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Walltite

  • 19-10-2013 3:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 13


    Hi all, planning an extension on the house and looking into different insulation and came across walltite a spray foam that they can fill cavitys with, never seen it before. Has anyone used it?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    is it certified?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 LennyandMo


    Don't know will have to have another look at there website,i saw it advertised in selfbuild and improve magazine


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭dathi


    it has a BBA cert


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    dathi wrote: »
    it has a BBA cert

    Link please


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Link please

    11/4816 is the BBA cert number


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    OP, I don't see anything in the certificate which approves cavity fill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 LennyandMo


    Certificate pending is what it says on the masonary cavity walls, seem to have it for the other applications.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    LennyandMo wrote: »
    Certificate pending is what it says on the masonary cavity walls, seem to have it for the other applications.

    Not worth the paper its written on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    LennyandMo wrote: »
    Certificate pending is what it says on the masonary cavity walls, seem to have it for the other applications.

    Cert pending translates to NO CERT


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭dathi


    http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/CertificateFiles/50/5002PS1i1.pdf basf walltite cv 100 cavity wall insulation agg cert 13/5002 you should try google mick


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    I got a price this week for the BASF Walltite insulation. Has anybody had it done & how much did you pay per m2.
    I got a price of €24 + vat per m2 so it's working out at €6,000 to do the house.

    I spoke to somebody I know who had it installed & they love it but only done this summer. They reckon the air tightness of the house has improved dramatically.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 338 ✭✭Crazy Eye


    i have some sort of insulation board in the cavity walls of my house , but i still get cold draughts on a breezy day or a cold night . id like to have a warmer less draught house . whats the story with any dampness or mold problems if you fill a cavity wall with that basf foam above or any of the bio foam spray foam ?
    ive seen lots of ads on done deal and youtube videos of it being injected into cavity walls . is it safe to do this ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    Crazy Eye wrote: »
    i have some sort of insulation board in the cavity walls of my house , but i still get cold draughts on a breezy day or a cold night . id like to have a warmer less draught house . whats the story with any dampness or mold problems if you fill a cavity wall with that basf foam above or any of the bio foam spray foam ?
    ive seen lots of ads on done deal and youtube videos of it being injected into cavity walls . is it safe to do this ?

    speak to the manufacture and get them to provide the certs with their advice

    you have one chance at getting this right


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 teddyirl


    Anyone out there go with Walltite in cavity wall insulation and recommend a contractor on DM?

    Did they see noticeable difference in avg room temp increase
    Did they have issues with plaster cracking in the install
    Any issues with condensation on internal walls after

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    I used it - we had an old house I was renovating. We only had a 3 inch cavity - so got it all pumped and some additional insulation inside.

    To answer your questions:
    Did they see noticeable difference in avg room temp increase
    Massive - but we were going from no insulation. The airtightness aspect is another benefit. Seals around all windows, etc.

    Did they have issues with plaster cracking in the install
    No. A couple of little spurts out around windows/doors where the plastering wasn't great. But only get it done when plaster is well dried out.

    Any issues with condensation on internal walls after
    No.

    I would only go with a certified installer as you do need to know what you are doing. I have heard of horror stories where a 6 inch cavity was filled by some chancers who never used it before. the wall busted out due to the pressure.

    Mine was done by an installer from Roscommon. Google Walltite Roscommon and you should find them. PM me if you don't, or have any other questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 Stan the man the gaffer


    Hi all some great information put up. I am also completing a house and am thinking of putting the Walltite insulation in the cavity but am afraid of cracks or damaged walls. I have been warned by other insulation companies that it is very dangerous and to stay away from it but I'm hoping that was just their marketing/selling pitch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    Hi all some great information put up. I am also completing a house and am thinking of putting the Walltite insulation in the cavity but am afraid of cracks or damaged walls. I have been warned by other insulation companies that it is very dangerous and to stay away from it but I'm hoping that was just their marketing/selling pitch.

    If installed by someone incompetent- I’m sure this would be the case. In my situation - it was an old house with existing plaster. I didn’t notice any cracks.

    However, I will call out that when it is installed at first, it flows in very hot. So much so that the blocks are warm to the touch. I would recommend that you get this done before plastering inside or out. I could see how a freshly plastered house may not appreciate the rapid change in temperature.


