Hi New member, few questions around heating etc.

poldenais

HI All,
In the middle of building (using a contractor), at the roof stage hopefully now within the next week.

I have a few decisions to make all of course which are dictated by my budget which seems to be going over already:

I was going an oil burner as the main source of heat, along with a stove inside with a back boiler. Add to that a air Heat pumps that heats water independently instead of solar panels . Yes I know in this day n age, there is so many better combinations but it's the cheapest option for us at present unless someone has a better idea.

I have played with the idea of maybe replacing the oil burner with a wood pellet burner to be located in my shed and if i could upgrading the radiators to aluminium radiators which Im told are decent but Im not really being blown over with what Im hearing about wood pellet stoves.

Anyone any ideas that you think I could do that would roughly be about the same price as the combination I mentioned above?
The house floor space is roughly about 200 SQM,

thanks in advance,
Paul

BryanF

what is your expect kwh/m2 heat & hw load ?
have you reviewed your options using the DEAP software (BER)?
have you sough independent advice or are you dealing with product suppliers?
what i your architect suggesting you do or has s/he recommended a third party professional ?

poldenais

BryanF wrote: »

what is your expect kwh/m2 heat & hw load ?
have you reviewed your options using the DEAP software (BER)?
have you sough independent advice or are you dealing with product suppliers?
what i your architect suggesting you do or has s/he recommended a third party professional ?

I had a QS working with my architect doing up the BER according to the house spec.

I'm just looking so far so havent dealt directly with any companies.

Architect knows Im on a budget so its hard for him to suggest anything other than what I listed above.

I know nothing about the kwh/m/hw questions

Mahogany Gaspipe

BryanF wrote: »

what is your expect kwh/m2 heat & hw load ?
have you reviewed your options using the DEAP software (BER)?
have you sough independent advice or are you dealing with product suppliers?
what i your architect suggesting you do or has s/he recommended a third party professional ?

For christ sake sometimes people would just appreciate some anecdotal advice; and not the third degree every time a question on heating systems or insulation is asked.
We all understanding the power of mathematics, formulas and God help us that we'd forget the great work of construction professionals.

OP I've elected to go for an air to water heating system, underfloor heating, air recovery and couple of solar panels. I've a only a 120mm wall cavity and will be using 62.5mm insulated slab.

I started building my house in 2007 hence the somewhat mishmash of systems.

BryanF

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

For christ sake sometimes people would just appreciate some anecdotal advice; and not the third degree every time a question on heating systems or insulation is asked.
We all understanding the power of mathematics, formulas and God help us that we'd forget the great work of construction professionals.

OP I've elected to go for an air to water heating system, underfloor heating, air recovery and couple of solar panels. I've a only a 120mm wall cavity and will be using 62.5mm insulated slab.

I started building my house in 2007 hence the somewhat mishmash of systems.

this is a new build, 'the power of mathematics, formulas' is available to the OP from his/her architect/BER assessor.

you built pre 2011 & 08 part L regs - the OP is building to min 40% if not 60% improvement for renewables over your build. The info requested is relevant to determine where the client is at in the process and what has been considered.

If the OP has built to a high level of air-tightness and building fabric the heating requirement should be low enough to remove the oil boiler (the HW could be managed also) by just running the heat pump, with peace of mind that the stove will manage on its own, if there is a problem with the heat pump.

Or we could go into his reasons for distrusting pellet boilers, but we'd like to know who he has been talking to first, I wonder was it 'anecdotal advice' that crossed this of the OP's list?


my preference would be for log gasification boiler with stove back-up. but there's a bit of work to logs that may not suit everyone & they can be a pricey initial investment and storage space is required.


There is no need for religious connotations, lets leave that kind of chat to a different forum thanks

poldenais

Hi,
Dont want to cause a row here so appreciate all feedback.

I'll try to give some information, house will have a 6" cavity pumped with Insulation...With double glazed windows. We were aiming for a B1/B2 rating probably with drylining included.

As for distrusting pellet boilers, its really from reading feedback on the web and that energy renewables companies dont seem to push it to me instead going for the air heat pump. I'm in donegal so that does need to be taken into account on what I do go with.

Thanks,

bombadil

I would go with boiler stove as main source of heating with condensing oil boiler as back up for hot water etc. Renewables needed for planning so perhaps a couple if solar panels on the roof. Problems with pellet boilers usually clogged supply due to damp pellets... they really need to be stored in an air tight silo... regarding which stove for a house that size go as big as you can... having used stove for a year in the house big fire equals cosy house... 2 scuttles of coal should have the house cosy for the night... dont heed all the guff about kw to the room etc... heat is more to do with fuel and how you control air supply

fclauson

poldenais wrote: »

...
I'll try to give some information, house will have a 6" cavity pumped with Insulation...With double glazed windows. We were aiming for a B1/B2 rating probably with drylining included.
..

Can I suggest you review this - an 8inch/200mm cavity with no internal insulation will actually work much better and probably be cheaper or as cheap

Thermal mass is very important and covering it up with insulation is a bad thing from a performance perspective

for example - here we are in early nov and due to thermal mass my build has not dropped below 21ish degrees with no heating since may

poldenais

Thanks Everyone for the replies and the information and views.

@fclauson: We already have a 6" cavity built at this stage. Do you think I would need internal insulation with that going by your views below?

fclauson

poldenais wrote: »

Thanks Everyone for the replies and the information and views.

