Keane calls for realism from fans....

buckfasterer

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

LuckyLloyd

buckfasterer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

Sigh.

Did you actually read the article OP?

What did he say to cause such an outcry? Seems fairly spot on to me.

buckfasterer

rarnes1 wrote: »

Did you actually read the article OP?

What did he say to cause such an outcry? Seems fairly spot on to me.

I just hate the constant tripe spouted that we arent good enough, lower expectations etc. Just a cop out for poor performances in my opinion.

Mitch Connor

buckfasterer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

Wouldn't say 'no problem', as Sweden are not a bad side - but we should have put up a far better fight that we did.

My issue with Ireland isn't that we aren't winning tournements or qualifying all the time - it is the terrible football we play and PLAN to play while still failing to do ourselves any justice.

Our group in the Euros was a damn tough one, but our displays in the games were a sham and the misuse of the squad was a major reason I was calling for Trap to be gone after it.

This WC group was not an easy one - but there hasn't been a single game where we can say, as fans, we are happy with what we saw, really. No issue losing to Germany, but the manner of the defeat at home was the problem. The lack of control or composure shown vs Austria was a disgrace too.

It isn't 'realism' to think we should be able to perform a level or two better than we have seen in the last 2 years.

Lightbulb Sun

Robbie is bang on the money there.

Zico

Just look at Wales, Scotland and the ultimate dose of reality Norn Iron.

We've been punching above our weight for a while now. The hammerings we've received are proof of this.

Paully D

We were always going to struggle to get out of this group. Germany would have won it at a canter with their reserves and Sweden are simply a better side than us who have only missed one major tournament in the last six.

I do think we should have finished ahead of Austria but there you go.

CSF

buckfasterer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

Please read articles before having a go at them. You're the one who needs to **** (whatever those 4 stars signify) off.

Skid X

buckfasterer wrote: »

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

Dignity?

Hows about a bit of respect for the man first - telling him to **** off is well out of order.

Idbatterim

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

I hope to god he doesnt go until the end of the next campaign, how in gods name will we score without him?! we have no other natural finishers...

rob316

buckfasterer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/

Really?? **** off Robbie. With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem. You done a great job in your hay day, but that was then and this is now. Retire with a bit of dignity now please.

We couldn't of made the playoffs, stopped kidding yourself. Austria and Sweden far better teams. The Irish public will soon realise trap isn't the problem it's just the really sub standard players we can play. For me Coleman is the only stand out player in that side.

Mr.Nice Guy

So some people are so stuck in their ways that even the country's greatest ever forward and captain hasn't got a clue!

Keane is correct of course.

We just don't have enough quality players to produce the kind of displays that some fans are asking for. None of our players play for top sides, and the Welsh actually have more playing for top clubs than we do.

Any manager that comes in is going to have to accentuate the positives - width, energetic forwards, combative, hard-working players - and hide the negatives - players in midfield who can't keep the ball as well as most of their European counterparts, and central defenders not comfortable on the ball.

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed if a knowledgeable coach comes in because the chances are they will do as Trap did and go for the direct approach. People talk about McCarthy's good football but he had very good midfield options: Keane, Holland, Kinsella, Carsley.

We are at a very low ebb now in terms of midfield talent. McCarthy is far from the finished article; Gibson hasn't done much in a green jersey and may be out for some time now; Hoolahan and Reid are not young guys; Whelan doesn't inspire confidence; Andrews likewise.

Where is the cause for optimism that we can knock the ball about well like most European nations? We are the international equivalent of a lower league Premier League or Championship side.

The only way we can have substantial change is to rectify how we bring players through. No use expecting wine when all we've got is water. If we want wine then we've got to start learning how to make it.

BMMachine

buckfasterer wrote: »

With the right management, that Ireland team could have made the play offs no problem.

Sweden and Germany are two of the best nations at qualifying for tournaments in the world, ever. And you say that with the right management it would be "no problem". Please think a bit more before burying one of our players for expressing himself

Idbatterim

Austria and Sweden far better teams.

They each had one player that was head and shoulders above the rest. Without them I think they would be on par with a poor current Irish team (because of players or manager - whichever side your on)

grenache

Zico wrote: »

Just look at Wales, Scotland and the ultimate dose of reality Norn Iron.

We've been punching above our weight for a while now. The hammerings we've received are proof of this.

That's just not true. And it's such a negative and defeatist attitude. What exactly is "our weight" then?

The likes of Gibson, Keane, McCarthy, Reid, McGeady, Hoolahan, Dunne, Forde, Coleman, etc are all decent players. Not world class, but decent. With a squad like ours we should be more than capable of seriously challenging for second spot in any group.