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    Hi all some great information put up. I am also completing a house and am thinking of putting the Walltite insulation in the cavity but am afraid of cracks or damaged walls. I have been warned by other insulation companies that it is very dangerous and to stay away from it but I'm hoping that was just their marketing/selling pitch.

    Based on your other post - just double check they are a certified installer with BASF for Walltite. Also - ask to see some of their work. I did that and learnt a lot. If they say no, or can’t come up with any references - it tells a lot


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 oconnb3


    Hi lads, good info there also interested in installing walltite in the cavity, 100mm cavity with 60mm aeroboard, wondering how you got on with it after one year?, built the dormer in 2000... changed the windows, put in Demand control ventilation and spray foam the attic area, got airtightness down from 7.5 m3/hr/m2 to 4.5 m3/hr/m2, looking to Walltite to finish it off.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    I'm planning to get the same done in my mothers house - similar to yours; early 2000s dormer, partial fill cavity. But her windows probably need to be changed first. It forms a really good seal around the window frames.

    We moved in about 3.5 years ago now (house was sprayed probably around 2016) and haven't had any issues at all. I done all cavity and sprayed the internal of a cavity block extension.

    The only antidotal info I have heard when installing it into a partial fill cavity - apparently you hear the insulation boards popping when they are pushed back against the inner leaf (presuming they weren't where they were supposed to be).

    Worth also checking if your cavity is closed in the roof, if not - the foam may overflow slightly. but at least you will be able to tell if it has been fully filled.

    I'm not sure how it reacts with other plastics when curing, so I was careful to protect all extruding cables for lights, etc. with a bit of conduit.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13 oconnb3


    thanks for reply Tedimc, built the house ourselves so know where every block and cable are. Best of look with your mam's house,we are getting great benefit from the ventilation quiet easy to install yourself if diy minded i had natural ventilation (4" holes in the walls") before i put in Demand Control ventilation..... extraction ducts in bathroom, kitchen, utility room and humidity controlled inlets placed in the 4" holes.... how long did it take to install WALLTITE....?


  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    oconnb3 wrote: »
    thanks for reply Tedimc, built the house ourselves so know where every block and cable are. Best of look with your mam's house,we are getting great benefit from the ventilation quiet easy to install yourself if diy minded i had natural ventilation (4" holes in the walls") before i put in Demand Control ventilation..... extraction ducts in bathroom, kitchen, utility room and humidity controlled inlets placed in the 4" holes.... how long did it take to install WALLTITE....?

    Yeah, I must look into the ventilation. Not an issue at the moment as there is too much ventilation 😊

    For our house - it’s a bungalow, circa 3.5k square feet. It took about two days. But I got ours drilled and filled from inside as I was drylining and plastering anyway. It does require a lot of holes, as the foam needs to be filled slowly. If done from the outside, I’d say it could have been done a lot quicker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 oconnb3


    cheers, i'm in Cork, i was in contact with a contractor from up the country might be the lad that did your house could u PM me the contractor that did your house


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 larrymc123


    Hi Tedimc,

    Some great feedback/input from you on above thread. Just wondering if you went ahead with Walltite in you mothers house?

    I have an existing 1983 built 300mm cavity:

    • 100mm outer leaf brickwork
    • 100mm cavity with approx. 50 polystyrene insulation (installed when built) with remainder of cavity pumped with EPS beads more recently.
    • 100mm inner leaf blockwork, with sand/cement skim internally

    I am carrying out a fairly deep retrofit on my own 1983 built house and strongly considering extracting EPS beads and pumping in Walltite. Feedback is that it is unbeatable in regards to airtightness test results.

    But I am still a little hesitant on pulling the trigger on it as it well noted that there is potential risk with cracking (when product cures and contracts and potentially pulls masonry inwards).



  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    Hi @larrymc123 ,

    Not yet, she wanted to get the house painted a few years back and is waiting until it needs another paint job 😯

    The cavity is only partially filled on her house, so I think walltite makes sense - but as yours is already full, you would need to be careful if the decrease in U value is worth the cost. It may not be. Especially if you don't have any condensation issues under windows or the wall plate. It would definitely help with airtightness. However - just to ask; any plans to replace windows/doors in the future? I would wait till then if so. As the foam would stick to the frames, you would lose a lot of the air tightness benefits when replacing them. Thats a consideration for my mothers place too, she's looking at a new front door, etc.

