BTEA Not Yet Approved

Engine No.9

I just started in first year of a 4 year degree program and as I was unemployed for 2 and a half years beforehand, I applied for the back to education allowance. I was applying for part time jobs the whole time and recently secured one which I start this Saturday. Thing is, I know that having a part time job doesn't affect my entitlement to BTEA, but it has not yet been approved so I am still in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance. I just would like to know if I am obliged to let the Department know that I now have a P/T job while I am awaiting a decision on the BTEA, but as the decision is imminent, should I just leave it off.

another question

pajopearl wrote: »

I just started in first year of a 4 year degree program and as I was unemployed for 2 and a half years beforehand, I applied for the back to education allowance. I was applying for part time jobs the whole time and recently secured one which I start this Saturday. Thing is, I know that having a part time job doesn't affect my entitlement to BTEA, but it has not yet been approved so I am still in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance. I just would like to know if I am obliged to let the Department know that I now have a P/T job while I am awaiting a decision on the BTEA, but as the decision is imminent, should I just leave it off.

Probably not the best advice but I'd say nothing if I were you.

Especially if the decision is imminent. I claim JA and work part-time. When I started working part-time it was such a headache. I had to have my income means tested and for several weeks my payment got messed up and then once it was sorted they called me back in because I was living at home and means tested my parents income, got my fathers pension contributions wrong and I had to go through it for weeks until it was sorted.

As you know you can work part-time without it effecting your BTEA so to me at this stage it's not worth the hassle.

You couldn't by any chance ask your new employer to hold off until you get your decision - that would keep you out of bother. Even just a week or two.

another question

Also out of interest, how many hours/days per week are you working part-time now?

Engine No.9

I've no idea yet. As I said, I'm not starting till this Saturday and they know I'm available evenings and weekends so it's quite likely I could be getting 30 hrs a week but I'd say not more than 20 realistically.

another question

pajopearl wrote: »

I've no idea yet. As I said, I'm not starting till this Saturday and they know I'm available evenings and weekends so it's quite likely I could be getting 30 hrs a week but I'd say not more than 20 realistically.

You see it's tricky because if you work more than 3 days in every 7 you forfeit your right to JA and if you have income from 20-30 hours work that would significantly reduce your amount of JA.

Have you chased up your BTEA decision, have they given you any indication of how long more - 1 week, 2 etc

another question

Do you know if you are going to get paid weekly from your new job? Because if you are, you could always put aside the Dole you receive starting next week and then if they make an issue of the fact that you started work and didn't inform them they you can offer to give it back and they won't pursue you I'd say given your circumstances (waiting on BTEA decision)

Engine No.9

another question wrote: »

Have you chased up your BTEA decision, have they given you any indication of how long more - 1 week, 2 etc

I rang them last week coz I was supposed to sign on and forgot about it as I had class. They told me they wouldn't even have looked at it yet as it was only submitted 3 weeks ago (although they did acknowledge receipt). It was only submitted late because there was an issue with the reg letter from the college as I deferred last year and seemingly I was in second year but simultaneously in first year. Got that sorted and they have it now.

Engine No.9

another question wrote: »

Do you know if you are going to get paid weekly from your new job? Because if you are, you could always put aside the Dole you receive starting next week and then if they make an issue of the fact that you started work and didn't inform them they you can offer to give it back and they won't pursue you I'd say given your circumstances (waiting on BTEA decision)

But if I did that wouldn't they only only give it back to me in backdated BTEA payments?

another question

pajopearl wrote: »

I rang them last week coz I was supposed to sign on and forgot about it as I had class. They told me they wouldn't even have looked at it yet as it was only submitted 3 weeks ago (although they did acknowledge receipt). It was only submitted late because there was an issue with the reg letter from the college as I deferred last year and seemingly I was in second year but simultaneously in first year. Got that sorted and they have it now.

Before you do anything, I'd ring them again and ask them could they give you some idea or an estimated wait because realistically IMO if it's going to take another 3-4 weeks then I think you will have to tell the welfare office.

another question

pajopearl wrote: »

But if I did that wouldn't they only only give it back to me in backdated BTEA payments?

