Advice for those of us who Believe in keeping their dogs intact.

Bullseye1

I thought it might be useful to get some feedback from those wih experience in keeping males/females who are still both intact. What tips do you have for keeing dogs apart when the females come into season?

I really don't want to get into the whole argument for and against spaying and neautering. This is for the people who want to keep their pets intact but who are not interested in breeding.

jandm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

This is for the people who want to keep their pets intact but who are not interested in breeding.

Why?

Bullseye1

Because some of us have have come to the conclusion that the procedure is an unnecessary intervention and we want to be responsible owners and not add to the dog population. If your for spaying and neutering fine I'm not. So it's for like minded people.

gobo99

"Advice for those of us who Believe in keeping their dogs intact."
Start planning now for those unwanted litters,

Bullseye1

So you think its impossible to keep dogs intact and prevent litters? Has you experience or are you of the belief that they should be neutered and spayed? Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP. Sigh.

DBB

"Advice for those of us who Believe in keeping their dogs intact."
Start planning now for those unwanted litters,

Okay all, quit the misinformation. Whether you like it or not, people can and do manage to keep unneutered dogs of both sexes without creating ANY unwanted pups. As long as they're responsible about it, and have effective measures in place to prevent matings, then that's their choice.
I'd ask now that people show some respect for these owners: you may not agree with it, but you're not going to make snidey comments about them in this forum.
Keep it constructive, or don't post.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

jandm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Because some of us have have come to the conclusion that the procedure is an unnecessary intervention

And again why?
Why expose your dog to an increased risk of testicular cancer?
Why expose your bitch to an increased risk of mammary tumours?
Why also put her through the stress of fending off unwanted attention and then looking for a mate when she's in season when she is not going to be bred?
Also accidents will happen!
Not arguing - genuinely curious...

gobo99

I havn't put myself in the position of having to keep sociable animals isolated. I have seen the results of people who have tried, two of them are asleep downstairs, others aren't so lucky.
I'll leave you to your thread, good luck with whatever you decide.

Edit: read the mod note, I'm out

Bullseye1

jandm wrote: »

And again why?
Why expose your dog to an increased risk of testicular cancer?
Why expose your bitch to an increased risk of mammary tumours?
Why also put her through the stress of fending off unwanted attention and then looking for a mate when she's in season when she is not going to be bred?
Also accidents will happen!
Not arguing - genuinely curious...

These are all questions I've asked myself. I would question those papers and reports on increased cancers when dogs left in tact. I've had dogs al my life and never neutered any of the males and they all lived to a good age. Im of the opinion that dog owners have been fed so much disinformation on the subject and on vaccinations by the Vetenary industry to create an income. Dogs can lead perfectly healthy lives without having the procedure. The real difficulty is when you decide I keep two dogs of the opposite sex. I've no experience of two intact dogs. Unfortunately I was convinced by my vets to have my female spayed at six months. I brought my male pup in and the first thing they at is she am I having him neutered. I explained that with larger breeds it was better to allowthtmfy develop before considering that option and the answer was "yeah that is true".

If I decide to add a third dog to my family it will most likely be a female and I'd like advice on tips on doing so. I know from talking with some beeders that it's challenging. Some even have friends take their dog for the period of time the female is in heat.

jandm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The real difficulty is when you decide I keep two dogs of the opposite sex.

Some in-laws had 2 terrier girls unspayed - house was a war zone when they were in season :-D

fiounnalbe

[QUOTE=Bullseye1;87100519 Im of the opinion that dog owners have been fed so much disinformation on the subject and on vaccinations by the Vetenary industry to create an income. [/QUOTE]

If this is your opinion of your vet I think you should change vets, in my experience vets are very rarely in it for the money, they have worked hard in college and now work very hard in a virtually thankless job for their love of animals. I would hope that the reason vets push these vaccinations and neutering is to hopefully someday see an end to the suffering of all the abandoned pups they see each year and the endless needless deaths from the likes of parvo. Because a lot of owners with intact dogs aren't going to be responsible like you and suddenly theres 7 more unwanted pups in the world.

