Looking for self-defence class

kryptonmight

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I'm interested in possible self-defence classes in the south Dublin area. I'm male, overweight and unfit so I guess I would need something that would accommodate my lack of fitness, at least initially while I work on that.

Any suggestions for classes? I wouldn't rule out completely joining some sort of martial arts club or training but the first plan is something for self defence.

Thanks!

Peetrik

IMO, the only styles that are of real benefit in a confrontation are the ones that compete. Regardless of whether you intend to compete yourself or not its important to train/spar against people who do compete.

Any idea if you would prefer to strike (punch/kick/etc) or grapple (wrestle/throw/etc)?

Where are you based?

kryptonmight

I might have a preference towards punching and kicking but I'm not sure. I used to do karate in my teens but always hated the way they tried to sweep me

I'm based in south county Dublin/Dublin 18 area.

hidinginthebush

The usual advice is, as Peetrik said, firstly decide if you're looking to grapple (judo / bjj etc) or strike (boxing / muay thai etc) and go from there. See what clubs are in your locality and try a few out, stick with the one you enjoy most.

You're better doing something you enjoy, and don't worry about your lack of fitness, that will come in time.

Also, don't think it as taking up something purely for self defense. While that may be your motivation, as you get better and more confident, you just get better at avoiding confrontation / knowing what to look for. You'll also become more outwardly confident, which will make any would be attackers think twice about messing with you. Basically, the better you get, the less likely it is you'll have to apply your skills (I hate this term) 'on the street'.

I'd also agree that you're best off getting into something that applies the techniques in a class, usually through sparring. Don't worry, on your first day you won't be thrown into a ring to defend yourself against 5 black belts or anything like that!

Whatever you choose, make sure you enjoy it!

Peetrik

kryptonmight wrote: »

I might have a preference towards punching and kicking but I'm not sure.

In that case I'd recommend either Thai Boxing, Boxing, or striking for MMA. The most important thing is that they do regular full contact sparring and by and large those styles compete and consistently train effectively.

As hidinginthebush said, try a few places and stick with the one you enjoy the most.

Best of luck

kryptonmight

When you say full contact, you mean they are trying to kick and punch as hard as possible? even in training? I thought that would just be competition only? Not sure I am too keen on getting beat up a couple of times a week in training...

hidinginthebush

kryptonmight wrote: »

When you say full contact, you mean they are trying to kick and punch as hard as possible? even in training? I thought that would just be competition only? Not sure I am too keen on getting beat up a couple of times a week in training...

Don't worry about it. You won't be made do it for a few weeks, and if you're up against someone better than you, they won't outright pummel you for the sake of their ego. Most places will put you against someone of a similar level if they're getting you to spar.

Though it can be a learning (and humbling) experience going up against someone much better than you.

Peetrik

kryptonmight wrote: »

When you say full contact, you mean they are trying to kick and punch as hard as possible? even in training? I thought that would just be competition only? Not sure I am too keen on getting beat up a couple of times a week in training...

Nope. With semi contact sports (kickboxing/taekwondo etc) my experience has been that if they do spar they only make the lightest contact or slow motion so as not to fully connect, in my opinion its a terrible way to train.

When I say full contact I don't mean full force, you can still safely follow through on your strikes while going at 50% (or less)... the important thing is not to get used to stopping at the target, you have to be really trying to hit each other.

ikku

Why not look for a good Karate club ,most will let you try a class for free ,WSKF ,have a club in Ballyroan with good instructors and produce very good Karate athletes /

Dyr

kryptonmight wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I'm interested in possible self-defence classes in the south Dublin area. I'm male, overweight and unfit so I guess I would need something that would accommodate my lack of fitness, at least initially while I work on that.

Any suggestions for classes? I wouldn't rule out completely joining some sort of martial arts club or training but the first plan is something for self defence.

Thanks!

If you want looking for self defence read these two books and then take it from there:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181/ref=la_B002M54CNW_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382314134&sr=1-1


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Facing-Violence-Unexpected-Rory-Miller/dp/1594392137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382314122&sr=8-1&keywords=facing+violence

Michael O Leary

kryptonmight wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I'm interested in possible self-defence classes in the south Dublin area. I'm male, overweight and unfit so I guess I would need something that would accommodate my lack of fitness, at least initially while I work on that.

