BMW 4 Series

Shane732

Am I missing something? Why on earth is a 4 Series 320 M Sport €60K?

There's a 3 Series 328i that's €49k and a 5 series 535 that's €68k.

I'm lost.

MuppetCheck

Shane732 wrote: »

Am I missing something? Why on earth is a 4 Series 320 M Sport €60K?

There's a 3 Series 328i that's €49k and a 5 series 535 that's €68k.

I'm lost.

They are trying to differentiate it I suppose. I was playing around on the configurator recently and specced up a 330d M Sport saloon with an awful lot of extras and it wasnt more than that 320 price. Seems way too expensive for what it is.

bmwguy

Is it not called a 420 now?

carsfan

I think those 420's are brand new and are heavily specced with pro nav, electric seats etc. where as the other cars are used so that would account for some of it but it does seem like a lot of money all right for a 2 litre diesel.

robbie99

Model description|Manual RRP|Manual OTR|Manual VRT Band|Auto RRP|Auto OTR|Auto VRT Band|Power (hp)|0-100kmh (secs)|Combined (mpg)|CO2 emissions (g/km)
428i SE|€50,250|€51,100|C|€52,607|€53,457|C|245|5.9 (5.8)|42.8 (44.8)|154 (147)
428i Sport|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9 (5.8)|42.8 (44.8)|154 (147)
428i Modern|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9 (5.8)|42.8 (44.8)|154 (147)
428i Luxury|€54,210|€55,060|C|€56,567|€57,417|C|245|5.9 (5.8)|42.8 (44.8)|154 (147)
428i M Sport|€57,620|€58,470|D|€57,361|€58,211|C|245|5.9 (5.8)|42.2 (44.1)|156 (149)
435i Luxury|€68,430|€69,280|E|€68,458|€69,308|D|306|5.4 (5.1)|35.8 (39.2)|185 (169)
435i M Sport|€69,290|€70,140|E|€71,850|€72,700|E|306|5.4 (5.1)|34.9 (38.2)|189 (172)
420d SE|€46,280|€47,130|B1|€48,510|€49,360|B1|184|7.5 (7.3)|60.1 (61.4)|124 (121)
420d Sport|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5 (7.3)|60.1 (61.4)|124 (121)
420d Modern|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5 (7.3)|60.1 (61.4)|124 (121)
420d Luxury|€50,030|€50,880|B1|€52,260|€53,110|B1|184|7.5 (7.3)|60.1 (61.4)|124 (121)
420d M Sport|€50,780|€51,630|B1|€53,010|€53,860|B1|184|7.5 (7.3)|58.9 (60.1)|127 (124)

Shane732

robbie99 wrote: »

Model description|Manual RRP|Manual OTR|Manual VRT Band|Auto RRP|Auto OTR|Auto VRT Band|Power (hp)|0-100kmh (secs)|Combined (mpg)|CO2 emissions (g/km)
428i SE|€50,250|€51,100|C|€52,607|€53,457|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Sport|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Modern|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Luxury|€54,210|€55,060|C|€56,567|€57,417|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i M Sport|€57,620|€58,470|D|€57,361|€58,211|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.2|(44.1)|156|(149)
435i Luxury|€68,430|€69,280|E|€68,458|€69,308|D|306|5.4|(5.1)|35.8|(39.2)|185|(169)
435i M Sport|€69,290|€70,140|E|€71,850|€72,700|E|306|5.4|(5.1)|34.9|(38.2)|189|(172)
420d SE|€46,280|€47,130|B1|€48,510|€49,360|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Sport|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Modern|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Luxury|€50,030|€50,880|B1|€52,260|€53,110|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d M Sport|€50,780|€51,630|B1|€53,010|€53,860|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|58.9|(60.1)|127|(124)

Thanks, much appreciated.

I just don't understand the pricing. €50k for a stock 420 M sport is nuts. The 420's up at the moment aren't that heavily spec'd. The cars are missing a decent engine to start with!

There won't be too many of them on the road at that price.

The 328i up on carzone was listing at €58k when it went up originally. They just can't shift it.

HandsomeDan

Like anything new it has a high desirability factor and is priced accordingly.

ShadowHearth

Is it me or diesels got higher emisions then Petrols? And the emisionsare insanely low?

MetzgerMeister

True dat SH! According to that chart, the 420d emissions is 60.1 g/km and the 435i is 34.9 g/km.

Has the time come where petrols will be the ones bought instead of diesels and we will finally be able to look forward to enjoying nice cars in a few years time again????

listermint

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

True dat SH! According to that chart, the 420d emissions is 60.1 g/km and the 435i is 35.8 g/km.