With regard your first post, keeping a male intact and female in heat near each other is, from personal experience, hell on earth!!! Our youngest dog is female who just came into heat recently for the first time, she's a large breed so I wanted to make sure she has grown properly before getting her fixed. (We live in the country and always neuter our pets to prevent our males straying in search of females and to prevent unwanted intact males coming in search of our females!!)

Our other male dogs are neutered except one new rescue we took in a few months back. He is normally as quiet as a mouse, you wouldn't know he was there. During her heat, he chewed through a wooden door to try and get to her, he howled constantly all night and he kept starting fights with the other dogs even though they weren't in the slightest bit interested in the female. That meant he also had to be separated from the other dogs which led to him not eating and being really depressed....never again. Everyone shall be loosing their reproductive organs in the next few months!!!

borderlinemeath

While there has been pressure by vets to get pets neutered, and I do believe this is partly down to generating some income, some percentage of it has to be down to the fact that a lot of pet owners aren't responsible enough to keep their intact dogs apart, or contained on their property and end up with unwanted puppies.

In males, yes there has been recent studies showing that in large and giant breeds the risk of osteosarcoma is greatly increased if the dog is neutered too early. In females the risk is less so and I think vets do look for pet owners to spay before their first heat in order to dispel the myth that 'it's better for a bitch to have a litter before she's spayed'.

That said, as a female dog gets older there is a far more increased risk of pyometra with every heat, coupled with some distress if the bitch encounters a phantom pregnancy. My bitch had a phantom pregnancy for every heat and it was quite distressing for her. She would be so, so melancholy for a couple of weeks, minding a few favourite toys, but it was when we brought home our rescued (neutered) male that she got a bit aggressive towards him when she was minding her "puppies" that made the decision. Also the fact that 2 months previously while in heat had also caused a local unneutered male to continually break out of his garden to try and get to her.

On the downside of getting her neutered she put on 3/4kg in a heartbeat. No increase in food, (she was always a picky eater) and the same level of exercise and it just happened so, so quickly. She's lost the extra weight now, but I've been far more careful with portion sizes.
On the plus side, no risk of pyometra - which increases in likelyhood when the bitch is older. Pyometra would be probably the biggest risk with keeping your bitch intact. And no more phantom pregnancies. The risk of mammary cancer is there still, but it's slim.

Having said all that I mind dogs and I've had occasions where I've had a couple of bitches here in heat. (once known to the owner, it was an emergency overnight) and once when the bitch had been in heat but there were no signs as she kept herself fastidiously clean. Keeping them separate from the one intact male I had here was tough, but it was quite distressing for him. He would continually salivate and get distressed, even though he could be a fair distance away but he could easily sense her. Another thing to consider was the neutered males were also completely aroused, even though they weren't as distressed, they knew something was up. Luckily she wasn't 'putting out' so no ties were made but they were like bees around a honeypot!

Knine

I keep intact dogs as I show & more recently do a bit of agility. I simply keep keep the dog/s separate from the bitches when one is in heat. By far my biggest problem is outside dogs that are allowed to stray. If they were to cop on that I had a bitch in heat I would have a gang of dogs outside my door.

I have never had an unwanted litter. I have never had a dog or bitch die from conditions caused by not spaying or neutering. I do get older bitches spayed though usually when they are about 6. If they are not top quality they will never have a litter & will be spayed much younger.

There is often a lot of dogs coming & going from my house, visiting etc . There is never any fighting. Mine are very well socialised & that helps greatly.

