Rent allowance not accepted

Fe1exams

Are landlords allowed to by law discriminate by stating no rent allowance accepted.

Santa Cruz

Letting is like any other business. A landlord has the right to say who he will or will not do business with. Refusal to accept tenants on rent allowance is not a ground for discrimination such as race, creed, sexual orientation etc. It is simply a commercial decision in a market where accommodation is in short supply and non rent allowance tenants are available.

steirishrover

I myself am also sick of seeing "no rent allowance accepted"...

It is discriminatory, they can't tarnish all with the same brush. I have heard some stories of people on rent allowance leaving the place in a mess when their lease is up but their not all like that.

Months I've been looking for a place but not only do we have to put up with rising rents now it's this no rent allowance accepted crap. Something surely has to prevail it is a joke

Pro Hoc Vice

Fe1exams wrote: »

Are landlords allowed to by law discriminate by stating no rent allowance accepted.

Any person or business can discriminate as much as they like, as long as the reason for the discrimination is not one of those set out in the various Equality legislation. For example, the sex ground, the traveler ground, the sexual orientation ground etc..

So a landlord can say I don't want to rent to you because you are on social welfare, or you work in a particular company, or you are a member of a certain golf club. But he can not say I won't rent to you because you are African, or Catholic or gay etc.

Santa Cruz

steirishrover wrote: »

I myself am also sick of seeing "no rent allowance accepted"...

It is discriminatory, they can't tarnish all with the same brush. I have heard some stories of people on rent allowance leaving the place in a mess when their lease is up but their not all like that.

Months I've been looking for a place but not only do we have to put up with rising rents now it's this no rent allowance accepted crap. Something surely has to prevail it is a joke

Landlords are playing the percentage game. Who is the best option for paying the rent? A professional on good money with references etc. or a person dependant on welfare living from week to week on low welfare payments.

odds_on

steirishrover wrote: »

I myself am also sick of seeing "no rent allowance accepted"...

It is discriminatory, they can't tarnish all with the same brush. I have heard some stories of people on rent allowance leaving the place in a mess when their lease is up but their not all like that.

Months I've been looking for a place but not only do we have to put up with rising rents now it's this no rent allowance accepted crap. Something surely has to prevail it is a joke

While the theory of rent allowance is that the landlord will get paid the rent, in practice, some tenants hold onto the rent and sometimes tell the landlord that the rent hasn't come through.

So very often, people on rent allowance have to skimp and save - turn down the heating because it costs too much - as a result, mould can form and the landlord then gets blamed and has the expense of rectifying the issue.

Landlords don't want to take the chance that their property will be damaged or that the rent won't get paid. It is an unfortunate situation but a few on RA have done the damage which would take many years to undo.

Read the latest RA problem here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057067052

blastit

odds_on wrote: »

While the theory of rent allowance is that the landlord will get paid the rent, in practice, some tenants hold onto the rent and sometimes tell the landlord that the rent hasn't come through.

So very often, people on rent allowance have to skimp and save - turn down the heating because it costs too much - as a result, mould can form and the landlord then gets blamed and has the expense of rectifying the issue.

Landlords don't want to take the chance that their property will be damaged or that the rent won't get paid. It is an unfortunate situation but a few on RA have done the damage which would take many years to undo.

Read the latest RA problem here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057067052

And don't forget the landlords who do not register with the relevant authority--"oh we don't bother with that" - and take money for a place you would not put a dog

odds_on

blastit wrote: »

And don't forget the landlords who do not register with the relevant authority--"oh we don't bother with that" - and take money for a place you would not put a dog

But that is, in fact, to the benefit of the tenant as the landlord cannot make a claim against the tenant. And if it is a place you would not put a dog in, why would you rent it in the first place?

hfallada

In Dublin rent allowance is way below the market rent for most places. Why would a LL rent an apartment to some getting rent allowance which is like €750 when they can get €1,000 on the free market. Renting properties is a business and you rent your house to the person who will pay the most.

