The Budget back home

sin_city

Just listening to the whinging going on about the Budget on the Last Word podcast.

Basically those under 25 will only get 100 euros a weeks now and under 26 get 144.

Since I’ve come out here I don’t really have much sympathy for any young people claiming dole.

So many wasters back home living with the folks and pissing away the money they don’t need on booze, holidays and x box games.

I know a lot of people that come out to Australia basically have to take whatever work they can get and I think this stands to a person later on when the right job does come along.

Has Australia changed your opinion of “entitlements”? Amazing how people can manage without them over here.

Batgurl

Part of me agrees with you. There are far too many young ones who leave college and become lazy and complacent 'because there are no jobs out there'. Mooching off mammy and daddy and generally being dregs on society.

But at the same time, not everyone has great parents that they can rely on.

And by the same measure, SHOULD we expect parents to support adult children? At 18 they are legally an adult so why the age discrimination?

It's a catch 22 situation.

catbear

sin_city wrote: »

Has Australia changed your opinion of “entitlements”? Amazing how people can manage without them over here.

Try removing negative gearing and witness a sh*tstorm!

There seems to loads of centerlink allowances available here, when you're working and times are good you don't notice them.
I've been on the dole a few times in Ireland and anyone who told me I wasn't entitled to them can go f**k themselves. Why should the unemployed be the punch bag when not one banker, politician or Bishop has gone to jail for crimes that would put anyone else behind bars.
We went from 4% (which by some metrics is full employment) to 15% unemployment, they didn't just suddenly turn up to scrounge off the dole.

There's plenty more people getting handouts but they don't seem to attract the same ire as the unemployed, failed property speculators for instance. I know plenty of people in Ireland still working but have got a reduction on their property debts thanks to the public purse.

People who blame the unemployed for their circumstances are scum as far as I'm concerned, society elected a government that didn't govern and blaming the unemployed for that is hypocrisy. Unemployment can be soul destroying enough without being told you're to blame for the failure of the economy when the real culprits retire on generous pensions.

It seems to me that some people would rather denounce the unemployed for their condition rather than pursue those who crashed the economy.

AngryHippie

Living in Oz definitely has changed my opinion overall.
I think there are some major flaws in whats happening back home at the moment. While I do sympathize with young people who cannot find work. I don't get what the gubberment is trying to achieve.
My confusion surrounds a couple of key issues:

1) Fleecing the ordinary pension funds (the bankers concerned should all have lost theirs) to pay for corrupt bankers behavior.
This is contemptible in my opinion, people who have worked hard all their lives are going to die as paupers to fund incompetence and greed.
The second facet to this is that older people tend to be a little more sensible about their spending, they tend not to blow it all on fags and booze, and definitely won't stand by and watch a son or daughter go without, they would rather starve themselves and provide for the next generation. This is a historical fact. They are responsible spenders, taking money they have earned off them to give it to younger generations is foolish.

2) Considering welfare payments as a stimulus payment.
Dumb. Just plain dumb. It stimulate neither recipient nor economy. In order to get that effect, there needs to be a positive service in return. Whether that is voluntary contribution of time, or labor is irrelevant, if there was a contribution, then it is stimulating some activity. Otherwise it is just handing over some cash, of which 45-55% eventually makes its way back into govt. coffers. Get a service to the value of the remainder, and it still doesn't quite constitute stimulus, but at least its not a net loss.

3) 5 years on from the major blow-out of the banking crisis and still nobody has served any time for criminal misconduct.

Does the law permit what happened ?

Has the law been upheld ?

Did the gubberment of the time over-step their mandate intervening in corporate affairs ?

Has the law been changed to prevent this from happening ?

4) Looking at the figures on what this Austerity is supposed to achieve, and at the current situation in the USA, Is there any point in continuing with it, couldn't Ireland just be the first to say lets get the Punt back, to hell with the Troika, to hell with the Euro and the Dollar. Couldn't we just be a cold wet kind of Cuba ? Wouldn't we be better off if we did it early rather than late.

Instead we sit on the spiky fence while Europe make us bleed externally, Fine Gael make us bleed internally, and the global community shake their heads at the corpse of our "tiger" and wonder how a proud nation of people could be so misguided/stupid/unlucky depending on perspective.


All in all, I'm glad I'm over here, I just miss my family.

sin_city

@ catbear

I don't think its a situation where you blame either the bankers or the unemployed. Anyway, I have no problem giving older people that in the past paid taxes even more money than 188 euros a week.