Has the time come where petrols will be the ones bought instead of diesels and we will finally be able to look forward to enjoying nice cars in a few years time again????

No because everyone will be on electricity

MetzgerMeister

listermint wrote: »

No because everyone will be on electricity

Don't even joke about that

Matt Simis

robbie99 wrote: »

Model description|Manual RRP|Manual OTR|Manual VRT Band|Auto RRP|Auto OTR|Auto VRT Band|Power (hp)|0-100kmh (secs)|Combined (mpg)|CO2 emissions (g/km)
428i SE|€50,250|€51,100|C|€52,607|€53,457|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Sport|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Modern|€52,630|€53,480|C|€54,987|€55,837|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i Luxury|€54,210|€55,060|C|€56,567|€57,417|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.8|(44.8)|154|(147)
428i M Sport|€57,620|€58,470|D|€57,361|€58,211|C|245|5.9|(5.8)|42.2|(44.1)|156|(149)
435i Luxury|€68,430|€69,280|E|€68,458|€69,308|D|306|5.4|(5.1)|35.8|(39.2)|185|(169)
435i M Sport|€69,290|€70,140|E|€71,850|€72,700|E|306|5.4|(5.1)|34.9|(38.2)|189|(172)
420d SE|€46,280|€47,130|B1|€48,510|€49,360|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Sport|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Modern|€48,530|€49,380|B1|€50,760|€51,610|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d Luxury|€50,030|€50,880|B1|€52,260|€53,110|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|60.1|(61.4)|124|(121)
420d M Sport|€50,780|€51,630|B1|€53,010|€53,860|B1|184|7.5|(7.3)|58.9|(60.1)|127|(124)

Table is messed up (at least for me) as CO2 is missing and 0-100kph (whatever the brackets signify, auto or manual?) are showing under combined MPG and CO2 column is showing MPG.

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

True dat SH! According to that chart, the 420d emissions is 60.1 g/km and the 435i is 34.9 g/km.

Has the time come where petrols will be the ones bought instead of diesels and we will finally be able to look forward to enjoying nice cars in a few years time again????

See above, the table is missing a column... there isnt a hope either the 420d or the 435i hits either emission quoted or that the petrol is lower per g/KM (its lower per litre, which isnt counted by Irish taxation).

420d figures from BMW.com:

Urban in l/100 km 6.0 - 5.8 [5.6 - 5.4]
Extra-urban in l/100 km 4.1 [4.2 - 4.1]
Combined in l/100 km 4.8 - 4.7 [4.7 - 4.6]
CO2 emissions in g/km 127 - 124 [124 - 121]

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/4series/coupe/2013/showroom/technical_data/index.html

Them emissions are all wrong.

The 420d is 121g/km and the 435i is 185g/km for instance. The tax bands alone are showing that the emissions are wrong as the diesel is in a lower bracket than the petrol (as it should be) but if the emissions were correct then it would be the other way around.

I think that's the mpg showing in the co2 bracket.

robbie99

This one for €60k, http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/4-Series/420d-M-S/37113818270395090/advert?channel=CARS

if you wanted to buy it new for January...

420d M Sport OTR Auto|€53,860
Estoril Blue|€967
19" Wheels|€1,005
Professional Media Package|€1,500
Sports Auto|€201
Reversing camera|€495
Walnut trim| ??
Electric Front Sports Seats + Driver Memory|€1,417
Extended Storage|€232
Split Folding Rear Seats|€255

€58,591

These cars are only in a few weeks and AFAIK, dealer's aren't allowed to sell on any demo models within 3 months. Besides, if anyone's desperate enough to want one right now why let them go for anything less than a premium?

robbie99

Missed that, the table's fixed up now!

MetzgerMeister

Still not bad, still only €750 a year to tax a fooken 435i :mad:

Idbatterim

just checked bmw.co.uk and price for a 4 series there starts from £29,200 = E34,206

http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=29200&From=GBP&To=EUR

Im the biggest bm fanboi there is and the 4 series is specced higher as standard than the 3 series, but 50k for a 4 pot SE LOL! LOL!

Idbatterim

Still not bad, still only €750 a year to tax a fooken 435i

Im not sure about the 335 or 535 in 2008, what tax they are on, but the 330 and 530 are at E750... Yeah you can get "cheap tax" on a new 435, sure the depreciation will only be god knows what a year, what a steal :rolleyes:

MetzgerMeister

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im not sure about the 335 or 535 in 2008, what tax they are on, but the 330 and 530 are at E750... Yeah you can get "cheap tax" on a new 435, sure the depreciation will only be god knows what a year, what a steal :rolleyes:

I'm just saying that compared to my tax bill of 1494 every year for the same engine, it's ridiculous. It's half the cost on the new system.