Plus a professional generally only sleeps in the apartment and therefore putting less wear and tear on it. Compared to someone who is on rent allowance and might be in the house most of the day

blastit

odds_on wrote: »

But that is, in fact, to the benefit of the tenant as the landlord cannot make a claim against the tenant. And if it is a place you would not put a dog in, why would you rent it in the first place?

The landlord breaks the law for the benefit of the tenant yeah right. People have to stay in kips as they sometimes have nowhere else.That does not excuse the landlords shameful behaviour.

i'm outa here the landlord love in is not for me

Duiske

blastit wrote: »

And don't forget the landlords who do not register with the relevant authority--"oh we don't bother with that" - and take money for a place you would not put a dog

Can a tenant get rent allowance to live in a property which the landlord has not registered ? Surely SW have access to the list of registered properties ?
And why is rent allowance not paid directly to the landlord, along with the tenants contribution which could be deducted from SW payments ? That would make landlords much more likely to accept RA tenants as their biggest worry, non-payment of rent, would no longer be an issue.

Gatling

hfallada wrote: »

Plus a professional generally only sleeps in the apartment and therefore putting less wear and tear on it. Compared to someone who is on rent allowance and might be in the house most of the day

That's why its called renting an apartment/house,

Not renting a bed to sleep in ,

You rent to live in not just sleep in

Bepolite

Gatling wrote: »

That's why its called renting an apartment/house,

Not renting bed to sleep in ,

You rent to live in

Phone or a really crap haiku?

Gatling

Bepolite wrote: »

Phone or a really crap haiku?

Tablet with over zealous spelling correction :-(

Victor

To assist anyone looking for places that don't allow rent allowance at www.daft.ie/lettings/ on the "advanced options" you can select "Are you looking for places that accept rent allowance?"

Santa Cruz

blastit wrote: »

And don't forget the landlords who do not register with the relevant authority--"oh we don't bother with that" - and take money for a place you would not put a dog

There are thousands of good responsible landlords. There is also a significant number of bad landlords. The PRTB has prosecuted many landlords but really there is a need for a very active campaign of inspection, whistleblower contact etc. that inspector can follow up and deal with the problem landlords.
I will readily admit that a lot of tenants are despicable also and have no concept of hygiene etc.

Need4House

It should be none of the landlords bloody business if you recieve rent allowance. And yes it is blanket discrimination against those percieved to be poor..or of a lower social class. In the UK you do not have to disclose your on rent allowance (housing benefit) you can go straight ahead and lie to the landlord if you find yourself in a position where he/she will not accept it. The payment goes straight to you into your bank. the landlord signs no paperwork and can be kept in the dark..and rightfully so.

There is no legitimate reason any landlord should need to know if your on benefits or not, all they should need is decent references and that you pay your rent on time. Ireland has a fvcked up system of blanket discrimination and everyone seems to think it acceptable..this is the same country that had the tenaments of course..but this is 2013..not much has changed though..The welfare system knows rightly about this unjust discrimination and they know how to fix it, by putting the power in tenants hands and not in the hands of discriminating landlords..but this country is only interested in keeping the rich happy and the poor marginalised.

Bepolite

The flip side of this is it's my house, it's private property and I should be allowed to rent it to whomever I choose, subject to the law. Your beef should be with the council/government that don't have enough local authority housing to protect the vulnerable in society. It seems absolute madness to me that taxpayers should be paying open market rents (or close too, don't get me started on the various shenanigans) for people that can't afford a place to live.

ZENER

Maybe if the PRTB could stand up for landlords who get stung by tenants over familiar with their rights but not their obligations then maybe this situation will change. The PRTB do next to nothing for Landlords in my experience.

Tenants leaving in the middle of the night taking appliances valued over 2 grand and leaving 1000 euro electricity bills and not paying rent on time are common problems in my experience. On several occasions we've had to spend over 3500 euro to get a house fit to live in again after such tenants have departed leaving a dozen black bin bags filled with household waste in one of the rooms. One tenant gave our names as account holders for their ESB bills leaving us responsible for a 500 euro bill.

