eBay have issued a full refund against me. Tricky story

bombidol

A few weeks back I sold a VERY rare 7" record on eBay. It was sold as excellent to near mint and unplayed even though it was 42 years old. Being a record collector myself I know vinyl well and would never sell anything dodgey or suspect in anyway.
Anyway, the record sold for 680 Dollars to a buyer in Sweden. There were a few hiccups with the payment being received as I have not sold on eBay in quite some time. However I shipped the item with tracking number before payment cleared as a gesture of good faith.
A week later I got a message from the buyer saying that they were not happy with the condition of the record, stating that there were scratches and it did not play well
He wanted a full refund if he returned the record. He opened a case with ebay and we went back and forth. I explained that a refund wouldnt be an option as to me it sounded like nonsense as the item was in perfect condition when I sent it, his case sounded like buyers remorse AND HE HAD CHANGED THE CONDITION OF THE ITEM.
If I issued a refund for the record, what I got back in return would not be in the same condition. In the world of rare vinyl (only 50 of these exist) played and unplayed is a massive thing.
For one, anyone paying that amount for a record would NEVER play a record that rare. Its the crown jewel of a collection, not a playing record.

Anyway, I woke this morning to a mail from eBay stating that they have opted in favour of the buyer and he will be returning the record, after which I must issue a full refund.

I am sickened by this action. I understand that most times any site will lean in favour of the buyer but I was not contacted by eBay during the process. I simply got an email saying that I now have to pay to have an item returned to me in the condition it was not sent in.

I dont know what to do, or who to contact. I tell you this though, once this process is done I will be deleting my eBay account and I will NEVER use it again.

ted1

bombidol wrote: »

A few weeks back I sold a VERY rare 7" record on eBay. It was sold as excellent to near mint and unplayed even though it was 42 years old. Being a record collector myself I know vinyl well and would never sell anything dodgey or suspect in anyway.
Anyway, the record sold for 680 Dollars to a buyer in Sweden. There were a few hiccups with the payment being received as I have not sold on eBay in quite some time. However I shipped the item with tracking number before payment cleared as a gesture of good faith.
A week later I got a message from the buyer saying that they were not happy with the condition of the record, stating that there were scratches and it did not play well
He wanted a full refund if he returned the record. He opened a case with ebay and we went back and forth. I explained that a refund wouldnt be an option as to me it sounded like nonsense as the item was in perfect condition when I sent it, his case sounded like buyers remorse AND HE HAD CHANGED THE CONDITION OF THE ITEM.
If I issued a refund for the record, what I got back in return would not be in the same condition. In the world of rare vinyl (only 50 of these exist) played and unplayed is a massive thing.
For one, anyone paying that amount for a record would NEVER play a record that rare. Its the crown jewel of a collection, not a playing record.

Anyway, I woke this morning to a mail from eBay stating that they have opted in favour of the buyer and he will be returning the record, after which I must issue a full refund.

I am sickened by this action. I understand that most times any site will lean in favour of the buyer but I was not contacted by eBay during the process. I simply got an email saying that I now have to pay to have an item returned to me in the condition it was not sent in.

I dont know what to do, or who to contact. I tell you this though, once this process is done I will be deleting my eBay account and I will NEVER use it again.

When you get the record back and if its not in the same condition you should try taking ebay to the small claims court.

Caroleia

I am sorry but ime eBay will always find in favour of the buyer. A buyer once pulled out of my auction citing that I had changed the item description. I didn't mind losing the business but it would have put potential buyers off also. Needless to say I hadn't changed anything and this would have been easy checked by them. Instead they advised me to engage a solicitor! So they were complicit In allowing the potential buyer to defame me. This is an awful situation for you

cotswolds

Well now you realise the power of the large company. I hope you do vote with your feet and close your account.

Pity more people don't do the same when they are unhappy with the service they receive.

