The truth please

Hotman

Hey there, im becoming very skeptical here when it comes to picking a guitar. I used to work in a huge guitar shop in london, and i've had the pleasure of playing and testing alot of vintage and new gitars together, and tried to tell the difference

- we had 13 different les paul's all standard les pauls (standard written on the trus covers). mostly different years ranging from 79 to 2011 at the time. I sat for hours, plugging 3 guitars in at a time, and just strumming them gently 1 at a time 1 after the other and listening to the tone and resonance.
10 of the guitars were identical. literally identical. 2 of the others were slightly bassier but sound the same as eachother. and the newest guitar was a thinner sound than all of them. there was 10's of thousands of pounds worth of guitars there and they literally all sounded identical for the most part.

- now of course i have a decent enough ear for a guitar. you can easily tell the difference between gibson's and fenders etc. you can always identify a strat, tele, les paul, explorer etc. but im convinced now there's almost (if any at all) NO difference between the same models with the same pickups and materials.

- i played 7 fender strats. 3 of them were identical. 1994 never sold so basically new fender strats. 2 of them had maple necks, 1 had rosewood, identical hardware, even the colours were all sunburst.
Now i spent 25 mins strummung loud, soft on all 3, and there wasn't even the tinest.. i repeat not even the TINEST bit of difference between all 3. so totally trashing for me the idea of "ooh the rosewood gives a much warmer tone). to me now it makes no differece.

- i then tried a couple of other strats. a brand new 2011 standard USA strat, with alder body and maple neck like the 1994s. and again almost identical sound to the other 3. you wouldn't be able to tell the difference honestly.

- lastly i tried a couple of other strats with different pickups. a strat pro and a strat with noise cancelling pickups. (2 actually from different years). Now they all sounded a bit different to the standard strats, but again, sounded identical to eachother provided they had the same pickups. The wood in the body/neck made 0 difference that i could tell.

my question is, do you guys think that the name on the headstock and the date it was made creates imaginary sounds in people's minds to enable them to come up with sentences like "you can just hear the amazing quality that only a strat from that era has, that high end twang, the new ones don't have that sound"

i must admit i did something a bit wanky, this german knowit all guy came into the shop one day looking for a classic strat (he had plenty of cash). and he said i don't want a new strat as "the older pre 85 strats just had a warmer more precise quality to the sound, completely unique). OK?
so i tested him, i took out my own strat which was a 2003 usa standard that i'd played very rarely, and bought from new, didn't play it because i was playing my tele when gigging and to be honet i just thought the strat was just meh.. not a thick enough sound.

Anyway. i gave him my 2003 strat, hardly used, never fully tested live. and he was picking away at it, doing the old blues things, moving his head closer to the strings to let them ring out, and he said "you see? can you hear that, it's just incredible.. you don't get a quality mesmorizing sound like that on newer guitars, you can tell these were made back then by the true masters who understood what guitars were about, not the new generation guys).

now i know it's cruel, i told him it was a 2003 and he said "well you must have gigged it like hell to get that classic sound from it, the pickups obviously have been run through the mill for a long time". told him again that i've never gigged it, and only spent a pit of time picking at it unamplified at home writing songs.

any opinions on this? i'd really appreciate your feedback. thank you

Basically, different models sound different to eachother. guitars of the same model with different bodys and pickups (and or) sound a bit different from eachother. Guitars of the same model of different years with the same hardware (even vintage) all sound the same, of course providing it's the same pickups and same build process. and the neck of a guitar doesn't change the tone a jot

topcatcbr

I haven't the same level of experience as you but I have to agree.

I can't tell the difference in sound either on electric. However I find the newer models have thinner necks in many cases which make them easier for me to play.

Unless your after bragging rights I'd take new over old any day.

My opinion on this does change when it comes to acoustic guitars. In general a quality guitar will improve with age as the wood becomes tighter and resonates sound differently.

seachto7

I would nearly base an electric guitar on it's feel rather than how new or old it is.

If it feels good in the hands, everything else can be modded!

Acoustics I think are a different story.

martinedwards

90% of the sound is in the player's fingers.

Eric Clapton playing a strat, a Les Paul or an acoustic still sound like Clapton.

the idea that a rosewood fretboard will sound different to maple is, I agree, questionable,

the one that takes me to the fair is that a poly finish sounds different on an electric to an acrylic.

lunacy!!

a50 year old electric guitar WILL sound different to a new one because the magnets in the pups will have lost some of their magnetism.

other than that, it's all snake oil.

IMHO of course!!

_ciaran_

For a long time I thought I could differentiate between how fret boards sound. Always though maple was more mellow than rosewood.

I later learned that that was purely through the artists that I associated with those kinds of guitars. Now having played both types of neck many times I am certain that the only difference is the feel.

Definitely agree with seachto7, it's how a guitar feels that makes the difference.
I generally prefer the way older guitars feel. I prefer a neck to feel like an old piece of wood. Like a hurley or something, no like a lacquered piece of plastic. I wouldn't pay thousands for the privilege though.

Same goes for the nitro laquer argument. I don't believe there is a difference in tone but a poly finish feels like plastic to me.

wild turkey

I think the same goes for vintage capacitors & valves
Ive done a fair bit of experimenting with these over the years, a sprague orange drop sounds the same as a bumblebee to my ears
and I remember swopping valves like crazy in a Wem clubman that originally came with vintage Mullards
asking myself is there really a difference or is it in my head

I think you will find the odd electric that willl shine above the others but thats about it

A guitarist & his money are easily parted !

Seziertisch

I went in to Walton's a few years ago and tried out a bunch of Les Paul Standards. There were a couple which more or less the same and then there was one which I thought was maybe not as nice and another which I much preferred. It seemed to sound a bit airier, but it could well have had weight relief holes in it as it weighed a bit less than the others. And my preferring it would make sense as I tend to prefer hollowbody/semi-hollowbody instruments anyway.

And there was another time when a friend of mine was looking to buy a US Standard Telecaster, we tried out any and all that the usual suspects had on offer that day and they were all very similar except that we much preferred the ash body guitars we tried compared to the alder ones.

As Martin said above, it's mostly in the player's fingers, and once you get gear at a certain level it ceases to really make a difference. I have a friend who has a serious collection of vintage instruments and who also owns a studio. He keeps a nice selection of mostly older guitars in the studio, but nothing that would be described as unobtainable/unaffordable. I asked him why he didn't have any of the really nice stuff in there and he said the only time you might be able hear a difference when using an incredible vintage instrument vs. a really good newish/oldish instrument is if you were recording an instrumental album with a really incredible player. Which isn't to say that someone of lesser abilities might not enjoy playing an amazing vintage instrument which felt just perfect to play more than an instrument that was just really good to play.

And nowadays there are so many great playing, affordable new instruments out there, the Squire Classic Vibe series comes to mind, which at most maybe need a change of pickups to get them to a level where the quality of the instrument ceases to be an issue and the quality of the player is the only concern, that even a modest budget can get you more a guitar which should be more than enough guitar for most people's needs.