But the BTEA payment is a different payment, if they back-dated it's because of the processing time. I could be wrong but they won't back-date BTEA to people already in receipt of JA - then they would be paid twice wouldn't they?

Hopefully someone else will comment here too.

mystic

If you were fully unemployed before starting your course, then the part-time job now will not affect your BTEA payment. You should get the maximum payment, depending on your age.

However, if a person was claiming Casual Jobseekers Allowance (working up to 3 days a week) and starting BTEA this academic year, they may get a reduced amount of BTEA. The 8 weeks before starting the course are looked at and a reduced rate calculated.

This is a new change. It was brought in this year after last year's budget.

Hope this helps.

mystic

Another point re. payments.

When a BTEA allowance is awarded it's usually backdated to the registration date or the date the course actually starts). As there can be a delay with sending in paperwork, etc., Jobseekers Allowance (or other qualifying payment) continues to be paid so that the person is not left without money.

For example, if you started college on 16 September, the SW system will have your JA claim closed and your BTEA officially starting from that date, even though you may not have officially transferred over yet.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse!

Sephiroth_dude

Got a letter saying i was approved in augest,Still havent been tranferred over yet,still getting jsa,rang them on 20th of september,assured me everything was grand,I dunno what to do.

mystic

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Got a letter saying i was approved in augest,Still havent been tranferred over yet,still getting jsa,rang them on 20th of september,assured me everything was grand,I dunno what to do.

You don't have to do anything. Your payment will transfer over. The only hassle you may have is that your payment will still be paid into your designated Post Office which may be difficult for you to get to because of the location of the college. You could always get your payment transferred to a more convenient Post Office until your BTEA gets sorted. You can call or e-mail your local office and they should be able to sort it for you.

another question

mystic wrote: »

You don't have to do anything. Your payment will transfer over. The only hassle you may have is that your payment will still be paid into your designated Post Office which may be difficult for you to get to because of the location of the college. You could always get your payment transferred to a more convenient Post Office until your BTEA gets sorted. You can call or e-mail your local office and they should be able to sort it for you.

Mystic would you mind giving your opinion on my situation as you seem to know abit about it and since the budget yesterday I'm quite confused.

I get €188 at the moment but I'm 24 and likely to be cut to €144 when I turn 25 next year.

My understanding of BTEA was that you got the payment equal to your JA rate - which up until yesterday would have meant that I would have received €188 BTEA for a degree starting in Sept. 2014.

Have you any idea what I can now expect to get? I saw €160 mentioned somewhere yesterday but will I only get €144 now?

Also I work part-time, have done continuously for 5 years with the same company. Roughly 10 hours per week though is all I get at the moment. Are you saying that this will also now effect BTEA when before part-time work wasn't meant to affect it.

Sorry for all the q's!

mystic

another question wrote: »

Mystic would you mind giving your opinion on my situation as you seem to know abit about it and since the budget yesterday I'm quite confused.

I get €188 at the moment but I'm 24 and likely to be cut to €144 when I turn 25 next year.

My understanding of BTEA was that you got the payment equal to your JA rate - which up until yesterday would have meant that I would have received €188 BTEA for a degree starting in Sept. 2014.

Have you any idea what I can now expect to get? I saw €160 mentioned somewhere yesterday but will I only get €144 now?

Also I work part-time, have done continuously for 5 years with the same company. Roughly 10 hours per week though is all I get at the moment. Are you saying that this will also now effect BTEA when before part-time work wasn't meant to affect it.

Sorry for all the q's!

No worries - ask away.

The Budget changes announced yesterday will only affect new applicants for BTEA in the 2014/2015 academic year. Likewise, the new reduced rates of Jobseekers Allowance will only effect new applicants from January 2014. So your current JA payment should stay the same.

You say you're working 10 hours per week, so you must be getting what's called Casual Jobseekers Allowance (which is less than the maximum rate). Your means from employment are taken away from this maximum rate (€188). This depends on the the number of days the 10 hours are worked over. I day of 10 hours, 2 days of 5 hours etc.