Just because someone keeps intact dogs does not mean unwanted puppies & dogs dying from pyometra or testicular cancer etc

alie

We adopted a female springer spaniel last year, we were led to believe she had been spayed however she came into heat soon after, we were going to leave her intact as none of our other dogs were neutered, and no we never had unwanted puppies. With the bitch its different, its very messy and she is nearly 10 , this is her 2 nd cycle since we took her , and she gets very moody and worried, its messy also, the house is covered in puppy pads. We don't bring her out during the day , late at night we sneak down to the field for a run . I have made an appointment for 3 months after she's finished to be spayed.

borderlinemeath

Knine wrote: »

I keep intact dogs as I show & more recently do a bit of agility. I simply keep keep the dog/s separate from the bitches when one is in heat. By far my biggest problem is outside dogs that are allowed to stray. If they were to cop on that I had a bitch in heat I would have a gang of dogs outside my door.

I have never had an unwanted litter. I have never had a dog or bitch die from conditions caused by not spaying or neutering. I do get older bitches spayed though usually when they are about 6. If they are not top quality they will never have a litter & will be spayed much younger.

There is often a lot of dogs coming & going from my house, visiting etc . There is never any fighting. Mine are very well socialised & that helps greatly.

Just because someone keeps intact dogs does not mean unwanted puppies & dogs dying from pyometra or testicular cancer etc

That just underpins what we say all the time here to dog owners looking for advice, every dog is different and every dog will react differently to situations. I've never experienced pyometra but by all accounts it can be fatal and can happen without the owner even knowing but it does happen. I've kept dogs apart but it can be very tough going and I would be fairly militant about it but I would imagine there's a lot of people out there who don't recognise signs and then it can be too late.

And I completely agree it's other dogs out there that can be the worst to deal with. The dog that continually broke out to get to my girl left scrape/nail marks in a solid wood gate. Also I was so worried for his safety out on the road, and felt a bit guilty as I felt he was only escaping because of my dog. Having seen what he did to our gate in a matter of a few minutes I could only imagine what he did up in his own house.

Wibbs

For me there are two strands to this. Neutering overall, yay or nay and neutering as a gender specific thing. Though I'm dead set against the blanket neutering mantra pushed by many, if I had a female dog I would neuter her. Study after study has shown that neutering does reduce the risk of various conditions and diseases. I'd do it before her first season too. The idea that letting them have a season is mumbo jumbo with no basis in science.

However in the case of male dogs I would not neuter them. This goes triple for large breeds. I'd certainly not neuter them before maturity, no way in hell. Again studies show few advantages and lots of disadvantages. The testicular cancer thing is a red herring for a start and nuetering increases the risk of prostate problems four fold, never mind muscular skeletal development issues, though if you were to read a few pro neutering pamphlets they'll claim the exact opposite. If preventing unwanted puppies is the issue then why not advocate vasectomies? That procedure would be significantly less invasive and traumatic than castration and would keep the hormonal levels right.

As for vets pushing this as an agenda? I don't buy it. Like any area vets will follow professional "fashion" and current memes. It's not a big conspiracy. Other examples of such memes are yearly vaccinations and the promotion of dog food in many surgeries. Yearly vaccinations are also backed up by pet insurance policies so once you have that you're stuck into current practice, yet even the least logical person must ask how a human can get to 80 years of age with maybe 5 - 10 vaccinations in life, yet your average dog that makes it to 12-14 could have 5 vaccinations per year of life. Does not compute. Not unless vet science exists in a parallel universe. Dog food another issue. While I'm no hardcore raw food faddist, again it takes little logic to ask why we are told feeding meat flavoured weetabix to an apex predator is anything approaching sensible, even preferable. The old saying "as fit as a butchers dog" has a lot of truth to it. I have actually had three vets tell me to my face that feeding dogs raw meat was a bad thing and raw bones were a disaster waiting to happen*.


As an aside I have to say I'm impressed by the subtle change on the forum. Not so long ago any suggestion that neutering may be questionable would be seen as irresponsible at best. Really good to see there is now an avenue to discuss both sides of the argument.