I don’t condone giving large sums of money to young people for nothing. I would prefer reduce this even more to 80 or less a week and give small business owner tax cuts.

This would enable higher wages and give young people an incentive to work.

My opinion is that anyone that has paid taxes should receive a decent level of welfare. Those that have not, well there is no utopia.

Regarding the bankers, that problem will never be dealt with. We should have people that are really struggling protesting and calling for the punt to come back as AngryHippie said.

Seems to me like some people are too comfortable. Maybe it’s just where I come from, but when I went home earlier this year, one thing I noticed was that there was a large number of take aways still open.

Surely people aren’t that bad when they can afford to eat out enough to sustain a large take away industry.

catbear

@sincity
You said you didn't have any sympathy for any young person claiming the dole. For some it's their lifeline, it's all they got. If you can't handle that then I hope you never experience long term unemployment because I'm not sure you could handle it. And don't say it won't happen to you.

catbear

sin_city wrote: »

Seems to me like some people are too comfortable. Maybe it’s just where I come from, but when I went home earlier this year, one thing I noticed was that there was a large number of take aways still open.

Surely people aren’t that bad when they can afford to eat out enough to sustain a large take away industry.

F**k me but what planet do you live on? Do you think that only the unemployed buy takeouts? There must be loads of unemployed we don't know about in Australia!
Seriously, are you for real?

BTW, chippers survived the 80s too!

I won't trust to tell which way the wind was blowing!

sin_city

catbear wrote: »

F**k me but what planet do you live on? Do you think that only the unemployed buy takeouts? There must be loads of unemployed we don't know about in Australia!
Seriously, are you for real?

BTW, chippers survived the 80s too!

I won't trust to tell which way the wind was blowing!

So what you are confirming what I thought. It's not so bad for many unemployed and also many employed people?

Where I come from, take aways seem to be growing, never mind sustaining.

I don't know, I am comparing the fact that most young people arriving here don't have a safety net unless they have rich parents(lets face it, as you stated people aren't doing well enough to be sending money to the kids in Oz, so really there is a situation of either find any type of work or go home).

By the way, the world I live in is one where I compare the situation of a broke country such as Ireland where people live pretty good to other countries on this planet.

Our system is unsustainable. Really, we are incredibly broke and I would rather people get ready for the tougher future rather than wait for things to turn around.

Wompa1

sin_city wrote: »

I don't know, I am comparing the fact that most young people arriving here don't have a safety net unless they have rich parents(lets face it, as you stated people aren't doing well enough to be sending money to the kids in Oz, so really there is a situation of either find any type of work or go home).

Don't believe most have no safety net but then colour me skeptical. I don't believe somebody moves to the other side of the world with the possibility of getting stranded there and being homeless. Either there's a plan to have enough money to fly home again, an underlying knowledge that the parents could help out or knowing friend who are also over there that ya can lean on.

HillFarmer

Wompa1 wrote: »

Don't believe most have no safety net but then colour me skeptical. I don't believe somebody moves to the other side of the world with the possibility of getting stranded there and being homeless. Either there's a plan to have enough money to fly home again, an underlying knowledge that the parents could help out or knowing friend who are also over there that ya can lean on.

I'd say a lot would have no safety net, they back themselves and work hard.

HillFarmer

catbear wrote: »

F**k me but what planet do you live on? Do you think that only the unemployed buy takeouts? There must be loads of unemployed we don't know about in Australia!
Seriously, are you for real?

BTW, chippers survived the 80s too!

I won't trust to tell which way the wind was blowing!

I agree with Sin City, whats the incentive to work back home if you have a few kids. Rent allowance etc, house for few euros a week when your neighbour is paying a mortgage.
Know people backhome on the dole couple kids,go on foreign holiday every year and have never worked.

AngryHippie

Don't believe most have no safety net but then colour me skeptical. I don't believe somebody moves to the other side of the world with the possibility of getting stranded there and being homeless. Either there's a plan to have enough money to fly home again, an underlying knowledge that the parents could help out or knowing friend who are also over there that ya can lean on.

@Wompa1
Believe me when I say plenty of people come out here with no safety net.
Yeah, they could get enough from friends or family to get themselves back to Ireland if it all went horribly wrong, but as a loan, not a hand-out.(Start "leaning" on your friends over here, and you will soon get a lesson from the university of life)
So, no safety net. no nanny state to hand them money every week, no free parent's house to live in. Free emergency healthcare and a sure fire flight home if you fcuk with immigration, but that is the height of it.