When you apply for BTEA next year, your hours worked in the previous 8 weeks will be used to calculate the BTEA payment.

The maximum BTEA rate you could expect to receive next September will be €160 (reduced from €188) and your means from casual employment will be taken away. That's the way it's working now.

However, the Budget Factsheet states that 'All jobseekers aged 18-25 years who participate in the Back to Education Allowance scheme will receive €160 per week. (January 2014)'

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/budfact14.pdf

Here's the link to the BTEA guidelines

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Education-Allowance-Scheme.aspx

'For new BTEA entrants where a person has been signing casually immediately prior to the commencement of a course , the rate of BTEA should be calculated by averaging SW payment from the last eight weeks payment. If there is a change in means circumstances, other than part-time work undertaken by the BTEA participant, during the academic year, then a revised decision may be applied.'

Hope this helps.

another question

mystic wrote: »

No worries - ask away.

The Budget changes announced yesterday will only affect new applicants for BTEA in the 2014/2015 academic year. Likewise, the new reduced rates of Jobseekers Allowance will only effect new applicants from January 2014. So your current JA payment should stay the same.

You say you're working 10 hours per week, so you must be getting what's called Casual Jobseekers Allowance (which is less than the maximum rate). Your means from employment are taken away from this maximum rate (€188). This depends on the the number of days the 10 hours are worked over. I day of 10 hours, 2 days of 5 hours etc.

When you apply for BTEA next year, your hours worked in the previous 8 weeks will be used to calculate the BTEA payment.

The maximum BTEA rate you could expect to receive next September will be €160 (reduced from €188) and your means from casual employment will be taken away. That's the way it's working now.

However, the Budget Factsheet states that 'All jobseekers aged 18-25 years who participate in the Back to Education Allowance scheme will receive €160 per week. (January 2014)'

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/budfact14.pdf

Here's the link to the BTEA guidelines

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Education-Allowance-Scheme.aspx

'For new BTEA entrants where a person has been signing casually immediately prior to the commencement of a course , the rate of BTEA should be calculated by averaging SW payment from the last eight weeks payment. If there is a change in means circumstances, other than part-time work undertaken by the BTEA participant, during the academic year, then a revised decision may be applied.'

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that. It's a bit of a balls to be honest. I thought before yesterday that I would get €188 per week BTEA and be allowed work part-time as I was and that, that income wouldn't be taken into account anymore.

€160 down to about €120 now if they are taking into account part-time employment is horrendous.

I hope they stick to what they said and let everyone who takes up an education place next Sept receive the €160 without any messing.

When do you think websites like Citizens Information will be updated with all the new Budget 2014 information?

mystic

So are you getting deducted €40 a week now from the maximum €188, that is a payment of €148.

'My understanding of BTEA was that you got the payment equal to your JA rate - which up until yesterday would have meant that I would have received €188 BTEA for a degree starting in Sept. 2014.'

Your understanding was right but it was only when the BTEA guidelines were released this year that the change re. casual earnings became apparent.

If you had no employment in the 8 weeks before going to college in 2014, then you would receive the maximum rate of €160. You would be then free to get a part-time job and your BTEA wouldn't be affected.

Here's the link to the Citizens Information Budget info. It's the same as the DSP Budget Factsheet that was issued yesterday.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/budget_2014.html#lae27e

another question

mystic wrote: »

So are you getting deducted €40 a week now from the maximum €188, that is a payment of €148.

'My understanding of BTEA was that you got the payment equal to your JA rate - which up until yesterday would have meant that I would have received €188 BTEA for a degree starting in Sept. 2014.'

Your understanding was right but it was only when the BTEA guidelines were released this year that the change re. casual earnings became apparent.

If you had no employment in the 8 weeks before going to college in 2014, then you would receive the maximum rate of €160. You would be then free to get a part-time job and your BTEA wouldn't be affected.

Here's the link to the Citizens Information Budget info. It's the same as the DSP Budget Factsheet that was issued yesterday.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/budget_2014.html#lae27e

I get deducted €15 a day at the moment but because I'm with the company 5 years, I will be due for an increase and service payment starting next year - when I did a quick calculation of how this would affect me, it works out that by them it will be a deduction of €20 for each day worked.