This attitude of "punching above our weight" or "we don't have the players" is nonsense. We do have the players. We just need a good manager to get the best out of them.

If Iceland with a population equivalent to Cork City & environs can make the Playoffs, then so can we.

Hannibal

grenache wrote: »

That's just not true. And it's such a negative and defeatist attitude. What exactly is "our weight" then?

The likes of Gibson, Keane, McCarthy, Reid, McGeady, Hoolahan, Dunne, Forde, Coleman, etc are all decent players. Not world class, but decent. With a squad like ours we should be more than capable of seriously challenging for second spot in any group.

This attitude of "punching above our weight" or "we don't have the players" is nonsense. We do have the players. We just need a good manager to get the best out of them.

If Iceland with a population equivalent to Cork City & environs can make the Playoffs, then so can we.

if Dunne had have been fit then we could've have done better, him and St Ledger always looked a good combo.

Kazakhstan has a population of 17m so they should be hammering us if ability is based on population. In fairness to Iceland they seemed to get a lucky draw with Norway and Slovenia on a downturn with Switzerland as top seeds, whereas we drew Germany who were always going through and had to contend with Sweden who regularly make the finals and an emerging Austrian side.

Looking at Icelands squad they have goalkeepers and defenders playing at a poor level with clubs mostly in Denmark and Norway, whereas their midfield has players playing in Holland and Italy with Gudjohnsen, Sigurdsson and Gunnarsson well known to EPL watchers plus Sigthorsson whos a top young striker playing for Ajax.

Maybe our problem is we've no diversity in our squad, our squad is made up half and half of top flight and second flight English teams with Keane and McGeady playing in the US and Russia. Liam Lawrence performed well until he went to Greece and hasn't been seen since, I think Lawrence, Stokes and McGeady are the only Irish players playing European football this year aswell. We have the same problem as Scotland and Wales with our players only ever looking to play in Britain and are not prepared to go off to other Europan leagues. We've as good a team as Sweden bar Ibrahimovic but I think the fact countries like this have a good mix gives them an advantage in international football as they're players are used to different styles of football.

Dempsey

dont forget Alfreð Finnbogason, a very talented player

PhlegmyMoses

I'm going to be honest, there's not a lot Robbie Keane could do to upset me. Oh you fancy my missus Robbie? Oh you little scamp, away bank to Tallaght with you. Irish legend

cournioni

Load of bollocks Robbie. Look at Sweden, Ibrahimovic aside, look at their players and look at ours. There isn't much of a difference in class there. We have better players than Austria also in my opinion. Both of them have finished above us and it was mostly down to shocking performances both on the field and on the sideline.

This is exactly the sort of ****e that pisses me off about Ireland. The mentality should be to win, no matter what level of players we have out there. Ireland fans are not stupid, we know when we do not have the players, but we do expect hunger and fight from our players when we are up against "bigger" opposition. If the result doesn't go our way, then fair enough, but the performances have been dire since the Euros.

So Robbie, do us a favour and retire already. This poisonous bull**** does our younger players no good.

cournioni

Hannibal wrote: »

I think Lawrence, Stokes and McGeady are the only Irish players playing European football this year aswell.

Cillian Sheridan, James McClean and Chris McCann are three others.

cournioni

cournioni wrote: »

Load of bollocks Robbie. Look at Sweden, Ibrahimovic aside, look at their players and look at ours. There isn't much of a difference in class there. We have better players than Austria also in my opinion. Both of them have finished above us and it was mostly down to shocking performances both on the field and on the sideline.

This is exactly the sort of ****e that pisses me off about Ireland. The mentality should be to win, no matter what level of players we have out there. Ireland fans are not stupid, we know when we do not have the players, but we do expect hunger and fight from our players when we are up against "bigger" opposition. If the result doesn't go our way, then fair enough, but the performances have been dire since the Euros.

So Robbie, do us a favour and retire already. This poisonous bull**** does our younger players no good.

So if you take Ibra out we are on a par with Sweden? Not so sure about that. Also, unless you planned to take him out its a moot point. They are better than us, end of story.


As for calling for Keane to retire. In case you haven't noticed there's not much talent coming behind him in his position, poor to average in fact.

EuropeanSon

You can't just say "Ibrahimovic aside". Ibrahimovic is a huge deal, can't just set his importance aside.

Moneymaker

cournioni wrote: »

So Robbie, do us a favour and retire already. This poisonous bull**** does our younger players no good.