    Cracking is definitely a concern, but I never heard of it pulling masonry inward. Only the opposite, if a cavity is overfilled, the foam can expand and blow out a wall. Apparently it's quite a risk on new houses, with empty cavity and 150mm+ cavities. That is where you need to be careful who installs it for you.

    Another thought on your case, I presume around windows, services. etc. is where you are looking for better airtightness. I presume these are the areas that are most difficult to remove the existing insulation bead from (is it loose bead or glued?) - therefore would you be guaranteed the walltite would get in around where you need it most? You'd need to get some reassurances from your contractor on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 larrymc123


    @tedimc thanks for detailed response.

    So my scenario:

    I am carrying out fairly extensive works to 1983 built family home. House is approx. 375 sqm. Main house is about 300 sqm with the remaining 75 sqm an adjoining "Granny flat" that was renovated to modern standards in 2018 (so no work to this area planned).

    Retrofit works on main house include:

    • Removing existing suspended timber ground floor and replacing with solid/insulated build-up for UFH.
    • All existing windows/doors (mix of old timber frame and newer pvc) to be removed and replaced. (small extension out the back and some window opes are increasing in size)
    • Some re wiring/replumbing
    • Energy upgrades Heat Pump/UFH, Demand Control Ventilation - so vastly improved airtightness required

    Current Cavity Wall

    300mm cavity wall, outer leaf a lovely red brick, 100mm cavity is approx. 50mm polystyrene and remainder pumped EPS beads, inner leaf blockwork with sand/cement render internally.

    Airtightness/Insulation Works

    The current/previous proposal is to install 62.5mm insulated plasterboard internally on all external perimeter walls. And to do it right, I would be removing/exposing section of the ceiling (around full perimeter) to get in around floor joists to ensure these are made as airtight/insulated as possible (as I see this a real weak point).

    The existing house is so well built/maintained. Some of the rooms have fantastic originally installed ornate cornice/covings and ceilings are in perfect condition. And upstairs most of the rooms require no other work other than replacing windows and maybe new flooring.

    So internally lining is going to be massively invasive/disruptive (even considering I am gutting downstairs ground floor) and labour intensive/time consuming when you account for all the follow-on works that will need to happen.

    So even allowing for requirement to remove EPS beads, WALLTITE option is still very attractive to me (from Performance i.e. airtightness, Cost, and Programme perspective).

    Existing EPS Beads

    Personally I don't hold any faith in the EPS Cavity Bead Pumping. I am continually finding beads all over the garden and I would seriously question how well it got in to every nook and cranny of the cavity (interested to see what it was like once windows/doors are removed). So I don't really have any hesitations about removing it if I am to go with WALLTITE option. Key here will be ensuring it is all properly extracted, however I feel that as I am removing doors/windows on 3 out of 4 elevations I will have better opportunity than most to check this.

    WALLTITE Risks (Happy to hear from anyone who thinks I have missed something)

    Cracking: As noted by @tedimc above apparently (cracking) is quite a risk on new houses, with empty cavity and 150mm+ cavities. (I guess the deeper the cavity, the more material required and the more potential for expansion/contraction, especially if filled too quickly/incorrectly). From my research (including discussions with WALLTITE installer) the more likely cause of cracking in most instances is actually due to contraction rather than expansion. The Walltite insulation bonds to the masonry, and when it cures it contracts and can pull the wall inwards with it. My outer leaf is a lovely red brick and I dread the thought of doing any damage to it (and the cost to repair!). I have been told that having existing cavity board insulation is actually a benefit to mitigate this (as WALLTITE, for most part won't bond to the inner masonry leaf).

    Installation: With any retrofitting works to a cavity you really are "working blind" for the most part, so you are completely dependent on a good/competent contractor. I'll be dependent on this twice, once for EPS Extraction (to ensure cavity is fully emptied/clean) and again for WALLTITE install. The risk here is that EPS removal/WALLTITE install isn't perfect and I don't end up with an airtight envelope, and I regret not insulating walls internally.

    I am very conscious that pumping the walls with an injected foam insulation is a very permanent solution. If for some reason it goes disastrously wrong, or there are some unforeseen consequences in the future, the rectification would be extreme/costly (fully removing outer brick leaf?)