Any suggestions for classes? I wouldn't rule out completely joining some sort of martial arts club or training but the first plan is something for self defence.

Thanks!

www.wingtsun-blanchardstown.ie
Classes three times a week and the first month is free. I know it is not south Dublin but we might as well be as we are on the M50. Try a few classes and see if it is what you are looking for.

Zen65

kryptonmight wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out completely joining some sort of martial arts club or training but the first plan is something for self defence.

You're kidding yourself if you think you'll gain a real skill in self-defence without regular training. Pure self-defence training is primarily about awareness rather than acquiring the real skills.

The WSKF club in Ballyroan is a good one, so I would support the suggestion already made here. There's also a good Wado Ryu club in Monkstown run by Niall Malone.

Every karate club will have people trying to sweep you . . that's not to be feared but rather to be enjoyed, at least when you learn to deal with those attacks.

As others have said, if you want immediate self-defence benefit then a MMA club will give you a quicker return, but the price you pay there is that the sparring happens sooner and generally involves more contact. Again, this is not to be feared, but to be seen as a challenge to overcome.

Kungfu

kryptonmight wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. I'm interested in possible self-defence classes in the south Dublin area. I'm male, overweight and unfit so I guess I would need something that would accommodate my lack of fitness, at least initially while I work on that.

Any suggestions for classes? I wouldn't rule out completely joining some sort of martial arts club or training but the first plan is something for self defence.

Thanks!

IMAC....Irish Martial Arts Commission Ph 01-4758627/email info@imac.ie

ozguest

I'd suggest to go and checkout Krav Maga classes for self defense as well. It's used by Police and Military.

http://krav.ie/about-krav-maga/
http://www.kravmaga.ie/general-self-defence.html

arybvtcw0eolkf

ozguest wrote: »

I'd suggest to go and checkout Krav Maga classes for self defense as well. It's used by Police and Military.

http://krav.ie/about-krav-maga/
http://www.kravmaga.ie/general-self-defence.html

From the first link..

I have never seen a KM clip which wasn't cringe worthy ~ and this one continues in that awful tradition.

Peetrik

Angelique Calm Grenade wrote: »

From the first link..
I have never seen a KM clip which wasn't cringe worthy ~ and this one continues in that awful tradition.

Aw thank christ someone else said it. The irony of calling it a 'reality based system' when its about as away with the fairys as you can get.

Alphac

kryptonmight wrote: »

I might have a preference towards punching and kicking but I'm not sure. I used to do karate in my teens but always hated the way they tried to sweep me

I'm based in south county Dublin/Dublin 18 area.

Hey there, I know your pain - it's tough getting back into it! I am D.18 too and there are a few excellent places nearby. I have background in Karate - but once I called in and tried this place I was set (main st. Dundrum). There is a free trial (x2 weeks) for fundamentals class; great atmosphere, great coach - will get you fit too!
http://www.graciebarradublin.tk/

Also here, if you are the other side of D.18 - have heard great things.
http://ecjja.com/

Finally if you are still keen on Karate, shotokan with a modern twist - a wee gem of a dojo in Sandyford Industrial Est, top notch.
https://www.facebook.com/MorningStarDojo

I am sure there are many more in the locality - my advise is pick a club that you can get to regularly, try out the freebie classes and check out the general feeling in the place - find one that matches your expectations of training.

Good luck, let us know how you get on!

Alphac

Peetrik wrote: »

Aw thank christ someone else said it. The irony of calling it a 'reality based system' when its about as away with the fairys as you can get.

PS - Honestly I didn't think it was THAT bad, most self defense is taught this way. It is a kind of martial arts for someone who doesnt actually want to fight/train live.

Peetrik

Alphac wrote: »

PS - Honestly I didn't think it was THAT bad, most self defense is taught this way. It is a kind of martial arts for someone who doesnt actually want to fight/train live.

It is bad. It really really is. What's shown in the video, is IMO a prime example of how not to train.
People pairing off and choreographing a set of flashy moves in slow motion, the whole time having the delusion of competence verbally reinforced by the coach. I could write an essay on how many different things are wrong it it.

Not wanting to get hit is completely reasonable, taking money off people for that muck though is akin to advertising driving lessons and putting people in bumper cars, telling them the whole time that this driving is so amazing that they can't use it on the road where there are rules.