Other problems include anti-social behaviour caused by younger tenants drinking and making noise disturbing other people nearby and causing Gardai to call us at 3 in the morning, driving around the apartments carpark doing wheel spins @ 2.30am and leaving graffiti on the boundary fences after a boozy BBQ.

In all cases these were social welfare recipients on rent allowance. Very difficult for a landlord to regain trust unless we have some way of getting compensation for the few who do the above. I'm sure there are plenty of honest people who are just down on their luck and have to avail of rent allowance but from a landlords POV we have no choice but to be selective.

Ken

Need4House

ZENER wrote: »

Maybe if the PRTB could stand up for landlords who get stung by tenants over familiar with their rights but not their obligations then maybe this situation will change. The PRTB do next to nothing for Landlords in my experience.

Tenants leaving in the middle of the night taking appliances valued over 2 grand and leaving 1000 euro electricity bills and not paying rent on time are common problems in my experience. On several occasions we've had to spend over 3500 euro to get a house fit to live in again after such tenants have departed leaving a dozen black bin bags filled with household waste in one of the rooms. One tenant gave our names as account holders for their ESB bills leaving us responsible for a 500 euro bill.

Other problems include anti-social behaviour caused by younger tenants drinking and making noise disturbing other people nearby and causing Gardai to call us at 3 in the morning, driving around the apartments carpark doing wheel spins @ 2.30am and leaving graffiti on the boundary fences after a boozy BBQ.

In all cases these were social welfare recipients on rent allowance. Very difficult for a landlord to regain trust unless we have some way of getting compensation for the few who do the above. I'm sure there are plenty of honest people who are just down on their luck and have to avail of rent allowance but from a landlords POV we have no choice but to be selective.

Ken

Thats all well and good..but I have lived next to highly anti social people (professionals) who party right through until 6am and who know there isnt a damned thing I can do about it unless the noise can be heard on the street..as the guards are a joke. It doesnt matter if the thumping bass vibrates your entire house/flat all night every night.

So no its not just those on social welfare, dont talk rubbish. and for landlords to have blanket discrimination against those on rent allowance...you may aswell say all black people are lazy or better still all Irish people are thick, but a person would be considered racist and ignorant as pig sh17 to say things like that, yet your allowed to say similar for those on benefits.. If your a landlord and cant sum up a persons character in 5 minutes of meeting them, or atleast have a damned good idea, then maybe you shouldnt be a landlord. On top of that what do you think "references" are there for, obviously your supposed to make sure you vet tenants, if they have a string of positive landlords prior, its highly unlikley they are going to degenarate into cavemen over night...Also if tenants are that anti social evict them..

If what you say is on the level..and a tenant "stole" appliances worth over 2k, that would clearly be a substansial and serious theft and an issue for the guards...or did you not report that for some myssterious reason only you would be aware of? Mind you the guards are hardly worth calling anyway.

meoklmrk91

ZENER wrote: »

Maybe if the PRTB could stand up for landlords who get stung by tenants over familiar with their rights but not their obligations then maybe this situation will change. The PRTB do next to nothing for Landlords in my experience.

Tenants leaving in the middle of the night taking appliances valued over 2 grand and leaving 1000 euro electricity bills and not paying rent on time are common problems in my experience. On several occasions we've had to spend over 3500 euro to get a house fit to live in again after such tenants have departed leaving a dozen black bin bags filled with household waste in one of the rooms. One tenant gave our names as account holders for their ESB bills leaving us responsible for a 500 euro bill.

Other problems include anti-social behaviour caused by younger tenants drinking and making noise disturbing other people nearby and causing Gardai to call us at 3 in the morning, driving around the apartments carpark doing wheel spins @ 2.30am and leaving graffiti on the boundary fences after a boozy BBQ.

