Aberdeen Angus societies

dmg86

I've recently purchased two pedigree angus heifers and wondering what are the differences between the Irish angus society and the Irish Aberdeen angus society and why would I join one before the other?

Rho b

The Irish Aberdeen Angus Society is the original society and I think is/was affiliated to the Scottish AA Society.
As far as I know because they would not accept Canadian Angus bloodlines in their herdbook the Irish Angus Society was established. I think the herdbook/registrations of Irish Angus Society was run by the Dept of Agri for a time but I could be mistaken.

whelan1

we are with the irish aberdeen angus association based in mohill county leitrim... dont know the reason we are with them as opposed to any other but we are:)

Rho b

From memory and hearing the story at the time it was to do with the fact that there was no "Irish" AA herd register. Members of the Irish Aberdeen Angus Society registered their stock with the original AA herd book based in Scotland. There was controversy over Canadian bloodlines introduced into Ireland and from what I can remember the Irish Aberdeen Angus Society would not register them.
A number of AA breeders got together and demanded that an "Irish" based register be established. I think it was a political/senior civil servant decision at the time that the Dept of Agri be the one who maintained the register.

dmg86 - I would join the society that the heifers are already registered with only for continuity, unless there is a huge difference with membership/registration fees etc.

blue5000

I think they might have tried to re-unite a couple of times, but a few personalities get in the way, some breeders are in both.

wiggy123

i'm with irish aberdeen angus crowd.. its madness the way there is 2 societies... and there the one animal--re angus! ah well--they alot ot politics envolved in it.. foolish!
as said.. who they with--stick with them!! easier.. nearly same price anyway.. re yearly membership--set up costs(re herd name)and registering of calves

mikeoh

Fees are the same with both ...I went with irish Angus as they hold a lot more sales down here near me ...only reason .it dosnt matter which one the cows are in as the one u join will change them for free for u ....best of luck!!

flatout11

always find it funny when i see the 2 of them listed beside other in the journal each year for the pedigree supplement - bit of a monty python peoples front l line about it,
some big personalitys out there in the pedigree game

mikeoh

flatout11 wrote: »

always find it funny when i see the 2 of them listed beside other in the journal each year for the pedigree supplement - bit of a monty python peoples front l line about it,
some big personalitys out there in the pedigree game

Totally agree ,same cattle same people the must be money in it !!.......while we are at it what's the difference between British blues and Belgium blues or is it only that the smell of the British ones s@#t is sweeter!!!

mikeoh

flatout11 wrote: »

always find it funny when i see the 2 of them listed beside other in the journal each year for the pedigree supplement - bit of a monty python peoples front l line about it,
some big personalitys out there in the pedigree game

Totally agree ,same cattle same people the must be money in it !!.......while we are at it what's the difference between British blues and Belgium blues or is it only that the smell of the British ones s@#t is sweeter!!!

redzerologhlen

mikeoh wrote: »

Totally agree ,same cattle same people the must be money in it !!.......while we are at it what's the difference between British blues and Belgium blues or is it only that the smell of the British ones s@#t is sweeter!!!

British blues have been bred to calve naturally in pedigree herds as opposed to cutting calves out of pedigree Belgians!

Rho b

redzerologhlen wrote: »

British blues have been bred to calve naturally in pedigree herds as opposed to cutting calves out of pedigree Belgians!

BB's would not be a breed that I have much interest in but not all BB's need to be "cut" out of their dams. I am referring to breeders who were original importers of BB's into Ireland during the late 80's. There were lots of BB calves on the ground at shows along with their dams.

Re: Mikeoh's post - Maybe the UK bred animals are easier calving but may not reflect what original BB's are? Same as "easy calving" Charlaois in the UK/Ire.

redzerologhlen

Rho b wrote: »

BB's would not be a breed that I have much interest in but not all BB's need to be "cut" out of their dams. I am referring to breeders who were original importers of BB's into Ireland during the late 80's. There were lots of BB calves on the ground at shows along with their dams.

Re: Mikeoh's post - Maybe the UK bred animals are easier calving but may not reflect what original BB's are? Same as "easy calving" Charlaois in the UK/Ire.

Pedigree bb's can not calf naturally.

Rho b

redzerologhlen wrote: »

Pedigree bb's can not calf naturally.