Wossack

yea columns are a bit off methinks -

'Combined mpg' is prob '0-100kmph secs (auto)'
'C02 emissions..' should be 'Combined mpg'
and then just missing the actual CO2 emissions column, and figures

Idbatterim

I'm just saying that compared to my tax bill of 1494 every year for the same engine, it's ridiculous. It's half the cost on the new system.

yeah but if you can afford the E1500, I'm sure you can afford an 08 to take advantage of the 3Litres being on E750... All I am saying is, we know the rates, the new ones have been around for nigh on 6 years now...

Also bear in mind, that BMW are ridiculously good at getting a lot of bhp for very few gm per kg, particularly early 0n in the emissions game, the con with this is that unless you are into bm like you and I obviously are, you are paying for the "cheap tax" with highish purchase cost, depreciation, upkeep etc...

carsfan

60k for a 420d seems a lot but I imagine they will still sell in January no problem.
A lot of people that buy this sort of car, buy on the basis of what it costs per month on some sort of BMW finance package, so list is irrelevant as long as they can pay the monthlies.
BMW will arrange a seemingly attractive monthly price with a large balloon to actually own the car which will never happen as they will hope to move you on to the next one before then.

Idbatterim

the below puts things into perspective, you can buy a **** new 428 SE for 52,000 and look at the below, and the 428 is **** in comparison to the below, I dont care about the age, we are merely comparing cars...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-645-ci-2004/5874238

so your saving what E1500 a year on tax. How much is the depreciation and loan interest (if applicable costing) and if you actually have 52k or more in cash to purchase these cars outright, why the hell would you be looking at a 428 etc...

robbie99

Idbatterim wrote: »

the below puts things into perspective, you can buy a **** new 428 SE for 52,000 and look at the below, and the 428 is **** in comparison to the below, I dont care about the age, we are merely comparing cars...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-645-ci-2004/5874238

so your saving what E1500 a year on tax. How much is the depreciation and loan interest (if applicable costing) and if you actually have 52k or more in cash to purchase these cars outright, why the hell would you be looking at a 428 etc...

But you're not comparing the car. You're comparing the engine. Would you say a 435i is **** in comparison?

L-M

Never mind the 4 series, the hell is this?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/318-D-LU/37113801949507890/advert?channel=CARS

A 3 series GT? Since when did these exist?

cabb8ge

Limerick man wrote: »

......
A 3 series GT? Since when did these exist?

First I hear of them was last Sunday, in motors section of Sunday World I think.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

the below puts things into perspective, you can buy a **** new 428 SE for 52,000 and look at the below, and the 428 is **** in comparison to the below, I dont care about the age, we are merely comparing cars...

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-645-ci-2004/5874238

so your saving what E1500 a year on tax. How much is the depreciation and loan interest (if applicable costing) and if you actually have 52k or more in cash to purchase these cars outright, why the hell would you be looking at a 428 etc...

But there are a lot of people who want a new car, have the money and have no interest in the power or running costs of a bigger engine. They want to drive a very nice, comfortable, well equipped and prestigious car but have no need for anything other than the 420d for instance.

Idbatterim

But there are a lot of people who want a new car, have the money and have no interest in the power or running costs of a bigger engine. They want to drive a very nice, comfortable, well equipped and prestigious car but have no need for anything other than the 420d for instance.

Yeah I appreciate this, but when I hear about these cars and their "cheap running costs" its like a red flag to a bull at this stage, the running costs if you are talking tax and fuel are cheap yes, the serious costs like depreciation and interest (if applicable) are not. They are vastly more expensive to own for the first few years than say a 2005, 645 or 745... Yet the ones driving these actual flagship cruisers, with their outrageous motor tax :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:: are the lunatics...

Likewise the poster complaining about the emissions based 335 motor tax rate, comparing the CC to emissions based. I drive a 325ci, believe me I can sure as hell afford a "cheap tax" car, even a bmw if I want one, here comes to problem though, it wont be the one I want, i.e a decent 6 pot, m sport, good spec etc, I think people want to have their cake and eat it...

prestigious car

In relation to this, the 645 is a far more prestigious car in my opinion, I would look at them and go WOW, that is some machine and know the driver is obviously into the car etc... I would look at the 428 for example and appreciate it as in its design and more toys gadget than possibly a 645 etc, but in terms of prestige there is no comparison in my opinion... And I dont have some vendetta against the new 4 series, to back this up, here is what I posted a few weeks ago on bmwdrivernet...

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10727&page=1238 (my username on it is beaumont by the way)

Zubeneschamali

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think people want to have their cake and eat it...

