planning for cow shed less than 60 metres from my house

cranefly

Guys i hope someone can tell me what is the minimum distance a slated cow shed can be built from a private house in the countryside.

This shed and all that goes with it, namely a large slurry tank, the shed itself is over 140ft long and 12ft high, it has been granted planning permission by the planning department in cork.

We put in an observation that the shed was too close to our house, i think i read on boards.ie a link to the planning laws stating any agricultural buildings should not be built within 100 metres of a private dwelling.

The farmers plans for his development had the slated shed less than sixty metres from my house, that is why we put in the observation in the first place, I stupidly thought the planners might make it a condition of the permission to move the shed further away down the field which is a large field of around 16 acres, why did he get full planning permission to build it right behind our house.

Is this shed part of an exempted development i wonder? we are the only dwelling in the area that is affected by this.

would it be a waste of 220 euro to appeal this decision if the farmer is well within his rights to build this shed 60 metres from the back of my house. thankyou.

rayjdav

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

The link above is the Planning& dev regs and if you scroll down to Exempted Dev. Sched 2 Part 3 Rural (Agri Structures) Class 6 this is what you refer to??
This basically means that if the shed were to be constructed under this article of the regs he must abide by these sub conditions so by virtue of going thru the system, these are actually irrelevant and the Planners report is what you need to see and if you deem it warrants the appeal, off you go.

Have you a borehole that may be affected if the tank failed?
Is there access issues with increased traffic to/from the shed/field by slurry tankers for more constant de-sludging?
There are numerous valid reasons for you to appeal.
Point of caution, as I have seen numerous times before, rural objections can lead to unfriendly relations, that carry through...

Tokyo

I thought, from what I read on Teagasc before, that even with exempted developments, the distance from any other dwelling had to be over 100 metres unless consent from the owner is obtained.

http://www.teagasc.ie/advisory/farm_management/buildings/planning_permission/PlanningRequirementsforFarmBuildingDevelopment.pdf

Having said that seeing as planning has already gone through, as rayjdav pointed out, there may be a good reason for this, so now you're going to have to take a look at the planners report and see how they came to their conclusions and work from there.

One thing I do have to ask is, have you actually spoken to the farmer in question about this, before putting in for observation, calling up the planning office etc? At the end of the day farming is his livelihood, and the shed has to be in a practical location for him, and a friendly conversation over the wall could answer an awful lot of questions. Conversation regarding myself and the neighbours slatted shed consisted of:

"Sure I'm thinking of putting up a shed down the back"
"Grand, sure I might put one up myself down there next year"

Friendly conversation trumps running to the planning office in the countryside anyday, this I can promise you. Those farmers have been there since time began, have very long memories, and you might find that the slurry you're worried about is being spread an awful lot closer than 60 metres to your house for years to come if you don't at least have a chat with the man first.

rayjdav

No, what you highlighted in red is the fact that it will only be exempt if this sub condition is also met, save for the size limits been adhered to, additional to the fact.

It is only fact if it says it in the document I linked to. Basically, any other source can have an opinion or interpretation but the regs. are the law.

Tokyo

rayjdav wrote: »

No, what you highlighted in red is the fact that it will only be exempt if this sub condition is also met, save for the size limits been adhered to, additional to the fact.

It is only fact if it says it in the document I linked to. Basically, any other source can have an opinion or interpretation but the regs. are the law.

Yep, you're right now that I think about it - farmer has planning for his shed so thats not a condition. My own shed was exempt from planning which is why it stuck in my mind.

cranefly

it looks like he can build his slatted shed wherever he wants, i think from what i have read so far, if it was an exempted development, he would have to stay 100 metres or more away from my house, but because it is not exempted and he went for full planning permission it was up to the planners to say yes or no.

why they granted permission for it so close to our house i cannot figure out, maybe the planners report will tell me, thanks for letting me know about that rayjdav.

mike ie. i have known this farmer for nearly 30 years, we bought this place from his mother, we always got on well with him, but not one word did he say about planning to build this shed, he could have placed his shed well away from our house, no need to be right on top of us. its a pretty big field.

this farmer has dumped tonnes of soil and building rubble at the back of our house, he built a cattle crush and holding pen 50 ft from our back door and we let him get away with that, but i thought enough is enough with this shed. but it looks like he will get away with building it where he wants or the planners would have taken into account our feelings about it and said move it back.