    I feel like I have a couple of things going in my favor. Firstly, as I am removing windows/doors on 3 out of 4 elevations I will get far better access to extract EPS and check conditions of cavities. I also plan on pumping WALLTITE prior to installing new Windows/Doors. This way I will get to keep an eye on install of this also. I also do have a fear, whether it be expansion or contraction, of the WALLTITE putting pressure/warping new windows. Secondly, as I have an external brick leaf, I will have no issue with taking out a number of brick to get better access if required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    A couple of thoughts from me (sorry unable to multi-quote for some reason):

    300mm cavity wall, outer leaf a lovely red brick, 100mm cavity is approx. 50mm polystyrene and remainder pumped EPS beads, inner leaf blockwork with sand/cement render internally.

    Are you planning to/able to remove the polystyrene board? I would suspect that 50mm walltite is far superior to 50mm polystyrene U value wise. So if you could fill the full 100mm cavity with walltite you would be better off.


    The current/previous proposal is to install 62.5mm insulated plasterboard internally on all external perimeter walls. And to do it right, I would be removing/exposing section of the ceiling (around full perimeter) to get in around floor joists to ensure these are made as airtight/insulated as possible (as I see this a real weak point).

    I done this in my house and I'm not a fan. My cavity was on 75mm in total, so added internal insulation to bring up the U value. I actually bought floor insulation and boarded the walls myself, filling any small gaps with expanding foam and taped over the joints with aluminum tape. Then got the walls plaster boarded as normal. Worked out cheaper materials wise, but for me it was more around insuring a better job. BUT - internal plasterboard is a disaster when it comes to things like sockets, hanging curtain rails, shelfs, etc.


    My outer leaf is a lovely red brick and I dread the thought of doing any damage to it (and the cost to repair!). 

    This might actually help you hear, as I presume a brick external leave allows for slightly more expansion and contracton than plaster or render.


    I am very conscious that pumping the walls with an injected foam insulation is a very permanent solution. If for some reason it goes disastrously wrong, or there are some unforeseen consequences in the future, the rectification would be extreme/costly (fully removing outer brick leaf?)

    Possibly - but I can't foresee a scenario where this would be required?


     Firstly, as I am removing windows/doors on 3 out of 4 elevations I will get far better access to extract EPS and check conditions of cavities. I also plan on pumping WALLTITE prior to installing new Windows/Doors.

    I would advise against this. Around openings is one of the big culprits for air leakage - if you pump after the windows, doors go in - your pretty much guaranteed a good seal fully around the window. This has its down-sides - you often get little shots of the foam shooting out from any week points in the plaster. So, cover your windows and reinforce any week points. As far as finding any gaps - I'm not sure it is really needed, but from what I seen:

    The wall is warm to the touch when the foam is curing, so a thermal camera would quickly find any cold spots.

    The foam install uses far more, but small holes to fill the cavity. The installer will usually check each hole to ensure it has been filled.

    As the foam goes in almost like liquid, you are unlikley to get any gaps. Ensure the installer drills close to bottom/sides and tops of window openings and you'll be guaranteed that there is a good seal. I'd also see if you can check the cavity from the top around the wall plate to ensure the cavity has filled to the top as much as possible



  • Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭tedimc


    Also one other thing I see mentioned on other threads is around the walltite cracking the masonry.

    As I understand it; yes walltite could bust your wall right out if installed incorrectly (i.e. too much, too fast).

    It can also cause cracking in your plaster, especially in a newly plastered house. I was told that is is largely due to the heat generated by curing and that it can dry the plaster out too quickly. Far less of a concern for an older house where the plaster would be already dried out. Others would know better, but plaster can take many months to dry fully I believe. I didn't notice any new cracking in my house after the install - but the heat given off was savage, and lasted for a few days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭247music


    So I'm told by a local insulation company that my house won't qualify for the insulation grant as it is 100% brick on the external leaf.. fine says I, I'll just cover it myself.. but then worrying as to why it would not be covered by the grant and is there a higher risk of water ingress across bead in a brick house etc etc.. So this Walltite sounds very interesting.. even with the horror stories of exploding walls!! Would someone who has had this done successfully mind passing on the details of the contractor they used by PM please? Thanks!



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