Yes, we could really do without the goals he brings to the side. :rolleyes:

StephenHendry

robbies bang on there, our expectation levels need to come down a lot, even england are beginning to realise that now :P as he said we need to develop a better style of playing and bringing new players through, along road ahead of us

rob316

grenache wrote: »

That's just not true. And it's such a negative and defeatist attitude. What exactly is "our weight" then?

The likes of Gibson, Keane, McCarthy, Reid, McGeady, Hoolahan, Dunne, Forde, Coleman, etc are all decent players. Not world class, but decent. With a squad like ours we should be more than capable of seriously challenging for second spot in any group.

This attitude of "punching above our weight" or "we don't have the players" is nonsense. We do have the players. We just need a good manager to get the best out of them.

If Iceland with a population equivalent to Cork City & environs can make the Playoffs, then so can we.

Population has got nothing to do with it. Its down to quality of player and we just don't have it. Iceland have a few well known quality names in there squad, that's the difference. Sweeden have Ibrahimovic and Austria have Alaba, who do we have exactly who even comes close to this?

We finished were we deserved to. Blame Trap's negative style all you want, but when the next manager's head is been called for will the penny finally drop and the public will realise we are just not good enough?

The type of player we produce is all wrong and probably more down to the English system as the majority of these players are coached over there.

England are having the very same problem.

dsmythy

If our players are near solely involved in England then we're doomed to be an England B with the same crap technique only with worse players. Ask Scotland and N Ireland for reference.

rob316

dsmythy wrote: »

If our players are near solely involved in England then we're doomed to be an England B with the same crap technique only with worse players. Ask Scotland and N Ireland for reference.

That is the crux of the problem. Is that what we essentially are? We call up players who just aren't good enough to play for England even.

When the English better there coaching we will see the benefits. I said it on another thread I think, you are still encouraged to kick it long and get rid of it at youth level here, from what I have seen anyway.

inforfun

Dont kid yourselves, if it wasnt for the fight and determitaion an Irish team can put up, you ll be in the ranks of the Latvia's and Estonia's. Permenantly put in bowl 4 ot 5 of EC and WC draws.

If you have no youth program and no national league of any standard, your national team will show that.

astonaidan

Robbie Keane really does bring out those lads who know nothing about the sport :mad:

Jarrod

RTE are really starting to p1ss me off with this sh1t. I could tolerate Bill and the boys talking nonsense as everyone knew they were just winding each other up. But between Tony O'Donoghue thinking he's Alex fcuking Ferguson in his post match interviews and this sort of bullsh1t headline they can go fcuk themselves.

This is what I assume RTE is basing the headline on, ''There's no harm in having expectations, but sometimes you have to look at the reality as well, and the reality is at the moment we are just not right there.'' I've no issue with that.

The only other bit people could be bothered by is "We need more players to be coming through playing at a higher level. At the moment, that's not the case. Obviously, there are a few, there's no question about that.'' This is also spot on.

The lack of respect for Robbie Keane among certain fans is astounding. IMO, he's still our best and most important player and I've some bad news for anyone waiting for him to retire, we'll never see a striker as good playing for Ireland again.

The_Kew_Tour

Tony being compared to Alex Ferguson??? Wtf ??

Jarrod

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tony being compared to Alex Ferguson??? Wtf ??

His populist bullsh1t approach of more or less telling Trap who should have been playing where and what subs he should have brought on, as though he's some sort of authority on the matter.

who_ru

Jarrod wrote: »

The lack of respect for Robbie Keane among certain fans is astounding. IMO, he's still our best and most important player and I've some bad news for anyone waiting for him to retire, we'll never see a striker as good playing for Ireland again.

now how can you possibly know that ffs?

Agricola

Jarrod wrote: »

His populist bullsh1t approach of more or less telling Trap who should have been playing where and what subs he should have brought on, as though he's some sort of authority on the matter.

I just dont get this mindset. What exactly is Tony OD there to do except ask the manager for the reasoning behind his selections and his tactics?
He certainly isnt there to simply congratulate him on a win, and commiserate on a loss!

Football fans have an interest in and an opinion on the team. Many of them buy tickets for games, so they are contributing towards the manager's wages. They may have an opinion on who should play where and how. They would like the manager to explain his own reasoning for what he does. Someone like Tony OD is just providing an outlet for those fans, whether they be armchair or otherwise.
He isnt trying to tell the manager his job and I bet if you asked him, he would be the first to admit he is just a sports reporter and has no authority on the matter!

LuckyLloyd

who_ru wrote: »

now how can you possibly know that ffs?

You're right, the next Messi could be kicking a ball against a wall on the outskirts of Balla right now.

Let's just say the odds of unearthing another ~60 goals in ~130 caps striker is extremely slim though.