Tokyo

cranefly wrote: »

mike ie. i have known this farmer for nearly 30 years, we bought this place from his mother, we always got on well with him, but not one word did he say about planning to build this shed, he could have placed his shed well away from our house, no need to be right on top of us. its a pretty big field.

I think that you need to take a step back, because you're beginning to bring previous issues into the situation where they aren't really relevant.

this farmer has dumped tonnes of soil and building rubble at the back of our house, he built a cattle crush and holding pen 50 ft from our back door and we let him get away with that

With all due respect, you didn't "let him get away with that". The farmer "dumped tonnes of soil and building rubble" on his own land which happens to be behind of your house, and same with the cattle crush, which realistically probably only gets used a few times a year. In my experience, I think that quite a few non farmers who live in the country expect to be looking out at something similar to the rolling meadows and the cow on the Kerrygold butter packet every day, rather than a working farm.

but i thought enough is enough with this shed. but it looks like he will get away with building it where he wants or the planners would have taken into account our feelings about it and said move it back.

Seems to me that the man has done everything right - I know plenty who'd put the shed up without checking planning laws and hope for the best. He's gone through all the official channels, so your complaint really is with them now, and I think that you should give them a call and find out why they allowed the build.

But I'll reiterate my original question - have you spoken to the farmer in question? From what you write, it doesn't really sound like you have, over this shed, or the cattle crush or building rubble for that matter. Maybe you should - he might be more amenable than you think....

cranefly

i dont think you quite understand where i am coming from, there are more than just farmers who live in the countryside, if i had a field that big, i would not upset a neighbour by plonking it down within spitting distance of the only house in the area, as for talking to him, that works both ways, he signed off on his architects drawings and told him exactly where he wanted that shed, a bit of cop on by farmers to their neighbours would not go amiss. i did try to talk to him the day he put the notice up, he was not their, so i left word that i wanted to talk about the site notice, he never got back to me. somehow i do not think he would have changed any part of his plans as they had already been sent to the planning dept.

This has taught me one good lesson, no matter how friendly you are with landowners/farmers, nearly 30 years i have known this fella, at the end of the day their bottom line is the bottom line. when you say ' seems to me the man has done everything right' maybe he has legally, but then again some farmers think that the countryside is only for farmers and their labourers to live in, and to hell with the rest of us. i would like to think i would never treat a neighbour like that, but then i don not have to think about milk quotas ending and trying to double the size of my herd, and good luck to him. for me this has ended me and my familys friendship with him, from what i have gathered upto now, their is no point in my objecting to this shed being so close, the planners report from cork said ' the distance from the dwelling and the proposed mitigation measures [landscaping] are considered sufficient to limit any potential noise/odour nuisance ' in other words plant a few blackthorn and holly bushes around it and that will be good enough for us.

john_cappa

If you actually approach him there may be very logical reasons as to why that corner was chosen for the shed.

Tokyo

I'm somewhat loathe to let a thread asking for information descend into a personal back and forth, but....

cranefly wrote: »

i dont think you quite understand where i am coming from, there are more than just farmers who live in the countryside,

Actually I do. I live in the countryside myself, on a working farm, and have done all my life. Neighbours on one side are farmers, neighbour on the other side is a retired priest, and probably every house for a mile and a half either side is an equal mix of farmers and non-farmers. I'm well aware of the mix of needs and issues that comes with that.

if i had a field that big, i would not upset a neighbour by plonking it down within spitting distance of the only house in the area

Having built a couple of slatted sheds myself, I can well understand why he might have picked a particular location to put his shed. Ease of access to the farmyard, easy penning and feeding of animals, easy access to the aforementioned cattle crush for testing animals, easy cleaning of shed, running power to shed, etc, rather than just plonking it down in the middle of the field. In other words, I doubt he put the shed there simply to piss you off.

i did try to talk to him the day he put the notice up, he was not their, so i left word that i wanted to talk about the site notice, he never got back to me.