In all cases these were social welfare recipients on rent allowance. Very difficult for a landlord to regain trust unless we have some way of getting compensation for the few who do the above. I'm sure there are plenty of honest people who are just down on their luck and have to avail of rent allowance but from a landlords POV we have no choice but to be selective.

Ken

I have no problem with landlords being selective, at the end of the day the property is their asset and responsibility and if something happens to it then they have to pay for it, listen to neighbours and the gardai. However I think a blanket no rent allowance ban is a a real pity.

Yes there are tennants recieving rent allowance who are like this, I know of them, they disgust me but the system should be targeted because of this not other RA recipients. Why can't a landlord make a complaint to the Council/HSE and have their RA stopped until the damage is paid for? I am an RA tennant, I keep the house well, my rent is always paid on time, I have never had a house party despite the fact that I am in my early 20's. I know my landlord would have no problem asking me to leave of I caused any bit of bother. Unlike the problem landlords who don't care what their tennants do as long as the rent is paid.

So here's what I propose, get legislation in place to deal with problem landlords and problem tenants. Landlords should ask for references regardless of what kind of tennant they are taking on and stop the blanket banning of all RA tennants.

ZENER

References aren't worth the paper they are written on regardless of the status of the would be tenant. Let's say you has an undesirable tenant who you wanted rid of but can't because of the various organisations set up to protect them. What do you do? The tenant says they'll leave only if you give them a good reference. You have no choice but to go along with their demands!

We had glowing references for one of our tenants (from a minority group who prefer mobile homes) from their previous landlord. "best tenants we ever had" and "sorry to see them leave" he even came along with them to us to vouch for them. 2 years later and f*** all assistance from the PRTB or the Gardai, 2,500 euro in unpaid rent and appliances sold from the house we had to take matters into our own hands. None of the money lost was recouped, and we had to pay 3,500 to make the house fit to live in again plus pay the mortgage and insurance on the property along with the PRTB donation.

We have had about 5 rent allowance tenants of which 3 caused us problems. We can't be accused of discrimination, we give everyone a fair go but it's just proved too expensive.

A possible solution is if the rent allowance is paid direct to the landlord, it's always a risk otherwise.

Ken

johnnyskeleton

I always assume that anyone with "no rent allowance" is a non tax compliant non-prtb registered landlord and so I avoid them for that reason.

ZENER

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I always assume that anyone with "no rent allowance" is a non tax compliant non-prtb registered landlord and so I avoid them for that reason.

Well in this case you're wrong. We are fully compliant and registered but we have decided that rent allowance applicants simply aren't worth the hassle. Don't blame us though, blame the ones who take advantage of the system and the social welfare system. That said we still have 2 rent allowance tenants who are a pleasure to deal with and whom we have had no problems whatsoever. We don't judge by status, simply by how they behave. Other landlords aren't so patient or tolerant but they are the exception not the rule.

We don't advertise "no rent allowance" but we do take particular care when accepting them, we make no apologies for this and you can be as offended as you like but the simple fact is, it's our property and we'll choose who we want to let it to.

I'm out.

Ken

johnnyskeleton

ZENER wrote: »

Well in this case you're wrong. We are fully compliant and registered but we have decided that rent allowance applicants simply aren't worth the hassle. Don't blame us though, blame the ones who take advantage of the system and the social welfare system. That said we still have 2 rent allowance tenants who are a pleasure to deal with and whom we have had no problems whatsoever. We don't judge by status, simply by how they behave. Other landlords aren't so patient or tolerant but they are the exception not the rule.

I wasn't making any comment directed towards you in particular.

We don't advertise "no rent allowance" but we do take particular care when accepting them, we make no apologies for this and you can be as offended as you like but the simple fact is, it's our property and we'll choose who we want to let it to.

That's fine, but surely by the same token you appreciate my right to rent from whomever I chose to rent from?

