trying to sort out.

DJ's do often issue bench warrants but I agree rarely in driving cases, it is mor normal to convict in absence.

hammer73

timmy4u2 wrote: »

The Garda was incorrect in asking you to produce the documents at your local Garda Station.

You should have been given the choice of any Garda station and then he should have asked you what Garda Station you undertook to produce them at.

That should then be written into his note book.
You obviously know the name of the Garda as his name appears on the summons form.

Write to the Superintendent at your local Garda District HQ, explain you mission-to meet with the Garda-and he will find out where that Garda is based.

If time permits write to the Garda through the Sergeant in Charge of his Station, but in any event make sure you meet him and that you show him the relevant documents and let him know when and where you produced the documents.

If he is satisfied he may tell you there is no need to attend court and he will have the summonses struck out.

Mistakes happen but you are compounding the situation by waiting until you are before the Justice.
If all fails and you are in Court and have to fight and your case is called wait for the Garda to
give his evidence. Listen intently to what he has to say and hope that he takes out his note book or gives evidence from notes that were taken at or soon after the event.
Ask him if he has finished all his evidence.
If he does not give evidence of asking for your certificate of insurance or exemption that is the no insurance/failing to produce gone out the door.
Ask him has he examined your documents and if he is satisfied that they are in order.
Ask him where he demanded you produce the documents and ask what note is in his note book regarding the demand. You can ask that the Justice see the note book; and they have asked. Ask what evidence he has in court to show that you did not produce the documents.
If none there is nothing to contradict your evidence.
All of above is only when diplomacy fails and is not legal advice, just my opinion on how you may proceed.

As regards another poster and the issue of a warrant for failure to appear.
District Justices rarely issue bench warrants, perhaps they may decide on a no insurance because of the severity of the penalty.
Most will proceed without your presence and convict you.
A warrant is then issued for the collection of the fine and depending on the nature of the warrant and it is not paid you may end up in prison for non payment or it could be a distress warrant where goods could be taken.
If the evidence is in your favour

The guard that stopped me did ask where i wanted to produce my documents and i nominated my local ststion. I went there within 10 days but it doesnt seem to be on the system hence i got the court summons on Wednesday.

I have left a message for the Guard that stopped me to call me and ill chat to him and see if there is something that can be done.

Thanks

timmy4u2

psinno wrote: »

Nobody has to believe me if they don't want to. It is second hand after all.

I believe you; you are correct but the warrant is for the fine and in default of paying the fine, which in effect is contempt of court, you can be taken to prison

power pants

Happened to me about 4 years ago, had to produce NCT, insurance, tax and driving licence even though I had everything on display bar my licence, was being renewed at the time

I handed in all docs within 10 days and still got a summons for failing to produce

went to court and was struck out within 5 seconds, waste of time for everyone involved

timmy4u2

hammer73 wrote: »

The guard that stopped me did ask where i wanted to produce my documents and i nominated my local ststion. I went there within 10 days but it doesnt seem to be on the system hence i got the court summons on Wednesday.

I have left a message for the Guard that stopped me to call me and ill chat to him and see if there is something that can be done.

Thanks

That is cleared up so. Initially you said he asked that you produce at your local garda station.
If you are going into court on this you need to be very accurate to preserve your credibility.
Have all attempts of contact in writing.
Did you call to the Garda at your local Garda Station to see if he can throw any light on the situation.
You cannot have too much evidence.

hammer73

timmy4u2 wrote: »

That is cleared up so. Initially you said he asked that you produce at your local garda station.
If you are going into court on this you need to be very accurate to preserve your credibility.
Have all attempts of contact in writing.
Did you call to the Garda at your local Garda Station to see if he can throw any light on the situation.
You cannot have too much evidence.

I went to my local garda station yesterday to see if they could help me and they were no addition at all. I was told to write a letter to the super and "hopefully" we will reply to me was as much help as i got.

unichall

@hammer73: because you are summoned to court you have to go unfortunately.

Bring with you your licence and insurance and find the garda before the court begins, show him everything is in date and correct. Once the case is called he will strike it all out. Enjoy the the rest of your day off.

This is probably the most common type of summons before the courts, there will literally be 20 other people in the court in the same boat, some like you will have produced but got lost somewhere along the line and others will have forgotten but once all your documents are ok in court on the day, no problems, all struck out.

Mr.Fred

I'm not surprised this happened to be honest.

I had to produce at my Garda station recently and it took them an age to come to the front desk and then with a face on her the the ban garda took my forms disappeared for a minute and then handed them back to me. No receipt or stamp or anything so I took her badge number and made note of the time.

Hopefully I don't end up with a summons in a couple of months.

timmy4u2

infosys wrote: »

A fine can only result in time in lieu it can not result in a distress warrant.

It is there indeed. Under District Court Rules
Schedule 25b to distrain in default
25.10 refers

Stheno

hammer73 wrote: »

I went to my local garda station yesterday to see if they could help me and they were no addition at all. I was told to write a letter to the super and "hopefully" we will reply to me was as much help as i got.

Best bet is to contact the guard who stopped you and if necessary meet him with the documents before court.

Pro Hoc Vice

timmy4u2 wrote: »

It is there indeed. Under District Court Rules
Schedule 25b to distrain in default
25.10 refers

I stand corrected, never seen it done only ever seen a days in lieu order.