*That said I would exercise caution with bones. 1) contrary to what many raw food advocates will claim, wild canids don't generally eat raw bones until they're older and their dentition has fully formed(up to that point most of their food is predigested and prebroken down, cooked essentially, by the adults who regurgitate for the juveniles). 2) Dogs are not wild canids and the vast majority of dog breeds don't have the dentition, jaw strength nor the digestive strength of wild canids. So feeding a toy dog the same food as an adult wolf is clearly odd. 3 dogs like people can differ and some take to raw like fish to water while others don't.

fatmammycat

I'm keeping my male GSD intact, and I doubt I will breed him at any time. He can't roam, he can't get off my property to procreate willy-nilly and has shown no interest in doing so.
I think testosterone has had a very bad rap over the years and I wonder about that. I feel a large dog, such as I have, needs his hormones to develop and grow, and before I made this decision, I read a lot about immaturity, increase in certain cancers post-neutering and so forth. Should he have a problem with his testicles at some date, I will address this with my vet and if castration is advised I wouldn't hesitate to do so. But until then, I see it as putting him through an operation for absolutely no particular reason.
Anecdotally, I think dogs who are neutered very pre- six months, seem puppyish to me, a little skittish in some cases. Two of the GSDs I walk with were neutered at six and seven months and I can see the difference in temperament and physically there are differences too: they're leggier, lighter limbed, with more feminine faces, where as my own dog is heavier limbed, deeper chested, with a more square masculine face. I realise this is purely anecdotal, all dogs develop in their own time and way, but it struck me and as a result I take note if it. The other intact males I know, are quite masculine looking too.
Regarding temperament, being intact has made no impact on my dog's friendliness at all. He is the most affectionate dog we've ever owned, devoted to his family, calm and pleasant around strangers and hugely tolerant of other dogs, even dogs barking in his face. His confidence in uncertain situations is a real eye-opener to me, I can actually see him working things out, and again I put this down to a certain level of maturity and of course his basic training kicking in. For years I had been led to believe the mantra that 'intact dogs are more aggressive' and didn't even question it really. Now I think differently.
I think frustrated, under exercised, unsocialised, territorial or frightened dogs have the capacity to be aggressive, intact or not. I think well trained, well exercised, social dogs are least likely to be aggressive, intact or not, and that's the message I would prefer to see being pushed.

muddypaws

I'll just echo Wibbs' post really, I think I will continue to get females spayed, but perhaps wouldn't get males neutered, and definitely not before they are mature. I also really like the fact that this can be discussed on here sensibly, with rational arguments on both sides, I used to be of the neuter, neuter, neuter brigade, but have changed my mind.

borderlinemeath

Wibbs wrote: »

For me there are two strands to this. Neutering overall, yay or nay and neutering as a gender specific thing. Though I'm dead set against the blanket neutering mantra pushed by many, if I had a female dog I would neuter her. Study after study has shown that neutering does reduce the risk of various conditions and diseases. I'd do it before her first season too. The idea that letting them have a season is mumbo jumbo with no basis in science.

The research carried out into rotties (and consequently considered applicable to most large and giant breeds) regarding osteosarcoma was only carried out recently and the findings published in 2009. In the not to distant future there may well be studies carried out and the findings may suggest leaving a bitch until she too is fully grown and mature. Who knows?

However in the case of male dogs I would not neuter them. This goes triple for large breeds. I'd certainly not neuter them before maturity, no way in hell. Again studies show few advantages and lots of disadvantages. The testicular cancer thing is a red herring for a start and nuetering increases the risk of prostate problems four fold, never mind muscular skeletal development issues, though if you were to read a few pro neutering pamphlets they'll claim the exact opposite. If preventing unwanted puppies is the issue then why not advocate vasectomies? That procedure would be significantly less invasive and traumatic than castration and would keep the hormonal levels right.

I presume a vesectomy isn't offered as it still gives the male dog opportunity to get aroused (and consequently distressed and over anxious) when in the company, or proximity of a bitch in heat? As with human vasectomies there's always a slight risk that it may fail so not foolproof like removing the testicles.
As with all dogs, there's reasons for and against. I've met a good few male dogs that should be neutered for various reasons. Then there's one I know getting the snip this week, but I think he's still too young (at 9 months) and hasn't shown any behavioural tendencies that would suggest he'd be too hard work to keep intact.