Currently I receive €158 a week from JA based on the €188 rate.

Would it be highly unethical to speak to my employer and try and get 8 weeks unpaid leave to say I'm not working? Or would I have to show that I was let go?

another question

This part still indicates that only new applicants aged 25 from January 2014 will get the €144:

From January 2014 new claimants of Jobseekers Allowance aged 25 years will get a reduced maximum payment of €144 per week, this will be replaced by an allowance of €160 if a claimant participates in the Back to Education Allowance scheme, in a FÁS course, the Vocational Training Opportunities Scheme (VTOS) or Youthreach course

mystic

another question wrote: »

I get deducted €15 a day at the moment but because I'm with the company 5 years, I will be due for an increase and service payment starting next year - when I did a quick calculation of how this would affect me, it works out that by them it will be a deduction of €20 for each day worked.

Currently I receive €158 a week from JA based on the €188 rate.

Would it be highly unethical to speak to my employer and try and get 8 weeks unpaid leave to say I'm not working? Or would I have to show that I was let go?

It looks like your means from employment are €30 so your BTEA next year would be €160 less €30 = €130 plus your income from working.

Are you on the X and O system? If your hours were reduced or cut altogether in the 8 weeks before going to college, then you would get more JA, and subsequently more BTEA.

I really can't comment on how ethical it may be to ask your employer about unpaid leave. I'm just stating the facts. If it was proven that you asked your employer for unpaid leave, your payment would be affected as it would be seen that you were voluntarily making yourself fully unemployed. However, if your employer didn't have the hours for you (a turndown in business leading to a possible temporary lay-off), it should be ok.

mystic

another question wrote: »

This part still indicates that only new applicants aged 25 from January 2014 will get the €144:

From January 2014 new claimants of Jobseekers Allowance aged 25 years will get a reduced maximum payment of €144 per week, this will be replaced by an allowance of €160 if a claimant participates in the Back to Education Allowance scheme, in a FÁS course, the Vocational Training Opportunities Scheme (VTOS) or Youthreach course

The devil is in the detail. That's the usual situation unless the person has means from employment. In previous years it didn't matter but this year it changed. It's the guidelines that are more important.

Perhaps give the BTEA Section a call. Tel:(071) 967 2616 or Locall:1890 927 999. Social Welfare Local Offices process and award the BTEA but the BTEA Section is responsible for the guidelines and more tricky cases.

another question

mystic wrote: »

It looks like your means from employment are €30 so your BTEA next year would be €160 less €30 = €130 plus your income from working.

Are you on the X and O system? If your hours were reduced or cut altogether in the 8 weeks before going to college, then you would get more JA, and subsequently more BTEA.

I really can't comment on how ethical it may be to ask your employer about unpaid leave. I'm just stating the facts. If it was proven that you asked your employer for unpaid leave, your payment would be affected as it would be seen that you were voluntarily making yourself fully unemployed. However, if your employer didn't have the hours for you (a turndown in business leading to a possible temporary lay-off), it should be ok.

Ok thanks.

Yes I'm on the X and O system.

I also might have the option of reducing my hours to 8 - then I could work 8 hours on a Sunday only (I'll be in college Mon-Fri and the workload for the course is meant to be quite heavy). That might make a difference as it would reduce income by 2 hours and reduce my deduction by 1 day.

I have always been very flexible with my employer, some weeks I worked 3 days a week at 2 x 3 hour days and 1 x 4 hour day and was deducted €45 for the week. That has happened several times over the last year due to staff shortages and I never received any extra income just a drop for the extra day as a result. So maybe now in Sept. they might return the favour.

another question

Thanks for all your help by the way

mystic

another question wrote: »

Thanks for all your help by the way

You're welcome. Good luck in college and don't forget to apply early.

Celly Smunt

Are people who are currently getting 188 for BTEA now going to get 188 next september or will it be reduced to 160?

Just digesting all of the budget stuff at the moment and am a bit pissed off for all of you dealing with increasing fees and decreasing grants/allowances.