Sorry but you are wrong. They can and have done so. I personally have witnessed/seen calves born "au naturel". Having said that the dam has feck all milk to feed the calf but that is another story.

redzerologhlen

Rho b wrote: »

Sorry but you are wrong. They can and have done so. I personally have witnessed/seen calves born "au naturel". Having said that the dam has feck all milk to feed the calf but that is another story.

I know a few bb breeders and none of theirs do, I would imagine it would be a fair risk to take with a good pedigree cow to be honest. In belgium the section all the blues at calving. Its not 100% not possible but with the current day belgian blues it is highly unlikely they can calve naturally, The british have breed a line of them which are a bit less extreme and with better calving abilitys, thats the difference.

Rho b

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I know a few bb breeders and none of theirs do, I would imagine it would be a fair risk to take with a good pedigree cow to be honest. In belgium the section all the blues at calving. Its not 100% not possible but with the current day belgian blues it is highly unlikely they can calve naturally, The british have breed a line of them which are a bit less extreme and with better calving abilitys, thats the difference.

I would imagine it would be a fair risk to take with a good pedigree cow to be honest.
It is what pedigree breeders do. They take the risk. They try out bull/dam lines so you and I have a selection of sires to choose from. TBH all the pure bred EU societies irrespective of breed, conduct similar studies.
However what constitutes a pure BB in the EU??

flatout11

redzerologhlen wrote: »

I know a few bb breeders and none of theirs do, I would imagine it would be a fair risk to take with a good pedigree cow to be honest. In belgium the section all the blues at calving. Its not 100% not possible but with the current day belgian blues it is highly unlikely they can calve naturally, The british have breed a line of them which are a bit less extreme and with better calving abilitys, thats the difference.

some pb bbs will calve naturally - some are even like elephants inside....
but i think the reason for the name differance is simply down to old fashioned promoting your own - and there good at it

dmg86

Thanks for all the info folks. So just to let ye know I joined the Irish Angus Society. Reasons being from what I understand the only thing Irish about the Irish Aberdeen Angus society is that they have the word Irish Stuck in front of it... other than that it seems to me that its still run by the original society in Scotland with an office based in Leitrim. When the membership fees include the UK VAT rate I wasn't too keen on putting in the British piggy bank!!!

Also I finish cattle through the AA producers group schemes which was set up by the Irish Angus Society. They have brilliant schemes and taught it only fair to join them. They have a lot of work put into it over the last couple of yrs.

Fees work out much the same. I had two AA bulls to be transferred to the Irish Angus society and they are doing that without charge... very straight forward, just send on the old certs and they look after the rest.

I would also agree that its a pity that they cant come to some arrangement and become united as one society but obviously politics and money have a say in that!! it does look bad for the breed.

blue5000

OP any harm to ask what you paid for the heifers and what age are they, what's their breeding like?

whelan1

blue5000 wrote: »

OP any harm to ask what you paid for the heifers and what age are they, what's their breeding like?

are you looking for some? i dont have any but know a lad who does:D

wiggy123

true.. doesn't make sense! I find though aberdeen angus crowd--better website+ info!

blue5000

whelan1 wrote: »

are you looking for some? i dont have any but know a lad who does:D

Wouldn't be an ol' lad would he? Did you get rid of all that bvd yet:eek:

whelan1

blue5000 wrote: »

Wouldn't be an ol' lad would he? Did you get rid of all that bvd yet:eek:

yup no trace of any here, strange case here both my self and my dads herd had a bvd positive calf born in the same week... our herds dont mix but there would be places they could see each other over the fence/ditch. Vet reckins they both came in contact with a bvd + animal- probably a screw of a cull cow- at the same stage of pregnancy, only the calves where + and both dams have had negative calves since . Theres any amount of aa heifers on dd, we have none for sale all sold for this year

Bellview

I'm member of irish angus. The reason I joined originally was the sales in Munster plus keeping the money from reg in Ireland to support the breed within Ireland also at ploughing the largest stand was the irish Angus one. Agree 2 societies looks bad on breed but there are more sales in irish angus than aberdeen.. And if we had a good enough bull there is the 11,000 ped bull calf class in piltown

wiggy123

every1 to there own