@fclauson: We already have a 6" cavity built at this stage. Do you think I would need internal insulation with that going by your views below?

You will have to do the maths - taking the same Passive Certified house from Valencia Island to BIRR changes the insulation requirements (and will make it not passive !!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77293053&postcount=5

But I would never split insulation up if I could help it

poldenais

Thanks, I was told With the 150mm pumped cavity, the U value on the walls will be 0.177, in the original spec the U value would have been about 0.18 (with 80mm cavity insulation and insulated plasterboard internally) so I will stick with the 150mm pumped cavity now (without drylining) as thats what the budget dictates .

BryanF

poldenais wrote: »

Thanks, I was told With the 150mm pumped cavity, the U value on the walls will be 0.177

would you mind checking your figures thanks i make the 150 bonded bead at circa .21 and thats with no wall ties or maybe the walls are quinlites?

poldenais

I see Quinnlite blocks shown at the junction of walls and floor insulation anyway.

froshtyv

poldenais wrote: »

HI All,
In the middle of building (using a contractor), at the roof stage hopefully now within the next week.

I have a few decisions to make all of course which are dictated by my budget which seems to be going over already:

I was going an oil burner as the main source of heat, along with a stove inside with a back boiler. Add to that a air Heat pumps that heats water independently instead of solar panels . Yes I know in this day n age, there is so many better combinations but it's the cheapest option for us at present unless someone has a better idea.

I have played with the idea of maybe replacing the oil burner with a wood pellet burner to be located in my shed and if i could upgrading the radiators to aluminium radiators which Im told are decent but Im not really being blown over with what Im hearing about wood pellet stoves.

Anyone any ideas that you think I could do that would roughly be about the same price as the combination I mentioned above?
The house floor space is roughly about 200 SQM,

thanks in advance,
Paul

Are you building to the 2011 Part L requirements?

What type of heating are you going for in the house? UFH or Rads?

poldenais

froshtyv wrote: »

Are you building to the 2011 Part L requirements?

What type of heating are you going for in the house? UFH or Rads?

At this stage, Radiators. We just cant afford UFH with the budget we have now.

froshtyv

poldenais wrote: »

At this stage, Radiators. We just cant afford UFH with the budget we have now.

I was just wondering that.

If you are using UFH on the ground and first floors with a heat pump it goes along way to helping you meet your CPC and EPC requirements.

By using rads in any of the build it reduces you overall energy figure of your build.

What you can find by the time you price a boiler, solar tank and solar panels you wouldnt be far off the price of a heat pump, add the cost of filling your oil tank also.

fclauson

froshtyv wrote: »

I was just wondering that.

If you are using UFH on the ground and first floors with a heat pump it goes along way to helping you meet your CPC and EPC requirements.

By using rads in any of the build it reduces you overall energy figure of your build.

What you can find by the time you price a boiler, solar tank and solar panels you wouldnt be far off the price of a heat pump, add the cost of filling your oil tank also.

Agreed - in a well insulated house I dropped my mech/eng bill considerably by buying a smaller - correctly sized HP over solar/thermal + tank + boiler + oil

I still could not hit my Part L without PV though

froshtyv

fclauson wrote: »

Agreed - in a well insulated house I dropped my mech/eng bill considerably by buying a smaller - correctly sized HP over solar/thermal + tank + boiler + oil

I still could not hit my Part L without PV though

The new part L regs are very difficult to meet without the use of PV or solar even with a heat pump.

Of coarse it depends on a number of factors;

House size,

SPF of heat pump,

Type of heating system in the house UFH or Rads.

fclauson

froshtyv wrote: »

The new part L regs are very difficult to meet without the use of PV or solar even with a heat pump.

Of coarse it depends on a number of factors;

House size,

SPF of heat pump,

Type of heating system in the house UFH or Rads.

I do not believe you can achieve part l with HP alone

froshtyv

fclauson wrote: »

I do not believe you can achieve part l with HP alone

You can depending on the size of the house, heat pump and heating system used.

poldenais

froshtyv wrote: »

You can depending on the size of the house, heat pump and heating system used.

I have contacted a heating solutions company here just to suss out a few ideas and price a few options so will see what they come back with.

fclauson

poldenais wrote: »

I have contacted a heating solutions company here just to suss out a few ideas and price a few options so will see what they come back with.

examine there results carefully -I was told "a HP will cover your Part L"

well it did not - see articles I have written on the subject

blast06

fclauson wrote: »

examine there results carefully -I was told "a HP will cover your Part L"

well it did not - see articles I have written on the subject

It did for me ...... links to articles ?!

BryanF

fclauson wrote: »

examine there results carefully -I was told "a HP will cover your Part L"

well it did not - see articles I have written on the subject

FC is this not the 'old chestnut' re your lower than B'regs envelope to meet PH standard and greater % renewables reqiurements as a result?

fclauson

BryanF wrote: »

FC is this not the 'old chestnut' re your lower than B'regs envelope to meet PH standard and greater % renewables reqiurements as a result?

Absolutely - blast6 trawl for my old posts on this topic

poldenais

Im actually looking at another option at present which is a 23KW wood pellet stove that would sit in my living /Kitchen area as the main source of heating. Get rid of Oil burner/Oil tank etc etc.

Anyone any thoughts on that?

Would i still need a Oil burner as backup?

Also my original idea was to have a freestanding Multi-fuel Stove sit in an open living area where the flue pipe would go straight through the sloped roof I have. Does a pellet burner still use a standard Flue Pipe.

thanks,