Caroleia

I gritted my teeth and kept my account as I didn't want to lose my feedback built up over several years. I hardly use it now. I use donedeal a lot love the simplicity of it. It's not great for everything though Sometmes eBay is the only option to reach a specialised market. I have heard of people putting a security mark on high end items in case of dodgy returns. Not sure what they use to do it though.

bombidol

NEVER again will I use their service. I didnt want to list it on eBay but the market just isnt there for these items in Ireland.
Now im out of pocket as I already spent the money when it arrived as the item I shipped was exactly as advertised.

Caroleia

bombidol wrote: »

NEVER again will I use their service. I didnt want to list it on eBay but the market just isnt there for these items in Ireland.
Now im out of pocket as I already spent the money when it arrived as the item I shipped was exactly as advertised.

It's a horrible experience I don't blame you

bombidol

They are asking me to be complicit in my own robbery!

cotswolds

Think of the volume of complaints they must deal with. How can they employ enough people to investigate properly and make the CORRECT decision.

There will always be fall out but all the more reason not to use them.

bombidol

its not my problem that they dont have enough staff to do the job properly. It is however my problem that they have ****ed up and left me with the short end of the stick and no means to rectify the situation. They will issue the refund via paypal then tell me to pay them back.
If I didnt use Paypal regularly I would consider closing the account and telling the to shove it up their holes. But by the way ive been treated I would most likely end up in court with them.

YbFocus

So sorry Bombidol, sounds like an awful position to end up in, there is no other course of action that can be taken after this no?

Caroleia

eBay own paypal so you prob would not get far ! The small claims court is a good idea..

cotswolds

bombidol wrote: »

its not my problem that they dont have enough staff to do the job properly. It is however my problem that they have ****ed up and left me with the short end of the stick and no means to rectify the situation. They will issue the refund via paypal then tell me to pay them back.
If I didnt use Paypal regularly I would consider closing the account and telling the to shove it up their holes. But by the way ive been treated I would most likely end up in court with them.

I'm in agreement with you. I was just pointing out how and why they probably make so many poor decisions.

They are after one thing only and if they lose a few customers along the way then they won't be too bothered.

Like I said - I really hope you do close your account as I think more people should.

The also own paypal by the way.

fl4pj4ck

withdraw the money and show them the finger

kerry4sam

@Bombidol,

I am sorry to read about the outcome of this for you. An an outsider, can I just ask:
~ Did you explain in your advert ALL the detail in your opening post here about it's personal value not being played before or at all even?

From another perspective, if all that detail were not included, a person bought a vinyl to presumably play as one normally would with vinyls. You said it was never played before so with them saying "It does not play well", gives you no leg to stand on as you cannot dispute it after saying it was "unplayed" before sending.

Horribly situation for you to be in. I can however see where the decision was made by ebay in this instance and the buyer in this situation certainly does not sound like a vinyl enthusiast like yourself (presumably bought the rare item as a gift for someone & checked it played okay before giving).

I am just posting as a outsider here from another perspective

bombidol

eBay ad stated unplayed and graded between excellent and near mint. Stored in vinyl hard case for 42 years. Pressed and printed in Dublin city by Decca records and is the rare (50 copies) version with misprint. Having done some research on the buyer it looks like they deal in vinyl a lot. The big thing here was the cover itself. The record has popped up on eBay before and has gone for a few quid, not as much as my copy. But the ones that sold didn't have the cover, which was immaculate.
The magazine Record collector even contacted me saying how rare the vinyl was and should fetch a pretty penny.
This dude, and eBay, have robbed me. Outright. They may as well have come into my house and just taken stuff.

fl4pj4ck

is there a chance that he swapped an unplayed one with a cheap played one he already had?

johndoe99

whenever i send anything in post, i always take a photo with time-stamp, so if returned in a different condition i'd have some proof of its sent condition.

eBay... i use it now and then when i cannot get something in the usual online shops, but it has more downs than ups. Just wait and see, hopefully the vinyl will come back in same condition as sent.

y0ssar1an22

if sent by registered post does this not also include insurance? maybe they damaged it and you can seek some compensation from them?

bombidol

It was insured for the max allowed via an post (150€) for damaged in transit/failure to deliver.