Alphac

Peetrik wrote: »

Not wanting to get hit is completely reasonable, taking money off people for that muck though is akin to advertising driving lessons and putting people in bumper cars, telling them the whole time that this driving is so amazing that they can't use it on the road where there are rules.

That's hilarious, great analogy. I cant forward much of an argument against this logic -except that the majority of non competitive/non fight based martial arts teach self defense using this approach. I am not really up to speed on Krav Maga, and have no idea if its costly vs. your local dojo, I've never heard of a KM club and I have been knocking about a while. Sounds like that might be a good thing...

arybvtcw0eolkf

Alphac wrote: »

I've never heard of a KM club and I have been knocking about a while. Sounds like that might be a good thing...

Why?.

Alphac

Angelique Calm Grenade wrote: »

Why?.

My bad sentence structure, I dont know much about KM - I haven't heard of any clubs practicing, based on the review given on this thread it doesnt sound like I missing out

BenEadir

If you are in D18/Stillorgan area these guys might be worth checking out - http://blackwaterma.ie. They train in St Benildus college on the Upper Kilmacud Road.

Ben

arybvtcw0eolkf

BenThere wrote: »

If you are in D18/Stillorgan area these guys might be worth checking out - http://blackwaterma.ie. They train in St Benildus college on the Upper Kilmacud Road.

Ben

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wogY88Hu8nE

Hardcore!

Peetrik

BenThere wrote: »

If you are in D18/Stillorgan area these guys might be worth checking out - [video]. They train in St Benildus college on the Upper Kilmacud Road.

Ben

God damn it Ben, a whole thread of shooting down choreography from nonsense MA clubs and you post this. You just... you just don't get it do you.

BenEadir

Peetrik wrote: »

God damn it Ben, a whole thread of shooting down choreography from nonsense MA clubs and you post this. You just... you just don't get it do you.

I hope your assumption that the video captures all the training they undertake isn't a reflection of how you process information relating to risk assessment. Jumping to conclusions based on a 78 second video designed as a marketing tool to communicate to potential members rather than show how hard they spar is a credit to you. You really do get it don't you :rolleyes:

Ben

Peetrik

BenThere wrote: »

I hope your assumption that the video captures all the training they undertake isn't a reflection of how you process information relating to risk assessment. Jumping to conclusions based on a 78 second video designed as a marketing tool to communicate to potential members rather than show how hard they spar is a credit to you. You really do get it don't you :rolleyes:

Ben

Of course I do. It's their advertisement! Why in the name of god would they advertise kids standing in rows and men choreographing fighting off multiple armed attackers in slow motion if that's not what they do at the club? To throw people off the scent?

BenEadir

Peetrik wrote: »

Of course I do. It's their advertisement! Why in the name of god would they advertise kids standing in rows and men choreographing fighting off multiple armed attackers in slow motion if that's not what they do at the club?

Let me explain this in a way you might understand

To ........... show..........they.........are.........a..........child........friendly...........club

You don't have a masters in marketing by any chance do you?

Peetrik

BenThere wrote: »

Let me explain this in a way you might understand

To ........... show..........they.........are.........a..........child........friendly...........club

You don't have a masters in marketing by any chance do you?

Haha what has a child friendly club have to do with anything? The OP asked for something he could defend himself with, hence the 'don't bother with crap styles' debate.

Did you read any of the thread?

Mellor

BenThere wrote: »

Let me explain this in a way you might understand

To ........... show..........they.........are.........a..........child........friendly...........club

You don't have a masters in marketing by any chance do you?

The website says they have separate child and adult classes/programs. So the clips from the adult class mean nothing in terms of being child friendly.

The history section names 25 or so MAs (I assume thats to cast a wide net for google) but doesn't say which they actually teach. The lists the instructor's black belt, but doesn't say in what art. Hardly confidence boosting.

The description of their system is a bit ludicrous. It reads like something a spambot would come out with.
They avoid "excessive specificity" but later advance to "esoteric techniques". :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

BenThere wrote: »

Let me explain this in a way you might understand

To ........... show..........they.........are.........a..........child........friendly...........club

You don't have a masters in marketing by any chance do you?

You want realistic, tough, alive training for children..