ZENER

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That's fine, but surely by the same token you appreciate my right to rent from whomever I chose to rent from?

I appreciate your right to rent from whomever will accept you as a tenant, regardless of your status.

Ken

beauf

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

...Why can't a landlord make a complaint to the Council/HSE and have their RA stopped until the damage is paid for?

The HSE/Council don't care about damage to the LL property because its nothing to do with them. The LL stopping the rent, could mean the LL having no rent while they try to evict the tenant. Could run a loss into many thousands for the LL.

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

.
....get legislation in place to deal with problem landlords and problem tenants. Landlords should ask for references regardless of what kind of tennant they are taking on and stop the blanket banning of all RA tennants.

References can be faked. The LL is very unprotected at the moment. Until this changes its unlikely LL will be less conservative.

The Govt has set the current system up, so that all the risk of loss is on the LL. They don't really have much incentive to change.

meoklmrk91

beauf wrote: »

The HSE/Council don't care about damage to the LL property because its nothing to do with them. The LL stopping the rent, could mean the LL having no rent while they try to evict the tenant. Could run a loss into many thousands for the LL.

What I mean is after they have left, if a tennant isn't paying their rent the the landlord should be able to make a complaint to the HSE/Council and the recipients should be penalised the only way they seem to understand or care about, monitarily, if they are not using their RA money to pay the LL then why should they receive it?

References can be faked. The LL is very unprotected at the moment. Until this changes its unlikely LL will be less conservative.

The Govt has set the current system up, so that all the risk of loss is on the LL. They don't really have much incentive to change.

I know references can be faked, my LL asked me for references, I was honest and told him I couldn't provide any because I had never rented before, I gave him my word and he looked into my backround which I was fine with and he decided to give me a chance, I think it has worked out well for both of us.

Something seriously needs to be done to tackle the kind of RA tennants who don't pay their rent, wreak properties and engage in anti social behavior, they get away with it Scott free, the state is paying for them, the landlord is getting no rent, their property wreaked, their neighbours have to put up with them and so on, they are the only ones who win in the whole situation, and what is worse they are making it much harder for decent RA tennants to get housing as so many LL's have had bad experiences, that means that decent RA tennants have to move into the same area or estate as the bad ones because no landlord of a house in a decent area or estate will have them, and nobody but the desperate would want to live in an area where there is antisocial behaviour going on.

Cody Pomeray

ZENER wrote: »

I appreciate your right to rent from whomever will accept you as a tenant, regardless of your status.

Ken

I think there are plenty of adults who are not dependent on rent allowance, who would not rent from somewhere that says 'no rent allowance'.

Whether you like it or not, rent allowance not accepted screams 'tax evasion' in the eyes of many tenants.

It's a red flag to any responsible person who don't want to support tax evasion, especially when fundamental services are under pressure because of property speculation. But of course, there's also the fact that if they're willing to deceive Revenue, how trustworthy can they be toward tenants?

beauf

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think there are plenty of adults who are not dependent on rent allowance, who would not rent from somewhere that says 'no rent allowance'.

Whether you like it or not, rent allowance not accepted screams 'tax evasion' in the eyes of many tenants. ....

Does any one have an issue with people choosing not to rent somewhere? its not a problem for the LL. Considering the number of threads of tenants happy to rent places which are not registered with the PRTB. Compliant LL are very happy if people don't rent from not compliant LL's. There are problems far beyond tax evasion, with the RA system, indeed the renting market in general. Its peoples free choice it they want to stick their head in the sand and scream tax evasion.

odds_on

Need4House wrote: »

It should be none of the landlords bloody business if you recieve rent allowance. And yes it is blanket discrimination against those percieved to be poor..or of a lower social class. In the UK you do not have to disclose your on rent allowance (housing benefit) you can go straight ahead and lie to the landlord if you find yourself in a position where he/she will not accept it. The payment goes straight to you into your bank. the landlord signs no paperwork and can be kept in the dark..and rightfully so.