Miike

kerry4sam wrote: »

@Bombidol,


From another perspective, if all that detail were not included, a person bought a vinyl to presumably play as one normally would with vinyls. You said it was never played before so with them saying "It does not play well", gives you no leg to stand on as you cannot dispute it after saying it was "unplayed" before sending.

Horribly situation for you to be in. I can however see where the decision was made by ebay in this instance and the buyer in this situation certainly does not sound like a vinyl enthusiast like yourself (presumably bought the rare item as a gift for someone & checked it played okay before giving).

Particularly the text on bold is key here. Did the ad on ebay state the record was a (A) unopened, unused rare item and (B) a collection piece.

If the record was then opened by the buyer wouldn't that render the records value / state altered and so nonreturnable?

I'd pursue this legally if ebay are unwilling to be reasonable based on the facts at hand.

Mr E

It'll be interesting to see what sort of condition you get it back in.

Horrible situation to be in, though.

bombidol

The fact that he played it isn't really the issue. The fact that he played it and wants to return it to me is. The record wasn't sealed as records weren't sold sealed 42 years ago. In a message to me he said that I was talking bullsh:t about it being unplayed. And that one of the tracks had distortion on it.
I replied saying that the item has been in my possession unplayed and that in my experience and knowledge of vinyl the item is unused as there is zero wear on it. And that an item like this isn't really supposed to be played. It's not like a DVD or CD where playing it does no damage. Playing records damages them and that's the bottom line. A collector would store this in a safe or a display case.

Nody

Mr E wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see what sort of condition you get it back in.

Horrible situation to be in, though.

I'd bet a different LP will come back (i.e. not one of the limited edition once but the normal print).

y0ssar1an22

Nody wrote: »

I'd bet a different LP will come back (i.e. not one of the limited edition once but the normal print).

would there not be a serial number on it?

bombidol

The one i sent has a misprint on the centre so ill know it when it comes. My question is this, if it arrives back in different condition what are my options?
And how did eBay come to this conclusion without contacting me. I was not asked for my input at any stage of the official process.

y0ssar1an22

bombidol wrote: »

The one i sent has a misprint on the centre so ill know it when it comes. My question is this, if it arrives back in different condition what are my options?
And how did eBay come to this conclusion without contacting me. I was not asked for my input at any stage of the official process.

2 possibilities:

1. recipient damaged it, and ebay will likely take their side
2. post damaged it and you can seek compensation

in either case you might be able to start your own legal proceedings/solicitors letter, claiming your rare item has been completely devalued.

do you have photos of before you posted it?

bombidol

I have some photos but nothing that shows the item that close to make out marks / lack of marks. Vinyl is difficult to take photos of as the flash blanks it and without flash, detail can't really be made out.

littleredspot

I know a little about vinyl and it certainly is visibly noticeable if something is unplayed or played very few times. Seeming as you have never heard the record, is it possible that the recording was sub-par and when the buyer played it it simply sounded exactly as it was the day it was pressed? And he is mistaking the poor quality recording for damage?

Seperately, I was clearly scammed by a buyer before on eBay, it was blatently obvious to anyone who looked at the case. EBay judged in his favour because I couldn't prove it. They refunded him his money.
Around about the same time I lost my cc so had to get it replaced. EBay only had details of my old one. I've been using both eBay and Paypal since and have never heard anymore about the couple of hundred quid I "owe" them.

bombidol

They have taken the "funds" from my PayPal account. It's now negative a couple of hundred quid. Will it stay like that or can they reach into my bricks and mortar bank account and take the money?
I'm leaning towards the "fvck them" route and deleting my PayPal account and leave them singing for their money.
When the record is received ill sell it again based on the quality I get it in.

Mycroft H

Have you a bank account linked into the paypal ac?