As for vets pushing this as an agenda? I don't buy it. Like any area vets will follow professional "fashion" and current memes. It's not a big conspiracy. Other examples of such memes are yearly vaccinations and the promotion of dog food in many surgeries. Yearly vaccinations are also backed up by pet insurance policies so once you have that you're stuck into current practice, yet even the least logical person must ask how a human can get to 80 years of age with maybe 5 - 10 vaccinations in life, yet your average dog that makes it to 12-14 could have 5 vaccinations per year of life. Does not compute. Not unless vet science exists in a parallel universe. Dog food another issue. While I'm no hardcore raw food faddist, again it takes little logic to ask why we are told feeding meat flavoured weetabix to an apex predator is anything approaching sensible, even preferable. The old saying "as fit as a butchers dog" has a lot of truth to it. I have actually had three vets tell me to my face that feeding dogs raw meat was a bad thing and raw bones were a disaster waiting to happen*.

There is an element of customer retention with all vets, it's a business at the end of the day.

As an aside I have to say I'm impressed by the subtle change on the forum. Not so long ago any suggestion that neutering may be questionable would be seen as irresponsible at best. Really good to see there is now an avenue to discuss both sides of the argument.

There will always be the 'I want to put my lovely looking dog out to stud' posts and 'how do I know my bitch is in heat to breed her' posts which are normally met with the spay/neuter replies and with good reason. (IMO). It's a fine line, the majority of posters on this forum are responsible pet owners that keep their dogs contained, have them well socialised and know the perils of breeding and that it's not a fast track to cash.

*That said I would exercise caution with bones. 1) contrary to what many raw food advocates will claim, wild canids don't generally eat raw bones until they're older and their dentition has fully formed(up to that point most of their food is predigested and prebroken down, cooked essentially, by the adults who regurgitate for the juveniles). 2) Dogs are not wild canids and the vast majority of dog breeds don't have the dentition, jaw strength nor the digestive strength of wild canids. So feeding a toy dog the same food as an adult wolf is clearly odd. 3 dogs like people can differ and some take to raw like fish to water while others don't.

tk123

Wibbs wrote: »

For me there are two strands to this. Neutering overall, yay or nay and neutering as a gender specific thing. Though I'm dead set against the blanket neutering mantra pushed by many, if I had a female dog I would neuter her. Study after study has shown that neutering does reduce the risk of various conditions and diseases. I'd do it before her first season too. The idea that letting them have a season is mumbo jumbo with no basis in science.

However in the case of male dogs I would not neuter them. This goes triple for large breeds. I'd certainly not neuter them before maturity, no way in hell.

My pup is 5 months this week and there is no way imo that she's old enough to be spayed and a month won't make a difference so we're going to hold off and let her have 1 heat to let her grow a bit more. My other guy had surgery to correct deformities from growth plates closing too early so not taking any chances with this one! (They're both retrievers)

boomerang

Equally, anti-neutering could be considered a fashion, a meme.

For most of us, the decision comes down to a gut feeling about what's right for our pet, rather than the hard science. That's wrong. Anyone in doubt should look very, very carefully at the evidence and not be led by popular opinion. Ask questions. Do the reading. Keep an open mind. And for god sake don't distrust your vet's intentions. Talk to them. Just reading through this thread, I see misinformation. And I'm open to both sides of the debate.

Dodd

My dog is not spayed.
It is only a matter of time where people will put to this..
China.?
If you have full control of where your dog is then why.

I may or may not breed my dog but if I have another dog I would like it to be part of the dog I have now.

Pretzill

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I thought it might be useful to get some feedback from those wih experience in keeping males/females who are still both intact. What tips do you have for keeing dogs apart when the females come into season?

I really don't want to get into the whole argument for and against spaying and neautering. This is for the people who want to keep their pets intact but who are not interested in breeding.