Doesn't sound like an overly concerted effort on your part, considering how concerned you are. Perhaps you should have called back more than once?

This has taught me one good lesson, no matter how friendly you are with landowners/farmers, nearly 30 years i have known this fella, at the end of the day their bottom line is the bottom line. when you say ' seems to me the man has done everything right' maybe he has legally, but then again some farmers think that the countryside is only for farmers and their labourers to live in, and to hell with the rest of us. i would like to think i would never treat a neighbour like that, but then i don not have to think about milk quotas ending and trying to double the size of my herd, and good luck to him.

From what you write here at least, you don't seem to have an overly high opinion of your neighbour, or farmers in general. People who move to the country need to realise that they live in the countryside, that it's a working area, and not always rolling fields of corn, and green pastures dotted with black and white cows. And what you say doesn't ring true of the wonderful 30 year relationship you claim you've had with him since you moved to the area.

the planners report from cork said ' the distance from the dwelling and the proposed mitigation measures [landscaping] are considered sufficient to limit any potential noise/odour nuisance ' in other words plant a few blackthorn and holly bushes around it and that will be good enough for us.

Quite possible that the "tonnes of soil and building rubble" you described is for a defensive bank to block sound, and somewhere to plant vegetation to hide the shed from your view. Fact is you don't know, because you haven't spoken to the man. The planning office seem to find the location acceptable, but feel free to post a few photos up here so we can see.

prewtna

I'm not a farmer. I live in the countryside. I feel your pain. Slurry is smelly **** and cattle in slatted houses are noisy hoors, but . . .

Seems you didn't make too much of an effort to talk to the farmer in question. Farmer will put the shed where it suits him best and if there was going to be an issue, you should have been more pro-active talking to him. He is not psychic!

He seems to have jumped through all the planning hoops (where a lot wouldn't bother), so to be honest the issue is between yourself and the planners now really. The farmer doesn't seem to have a whole lot wrong.

If you allow this situation to fester - which you seem to be doing - it will get very nasty for a very long time.

Tread carefully.

Tokyo

Out of curiosity, I measured how far back our own slatted shed is from the house, and it's 67 metres. And in between the two we have room for the back yard of the house, work sheds, vegetable garden, hayshed, then the pen for the cows in front of the slatted shed. So it's not exactly built right up against the back wall of your garden.

You can also take measures to block potential sound or view yourself - row of quick growing trees or bushes along the back wall for example....

cranefly

Thanks too everyone who contributed here, i take every ones points on board.
i think i have the answer too my question about the distance query, and it is if the planners think the distance is fine then they will grant the planning permission.

A condition he has to abide by is to decommission the cattle crush and holding pen at the back of our house, which i think means just dont use it for housing cattle or storing animal feed, once the planners put that condition in then their was no need for the shed to be so close to the cattle crush, its a fully greenfield site, his main farmyard is accross the village. I understand why he wants a slatted shed in that field, the planners report did not like the idea of a shed in a green field site when his main farmyard has all the amenities for this development only 800 metres away, that is probably a point we could object on.

I wish he would have kept it a little bit further away 100 metres would have been great, so for the sake of 40 metres or so i will keep quiet and probably will not object to his shed. From my point of view i should have gone further in talking too him, but i read the planning act wrong, i thought it was the law to keep it 100 metres away and so i thought they would grant the permission with that as a condition, how wrong could i have been, cant blame the farmer for that. Being uneducated is a terrible thing, i have grown to love the countryside since moving here, the kerrygold cow on the hill is a nice picture of country life, but i know their is alot more too it than that. I like walking round his fields too much, so i wont be falling out with him over this. thanks to everyone who gave their advice on this matter.

Tokyo

I'm glad that you found some form of resolution, with yourself if not with the shed thats popping up next door. If it's any consolation, I look at cities wondering why the hell they need to build massive industrial estates and houses up on top of each other, so it's all about point of view I guess.


The freedom to walk the mans land is something not to be taken lightly, not many allow it nowadays. I'm glad that you have the chance to enjoy it.