Plenty of us have managed to make it work, and of the ones I know, not one of them doesn't miss their family and friends they left behind. But at some point in your life you have to face the fact that you get one life, and every week of it that you're not being productive is a waste.(whether productive is career wise, financially, emotionally or spiritually. Figure out what your reward from life needs to be for yourself)

An old fella in a pub in Dublin once had a moment of clarity and explained that its grand to be young and broke, but try being old and broke.
Just some food for thought

c0rk3r

I suppose its all relative to your personal circumstance isnt it. You came out here and “made it” so why cant everybody else ? No need to be sponging off the state and parents, right? But why did you, along with the hordes of other Irishmen come to Australia? Why didnt you take that job in the local take away or tescos?

Theres a message thats coming out loud and clear from our government and ive a lot of sympathy for the youth of Ireland.(im in my very late 20’s)

You spend 4 years in college and get yourself into debt. The college registration fees are going up and up. The grant system has changed significantly and its more difficult to secure. Theres also changes for masters and PHDS. You finally leave college and every jobs states that you must have experience. So you’re faced with Jobsbridge. Unpaid work for anything up to 18 months with potentially nothing at the end. You have experience and are now competing with a labour force that are willing to work for free. Its a con

Another option is apprenticeships but ive no idea how they’re going. Id hazard a guess theres hardly any out there with the massive hit the construction industry implosion took.

No the message here is if you’re young, Get out of the country

PucaMama

sin_city wrote: »

Just listening to the whinging going on about the Budget on the Last Word podcast.

Basically those under 25 will only get 100 euros a weeks now and under 26 get 144.

Since I’ve come out here I don’t really have much sympathy for any young people claiming dole.

So many wasters back home living with the folks and pissing away the money they don’t need on booze, holidays and x box games.

I know a lot of people that come out to Australia basically have to take whatever work they can get and I think this stands to a person later on when the right job does come along.

Has Australia changed your opinion of “entitlements”? Amazing how people can manage without them over here.

With that kind of attitude your welcome to stay in Australia

mandrake04

AngryHippie wrote: »

Plenty of us have managed to make it work, and of the ones I know, not one of them doesn't miss their family and friends they left behind. But at some point in your life you have to face the fact that you get one life, and every week of it that you're not being productive is a waste.(whether productive is career wise, financially, emotionally or spiritually. Figure out what your reward from life needs to be for yourself)

An old fella in a pub in Dublin once had a moment of clarity and explained that its grand to be young and broke, but try being old and broke.
Just some food for thought

Life is for living not for scrimping and struggling, you only live once but if done right once is enough.

I was back in Ireland last month for the All-Ireland final and the gaff wasn't as bad as I thought, it was great being back with family and friends for those 3 weeks but I couldn't help feeling that recession or not its the lifestyle that matters more to me than dodging the dole queue... I was still glad to come back to the sunshine and work.

sin_city

PucaMama wrote: »

With that kind of attitude your welcome to stay in Australia

I think you get me wrong. The way I see it is that Irish people are better off than most in the world. When I hear the whinging off loss of entitlements it annoys me a bit. I think we're better than that. In the past we were known for hard work. Thank goodness many that have come out to Oz have shown that, for a large percentage of us, this is still alive in our character.

I spoke to a woman asking about whether her son (who was and is still unemployed) would ever come to Australia but apparently "Australia wouldn't be for him". My Dad can't get some guys in to work for his small business as they wouldn't get out of bed for less than 100 euros a day.

People are literally dying on boats to get to Australia and we have a large section of young people (and some older too) that would rather p!ss away their money in the youth and keep claiming benefits......I just hope they aren't still complaining when no one will employ them in their 40s due to lack of experience.

I commend everyone that made a go of it here. Whether it worked out or not. Its an admirable thing to have.

I prefer to reward hard work, grafters and people that try rather than defend laziness that is hidden under the recession.

Dirkadirka

I'm 25 on the dole and hate it. I would kill for a job in the morning but the work is just not out there. I have sent in more job application in the last year then I have fingers and toes. Also I have been to Australia done 2 years there and had to come home because I couldn't find sponsorship and didn't want to stay there past my visa just incase I wanted to travel in the future. It's not all cracked up as they make it out to be. I found it hard enough to get work at times especially around Xmas on less you were tied up with a big company over there. Would you have left Ireland if the rescission didn't happen.? ???

ifeelill

sin_city wrote: »

Since I’ve come out here I don’t really have much sympathy for any young people claiming dole.