Rather then get in too deep with the debate...I take rescues and what I see in rescue places means I'm an advocate of both neutering and spaying.

However, I let my female go through her first heat after vets advice but was really anxious about other dogs, herself running off etc, and my local kennels offered to take her for the duration of her heat as they kept 'Eunnochs' males who had been neutered but still enjoyed the company of the female kind.

Although I didn't avail of their offer and just kept my girl in during her heat I thought it was a neat solution for those who didn't want to spay.

tk123

Pretzill wrote: »

Rather then get in too deep with the debate...I take rescues and what I see in rescue places means I'm an advocate of both neutering and spaying.

However, I let my female go through her first heat after vets advice but was really anxious about other dogs, herself running off etc, and my local kennels offered to take her for the duration of her heat as they kept 'Eunnochs' males who had been neutered but still enjoyed the company of the female kind.

Although I didn't avail of their offer and just kept my girl in during her heat I thought it was a neat solution for those who didn't want to spay.

?!?! Do you mean they'd take the female and then let the males tie with her? What about false pregnancies let alone hygene?

Wibbs

fatmammycat wrote: »

Anecdotally, I think dogs who are neutered very pre- six months, seem puppyish to me, a little skittish in some cases.

Mightn't be anecdotal. I read of a study that showed neutered males were more likely to be nervous and show fear based bad behaviour than intact dogs. Neutering will stop or seriously reduce roaming behavior, but that seems to be most of it. Neutering to control behaviour issues for my mind is the daftest idea of all, but one that is very deeply engrained in many.

I think frustrated, under exercised, unsocialised, territorial or frightened dogs have the capacity to be aggressive, intact or not. I think well trained, well exercised, social dogs are least likely to be aggressive, intact or not, and that's the message I would prefer to see being pushed.

+1000. I grew up in a time when neutering was much rarer than today. All our dogs were intact males, ditto for my mates dogs. Some were cool, some were right gits, but it was down to the owners in 90% of cases.

fatmammycat

Wibbs wrote: »

Mightn't be anecdotal. I read of a study that showed neutered males were more likely to be nervous and show fear based bad behaviour than intact dogs. Neutering will stop or seriously reduce roaming behavior, but that seems to be most of it. Neutering to control behaviour issues for my mind is the daftest idea of all, but one that is very deeply engrained in many.

+1000. I grew up in a time when neutering was much rarer than today. All our dogs were intact males, ditto for my mates dogs. Some were cool, some were right gits, but it was down to the owners in 90% of cases.

That's interesting, if you can locate that study I'd love to read it. My lad definitely went through phases where he was more anxious about things, 8/10 months seems to be a common fear period in GSDs, where they are 'feeling their oats' so to speak, but too immature to know what to do about that, so they bark and act out. Calm handling and being super consistent through this little period is an absolute must and then they come out the other side of it.
I wish I had known some of what I know now back when I had my rescue doberman, that poor dog was such a mess when I got him, and I -following my vets advice at the time- had him neutered at 8 months. I bet anything he might have got through his fears much easier if I had just let him develop fully.

borderlinemeath

Wibbs wrote: »

Mightn't be anecdotal. I read of a study that showed neutered males were more likely to be nervous and show fear based bad behaviour than intact dogs. Neutering will stop or seriously reduce roaming behavior, but that seems to be most of it. Neutering to control behaviour issues for my mind is the daftest idea of all, but one that is very deeply engrained in many.

Read of a study, or read a study? Do you have a link to it? I'd like to read it. From what I've read through posters here is that if the dog is already a bit skittish and lacks confidence then that neutering will underpin that behaviour rather than make them 'more likely to be nervous.'

The main behaviour problem that I encounter with intact males is intact male aggression. The dogs that I've had here that display such behaviours (here and out on walks) have no problems whatsoever dealing with neutered males and any females, in fact they positively thrive in the company of most dogs, but give them a whiff of testosterone and all hell can break loose. So while you might think that linking behaviours to keeping dogs intact is 'the daftest idea of all', I can assure you it can be a very real problem. Although I do think a lot of people are misinformed that if a dog displays general aggression towards other dogs that neutering will solve the problem.