Thats a club in Celbridge, but it reflects the type of training and competition you'll find in a proper child friendly and effective club.

Its worth a look.

average hero

Those kids in that video doing Judo have good technique - they could show me a thing or two :P.

OP, if you are looking for self-defense and fitness, I recommend the two that I have (some) experience in - boxing and Judo, and in that order.

For fitness, both sports offer tough workouts. You WILL get fitter. Both sports offer robust/practical training with regards to self-defense too such as your reaction to being grabbed/grappling in Judo and taking a couple of boxes in boxing and continuing to defend/attack.

Both of these sports also allow for sparring (called randori in Judo) which give you a platform to evaluate your skills and your improvement. They are both practical sparring sessions that translate (somewhat) onto the street. They are good basic sports from which you can move onto others. For example - move to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu after a couple of years doing Judo, or going to Muay Thai/Kickboxing from boxing if you were that way inclined.

I will not bash other styles as I have no experience in them, but I would be very wary of these fancy combinations you see in certain videos. Firstly, if you want a self-defense, in my opinion the 'Keep It Simple' mantra applies. Nothing more simple than grabbing someone who grabs you or giving a straightforward box.

Secondly, a lot of the self-defense or 'combatives' videos show lethal blows being 'practiced' (in slow motion and not actually connecting also). The vast majority of people (hopefully) won't have the mental fortitude to do that, even in serious situations, if they do - they have to live with the fact they killed someone and may go to jail. My point is that it really isn't viable to learn these combatives and practically apply them on the street in my opinion.

Learning to grab or box and get the hell out of there is more than sufficient in 99% of situations and your fitness and confidence will more than likely make you less of a target so for that reason I say look into Boxing and/or Judo.

pablohoney87

That judo video was awesome

Doug Cartel

Without commenting on the actual class Blackwater guys have, their website really could do with a lot of work to say the least.

I mean, is that guy in their header image really wearing a watch while training? I'm all for the idea of training in your regular clothes to you're prepared, but that just seams like it's going to lead to an unnecessary number of superficial cuts and bruises.

Masazer

If you don't mind me jumping in to your small conversation there....

I am not playing smart or something like that, but Peetrik and Makikomi are obviously hardcore MMA lads...
Fair play and I respect MMA as a SPORT...Nothing more then that....
Now, I am doing Krav Maga, which you were taking piss out there in your comments....
I had good few MMA lads coming through the club and training's and they couldn't cope on with our way of training. They couldn't get over being kicked into the bollocks, hit into the throat, eyse pulled out of their heads, etc....
We don't do any forms or stupid things...We prepare people for streets...In our club people fight, do sparring regularly but Krav Maga way and do a load of hard punching & kicking drills with pressure drills...
So with all do respect towards your two, but I think that you have pushed it bit to much....
Best regards,
Masazer

Doug Cartel

As far as I know, Makikomi has trained Krav in Israel with the IDF.

Out of interest how often do you pull someone's eyes out of their head in an average training session?

Morph the Cat

Masazer wrote: »

eyse pulled out of their heads,

This ruins any credibility your post may have had.

Masazer

In Israel with IDF....:)
Jesus...I hear that very regularly here in Ireland...

We teach Self Defense, and everything that goes with that...
Of course, as one of the lads mentioned before that there are certain things in self defense training's that shouldn't be used (at all), if not necessary...There are moves like that, and of course we make sure that all of our students understand that Krav Maga is not sport, and if they use certain things they could be liable for it.
We could argue those points for ages, but every discipline or martial art is different, and it all comes down to the person who is practicing it.
My point was, I hate people who judge other things, if they never tried it, or done it for one class....
Who we are here to judge any of the Martial Arts or Defense Systems...Each of those disciplines has some great things and some bad things...
So learn the best out of it, and leave the bad thing....

Masazer...

Doug Cartel

Masazer wrote: »

In Israel with IDF....:)
Jesus...I hear that very regularly here in Ireland...

Well he was stationed out there.

Mak, please correct me if I'm wrong/giving out too much of your personal info.

Masazer

If he was, then fair play....

But don't take me wrong...Being involved with Krav in this country for so long, I have heard a lot of people saying that, so I became very cautious of those that say that....

Peetrik

Masazer wrote: »

Now, I am doing Krav Maga, which you were taking piss out there in your comments....