There is no legitimate reason any landlord should need to know if your on benefits or not, all they should need is decent references and that you pay your rent on time. Ireland has a fvcked up system of blanket discrimination and everyone seems to think it acceptable..this is the same country that had the tenaments of course..but this is 2013..not much has changed though..The welfare system knows rightly about this unjust discrimination and they know how to fix it, by putting the power in tenants hands and not in the hands of discriminating landlords..but this country is only interested in keeping the rich happy and the poor marginalised.

Whether a tenant is on SW or not may not be any of the landlord's business, but a tenant who does not have a steady job is of great concern. You will find that extremely few landlords would allow a tenant into his property if there was no proof of income.

However, a tenat on SW will be accepted by a greater number of landlords because of the SW payment - though most landlords will suffer a loss on SW tenants due to the SW cap on rent. Landlords can achieve a higher rental income as the going market rate is usually several hundred euro more than can be got from an SW tenant.

odds_on

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think there are plenty of adults who are not dependent on rent allowance, who would not rent from somewhere that says 'no rent allowance'.

Whether you like it or not, rent allowance not accepted screams 'tax evasion' in the eyes of many tenants.

It's a red flag to any responsible person who don't want to support tax evasion, especially when fundamental services are under pressure because of property speculation. But of course, there's also the fact that if they're willing to deceive Revenue, how trustworthy can they be toward tenants?

In that case, you are ruling out the majority of landlords as there are far fewer landlords who will accept rent allowance tenants.

Santa Cruz

There are landlords who evade tax and there are rent allowance tenants who could not be trusted to rent a pig sty. Most landlords are tax compliant. Check out the levels of tax paid by landlords. The bottom line is that renting is a business and previous experience has shown that rent allowance tenants are a risk category. I would rather leave the place empty than take in rent allowance tenants. I worked hard to get a rental property and I am not prepared to have it wrecked by some subsidised layabout.

Jesus Wept

Santa Cruz wrote: »

There are landlords who evade tax and there are rent allowance tenants who could not be trusted to rent a pig sty. Most landlords are tax compliant. Check out the levels of tax paid by landlords. The bottom line is that renting is a business and previous experience has shown that rent allowance tenants are a risk category. I would rather leave the place empty than take in rent allowance tenants. I worked hard to get a rental property and I am not prepared to have it wrecked by some subsidised layabout.

Silly post is silly.

ZENER

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Silly post is silly.

Valuable contribution there, changes the whole direction of this thread :rolleyes:

Why is it assumed that landlords are affluent and rich ? There are plenty who were left homes in wills and are trying to maintain them.

Regardless of the status of a landlord, nobody in their right mind would risk letting a property or providing a service to anyone who they have the slightest doubt about. Just as in any other line of business, word of mouth and reputaion is key. One businessman learns that a customer is unreliable or untrustworthy and pretty soon all businessmen get to hear it. That's how business works, get used to it !

As I said before, if the rent was paid directly to the landlord then things would change. The simple truth is that if the SW/HSE were to do this then that in effect forms a contract with the landlord which is something they just don't want as they would be liable for their claimants. By letting the tenant form the contract then they can claim they aren't responsible as the contract is between the tenant and the landlord.

Ken

Cody Pomeray

odds_on wrote: »

In that case, you are ruling out the majority of landlords as there are far fewer landlords who will accept rent allowance tenants.

I wouldn't like to give my opinion on the proportion of landlords who pay their share of tax. I have been self-employed, and I understand how easy it is to cheat one's taxes. Luckily for the taxpayer, I have never had any serious profit to declare.

I suspect many landlords have very little profit to declare, also. Take from that suspicion what you will. It' simply anecdotal, based on years of trying to persuade landlords to accept non cash, traceable payments.

Bepolite

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Luckily for the taxpayer, I have never had any serious profit to declare.

Completely off topic but his gave me a giggle, reminded me of an old Dave Allen joke about unpaid bus fares.