You are happy with an older car and bigger engine. Some people will pay top dollar for a brand new coupé with a 4-pot 2.0 diesel. Some will want a new 650.

They just want a different kind of cake from you.

Idbatterim

You are happy with an older car and bigger engine. Some people will pay top dollar for a brand new coupé with a 4-pot 2.0 diesel. Some will want a new 650.

They just want a different kind of cake from you.

What I am saying is, people on the old CC rates paying E1809 in motor tax, can definitely afford an emissions based car, we here all the bitching about motor tax, but they obviously put the car / drive before this, which is fine, just dont bitch about it. We all knew / know the bloody ridiculous rates here based on CC on larger engined cars, they werent just foisted on us overnight, yes they have risen in recent years, but the rates were ridiculous then and they ridiculous now (just even more so)...

Also motor tax is the reason these 7,8,9 year old beauties have to get virtually given away, so it is a two way street...

They just want a different kind of cake from you.

No, I have my nice car, but have high motor tax. I'm not having my cake and eating it. If you want the nice car & lower tax, go out buy it and pay it in way higher purchase price, and lose out that way, there is no win / win...

Actually there is a win / win, have enough money that it doesnt make a difference to you...

MetzgerMeister

So, if the 4 series is the coupe version of the 3 series then the 2 SERIES must be the coupe version of the 1 series.

Pique

Limerick man wrote: »

Never mind the 4 series, the hell is this?

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/3-Series/318-D-LU/37113801949507890/advert?channel=CARS

A 3 series GT? Since when did these exist?

A 1.9 Diesel 'GT' car ?

Aston Martin must be kicking themselves that they didn't think of that first

bazz26

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

So, if the 4 series is the coupe version of the 3 series then the 2 SERIES must be the coupe version of the 1 series.

Yep, 2 Series replaces the old 1 Series Coupe/cabrio which was based on the first generation 1 Series. The 2 Series is based on the current 1 Series.

To add more confusion there is a new 4 Series Gran Coupe being launched also which will have 4 doors. Similar idea to the 6 Series Gran Coupe.

MetzgerMeister

They're going a bit mad with all these "new" models in their line up.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah I appreciate this, but when I hear about these cars and their "cheap running costs" its like a red flag to a bull at this stage, the running costs if you are talking tax and fuel are cheap yes, the serious costs like depreciation and interest (if applicable) are not. They are vastly more expensive to own for the first few years than say a 2005, 645 or 745... Yet the ones driving these actual flagship cruisers, with their outrageous motor tax :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:: are the lunatics...

Likewise the poster complaining about the emissions based 335 motor tax rate, comparing the CC to emissions based. I drive a 325ci, believe me I can sure as hell afford a "cheap tax" car, even a bmw if I want one, here comes to problem though, it wont be the one I want, i.e a decent 6 pot, m sport, good spec etc, I think people want to have their cake and eat it...



http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10727&page=1238 (my username on it is beaumont by the way)

Well they would obviously rather pay more in depreciation etc and have a newer car than pay it in running costs.

In any case you are not comparing like with like. The person who buys a new 420d is not the person who buys a 2004 645ci so there is no point in trying to compare.

Also when I said prestigious I wasn't comparing a 420d to a new 645i, I said they wanted a new prestigious car, i.e. they don't want a new kia or a new ford they want something a bit special and to be honest when new the 645i was obviously a much higher class of car that a 420d but a new 420d would turn my head a lot more than a 2004 645i would now (nearly 10 years old now).

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Alanna Beautiful Slothfulness wrote: »

Well they would obviously rather pay more in depreciation etc and have a newer car than pay it in running costs.

In any case you are not comparing like with like. The person who buys a new 420d is not the person who buys a 2004 645ci so there is no point in trying to compare.

Also when I said prestigious I wasn't comparing a 420d to a new 645i, I said they wanted a new prestigious car, i.e. they don't want a new kia or a new ford they want something a bit special and to be honest when new the 645i was obviously a much higher class of car that a 420d but a new 420d would turn my head a lot more than a 2004 645i would now (nearly 10 years old now).

To be fair, the only thing special about a 420d is the drivetrain being RWD and the badge saying BMW.

Idbatterim

Also when I said prestigious I wasn't comparing a 420d to a new 645i, I said they wanted a new prestigious car, i.e. they don't want a new kia or a new ford they want something a bit special and to be honest when new the 645i was obviously a much higher class of car that a 420d but a new 420d would turn my head a lot more than a 2004 645i would now (nearly 10 years old now).

I agree with you about the relativity in prestige, i.e. it certainly is compared to your run of the mill makes. I agree also on the 4 v the 6, they would turn my head for different reasons, BUT the 6 is a different class of car in my opinion, age of car aside...