+1000. I grew up in a time when neutering was much rarer than today. All our dogs were intact males, ditto for my mates dogs. Some were cool, some were right gits, but it was down to the owners in 90% of cases.

It's very easy to put 'back in the day' rose tinted glasses on. None of the dogs in my home that I grew up with in the 70s/80s or encountered out and about were neutered either. But we also didn't have the purposeful breeding of dogs to the extent there is now. Dogs didn't have many of the nervous/skittish/submissive/aggressive behaviours that we see now because there wasn't a concerted effort put into breeding/interbreeding/crossbreeding for money, and these behavioural traits are now bred into dogs by byb/puppy farmers without a care for the dogs health and welfare. Most of the dogs we had at home came from accidental litters, the neighbours dogs got at each others dogs etc, and you were given the pup to take off their hands, none of this selling 'collietriever' pups, you would be handed a mongrel. It was a rarity to see pedigree dogs back then, and one of the stick out memories from my youth was witnessing the local chemists kerry blue savage my terrier cross.

StompToWork

OP, I don't think there is really any easy way to do what you are wanting without having physically separate areas for the dog and bitch on heat. Having never had more than one dog at any time, let alone male and female together, I cannot offer any practical advice.

I did just want to say, however, that this thread is the perfect example of why Boards.ie is sooooo the wrong place to bring up anything with even the smallest amount of potential controversy, even if you are as clear as you were in your OP about why you were starting the thread. Even the intervention by DBB didn't really stem the flow of snide, "are you crazy" comments.

You might be better heading for a dedicated forum such as www.dogfourms.com. You may not get answers as quickly as you would here, but they would no doubt be of better quality than what you get here.

andreac

I have 2 dogs, male and female, neither of which are spayed or neutered as i show them.

It is an absolute nightmare when the female is in season as my boy is a stud dog so knows exactly whats going on and what he wants to do when shes in season.
So for that very reason, im lucky i can send the female off to my mams for the week or two that shes full in season.

I couldnt leave them in the same area, let alone same household when shes in season as he goes absolutely mental.

Pretzill

tk123 wrote: »

?!?! Do you mean they'd take the female and then let the males tie with her? What about false pregnancies let alone hygene?

No that's not what I mean. I mean that during her stay she wouldn't be exercised/allowed or in contact with any dogs - and the hygiene aspect - well I would expect any kennels to have high hygiene standards and all dogs to have shots etc. Sorry I can see where you got that from the way I said it

angelfire9

Father in law breeds terriers they are Glen of Immal he's been doing it for donkeys years and like andreac when bitch is in heat she goes on holidays to the brother in law who lives in the back of beyond (used to be his brothers house before he died so this has always been his system
Despite BIL's house being half way up a mountain where there are no neighbours he always gets at least two dogs up for a visit when the bitch is in residence

muddypaws

Spaying and neutering aren't automatically a solution, all of my dogs are done, but one of them still had false seasons, which led to one of my neutered males tieing with her and splitting his penis open, cue emergency dash to the vet, after a very interesting phone call.

Knine

I always manage by just keeping them apart, stud dogs here too. Also a neutered male who will also have a go if he gets the chance. Have to be very careful with the males so that they do not fight with each other when a bitch is in heat.

The male will sometimes go off his food too.

SillyMangoX

I am very much for keeping dogs intact if you can manage them completely, but if there is any hint of a possibility that you wont be able to control your dog then the best option would be to neuter. I mean there are hundreds of people who show dogs and they would not end up with surprise litters despite having intact dogs. But just to throw a small tangent into this I think that cats should 100% be neutered as young as possible. And I say this as someone who goes to cat shows and sees intact cats. Luckily in the cat show world neuters have their own classes and can do just as well as their intact comrades. I could never keep an intact cat again, but would definitely wait before altering a dog, if I were to do it at all!