Hi Masazer, couple of points.

I was taking the piss out of the training methods displayed in the video. I wasn't taking the piss out of KM, just the method of training displayed both in the KM video and the Blackwater SD video and any video be it TMA, SD or MMA where there is a lone guy taking on multiple armed opponents in slow motion or standing in lines punching the air.

That said, it's been a long time since I've seen a KM club that I wouldn't readily take the piss out of. Mostly due to the wild claims on the site about what it can teach in ridiculously short amounts of time or how there are no rules on 'da streetz' blah blah. Usually accompanied by a video similar to the one above.

It's a topic that's been done to absolute death here (example) and I've little desire to go through the whole thing again.

Masazer

Hi Peetrik,

I read through all of the posts this morning, and I have to apologize because I understand what you mean and what you saying now... I didn't read all of it yesterday...

And I DO agree with you fully...I have seen and trained with some ridiculous people through the years, which have no clue what Krav is and what does it represents. Same as other Martial Arts that I have spent years doing them and perfecting them.
Also I hate those COMMERCIAL clubs (Krav or anything else), that promises it can teach you to be SUPERMAN in a week....hahahahahahahahhahahahahha.....If people are that stupid, then let them...
There is NO way to teach someone anything in a couple of weeks or those 6 weeks or 12 weeks training courses...Its all down to a hard workout, strict training's and load of punching, kicking, sparring and fighting drills....There is no EASY way...
So one more time, my apologize for exploding to quickly...
Best regards to all from me....

"So that one may walk in peace".....:)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Well he was stationed out there.

Mak, please correct me if I'm wrong/giving out too much of your personal info.

You're not wrong, and because I'm still serving I can't go into details here.

I also run a smallish Judo/BJJ/MMA training group in work ~ we're also all Unarmed Combat trained/instructors too.. And speaking from personal experience the very best self defense training you'll get anywhere is MMA, Boxing, Muay Thai and the various wrestling styles which train against resisting partners and in competition.

Anyone who seriously tries to tell me they train real eye gouging (pulling eyes out of heads), kicks in the balls, fish hooking etc etc is a Walter pure and simple.

Doug Cartel

Angelique Calm Grenade wrote: »

You're not wrong, and because I'm still serving I can't go into details here.

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted on your behalf like that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted on your behalf like that.

Oh no its completely cool, I'm just not in a position whereby I can go into detail or give opinion on work.

Mouthalmighty

Just for the OP pick a martial art/sport that does good high intensity training against non-compliant opponents. Wrestling/mma/bjj i have found to be brilliant in boosting confidence and more importantly losing weight and getting fit. As regards to self defence which is more likely I ask you being attacked by 5 guys who will queue up for you or a heart attack from lack of exercise? Always remember that in self defence if someone really wants to do you in no amount of KM or anything else will help. Stay fit and healthy and conditioned and you will learn the skills and wherewithall (if in a decent club where competitive sparring etc is used) to react to a situation from muscle memory. (to be honest i can't put that in another way and I don't know if I'm making sense).
Use the martial arts club (again hard competitive training is needed) to get in shape, feel better about yourself and you will hold yourself in a more confident manner which in itself is a deterrent to would be attackers.
Another point to remember multiple/ armed assailants the best martial art is the 100yard dash. No amount of the crap one sees on the net or elsewhere will save you. RUN. Call the guards. Job done. Most self defence is common sense. Don't walk home alone etc.
Again remember to get good at any good applicable martial art takes YEARS so don't expect to do a "Steven Seagal" after 2 lessons. You mentioned you were overweight (please don't take this the wrong way) so don't take the easy way out or give up too soon. Again in a good club you will get your a$$ handed to you repeatedly this is how you get better. it is a very slow arduous process there are no quick fixes so don't look for any.

Mouthalmighty

Good advice to follow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le3IUKp0I_o

Kungfu

Still looking?!

Honestly, if you ask on here the advice you will get from most would be an attempt to point you towards whatever martial art whoever is responding to you practices.

Your best bet would be to Google, try for a start NGBs for martial arts. Look up the phone book. Look on local noticeboards etc and go along to check out different systems. If you have the time and money you might even try out classes in more than one style at the same time before choosing to commit to one.

PS you might consider consulting your GP before starting out on any training.