That's so arrogant, surprised you can still breath you're so high up on you pedestal.

danotroy

ifeelill wrote: »

That's so arrogant, surprised you can still breath you're so high up on you pedestal.

In fairness why do young people need 200 euro a week when they are living at home with their parents? When I did receive the dole of 204 euro a week back in 2009-2010 A 100 euro went to my mother for rent/food ad the remaining 104 went on beer and nights out I had the best summer of my life. I even managed 2 week paid holiday in Europe from the dole. I had no incentive to get a job I was 22 and part of a large group that were in a similar situation. However by the end of the summer our group had changed from a group of recent graduates with university degrees to a bunch of entitled free loaders claiming ever increasing entitlements (rent allowance etc).

I decided to take a personal bank loan and go to the UK to further my studies. After two years I returned and ended up signing back on to the welfare. It shocked me to see the same friends on the welfare complaining about how their fuel allowance had been cut and that dole was getting smaller and smaller every year. I think I received 189 euros a week in 2011. I managed to find a one shift a week cafe job where I lost 30 euros of my dole per day worked but earned 90 euros. I couldn't hand my mother up much as every week 90 euros went off my loan and I saved 90 euros to buy a flight to oz. the rest was spent on booze and by that time a beamish was 3 euro a pint so I could have a night on the beer with mates in the pub and have a few nights from the offie as well.

If I didn't have my bank loan I would of had a lot more disposable income and come to think of it I went to electric picnic in 2011 as well. Young people do not need close to 200 euros a week when they have no loans no bills and no rent.

danotroy

Dirkadirka wrote: »

Would you have left Ireland if the rescission didn't happen.? ???

I left Ireland to study before the recession hit so yes I would have most likely not been in Ireland if the recession didn't happen.

The Aussie

On a happy note, I'm getting Taxed about half my wages.

By the time its all added up, between charges, fees, taxes and other made up bundles of joy. :pac:

So some under 25 getting €100 a week for the dole is not on my radar :rolleyes:

sin_city

ifeelill wrote: »

That's so arrogant, surprised you can still breath you're so high up on you pedestal.

What is arrogant is expecting free money while most people in the world live on a scraps.

Take a step back. We're a small broke country that gives money to people for doing nothing. No matter how bad that is, surely you can see that many are starving and living on less than $20 a week around the world.

Who's being arrogant?

lg123

have to agree with the cuts to the welfare for the under 25s, most don't need it.

i have a mate who left a part time job in a cafe because the full weeks dole was enough to sustain the lifestyle he wanted, couldn't be bothered with the few days. this guy is 25-26ish, and i doubt worked 52 weeks in those 25 years.

i was on the dole for a while before i came out here, it was comfortable, it shouldn't be.

ifeelill

danotroy wrote: »

In fairness why do young people need 200 euro a week when they are living at home with their parents? When I did receive the dole of 204 euro a week back in 2009-2010 A 100 euro went to my mother

I think you just answered your own question

danotroy wrote: »

I had no incentive to get a job I was 22 and part of a large group that were in a similar situation. However by the end of the summer our group had changed from a group of recent graduates with university degrees to a bunch of entitled free loaders claiming ever increasing entitlements (rent allowance etc).

You sound like a waster mate just because thats how you conduct your self is no excuse to paint everyone else with your brush.

danotroy

ifeelill wrote: »

I think you just answered your own question




You sound like a waster mate just because thats how you conduct your self is no excuse to paint everyone else with your brush.

I will not resort to the pathetic nature of your post, name calling is something children do. Dole life is too easy if you are young it should not be encouraged as it has been for far to long.

If I was a waster I would be on the dole still.

jank

Every year the Irish budget is a media $hit storm. The hype surrounding it in good times and bad times is unreal and tbh tells you all about the entitlement culture in Ireland. A lot of this is driven by the left wing media.

As regards young peoples dole being cut, I think it should be cut accross the board. Sin City is right, ireland is broke and in receviership from the IMF, ECB and EU. We still have an unsustainable Public Sector and Welfare state. Half the population recieves some sort of payment from the state. There are 2 million Medical cards in the country. 85% of what we spend is centered around welfare, eduacation (85% off that on wages alone) and health where we could litterly sack half the HR staff without any loss of productivity. So much waste going on yet vested interests are very powerfull in Ireland. The Unions need to be smashed. Then we can see real reform, real savings for the tax payers and a more accountable Public Sector.

Regards Australia, well as I always tell myself, the Queen maybe the head of state but the country is far more a republic in outluck, culture, work ethic and political theory than anything Ireland had to offer.