Driving slowly on a main road

kaji

Probably the wrong thread, but just wondering if it's against the law to drive slowly (say 50-60km) on a main road with a speed limit of 100km and not pull over to let people pass? Every morning I encounter some driver who is holding up a whole pile of cars, and no they aren't learner drivers.

SCOOP 64

No,don't think hes breaking any laws at 60 km in a 100 km limit,being 100 km is the max speed, and he does not have to pull over, no matter how annoying it may seem.

J_R

Hi,

The Rules of the Road :-

Your position on the road

Make sure you drive your vehicle far enough to the left to allow traffic to safely pass or overtake on the right but not so far to the left that you are driving on a cycle lane or blocking or endangering cyclists or pedestrians.

So, it depends on the width of the road. If he/she could safely drive closer to the left then they are needlessly causing an obstruction.

People who drive in the center of the road cause accidents. Hampered and delayed motorists get frustrated and then may take a reckless gamble to overtake.

Read this:- Garda Traffic Watch give them a ring lo-call number 1890 205 805.

Or write a letter to the local Garda. Get a few other signatures on it if possible. Are all his brake and indicator lights working, no broken lenses ?

Only other avenue, leave earlier, get in front.

I can't tell you why

kaji wrote: »

Probably the wrong thread, but just wondering if it's against the law to drive slowly (say 50-60km) on a main road with a speed limit of 100km and not pull over to let people pass? Every morning I encounter some driver who is holding up a whole pile of cars, and no they aren't learner drivers.

'Every morning'. Maybe you just need to be more patient. Not everyone is happy to drive at the same speed you choose to. Maybe they are not driving to slow, but you are the one driving too fast. Maybe?

ShaShaBear

Darragh D ADI wrote: »

'Every morning'. Maybe you just need to be more patient. Not everyone is happy to drive at the same speed you choose to. Maybe they are not driving to slow, but you are the one driving too fast. Maybe?

Once the OP is not doing more than 100km/h, they are technically not going too fast. And I am pretty sure that ALL driving instructors inform their students that driving too slow can be just as dangerous as driving too fast. Especially in a concealed area like a hill where you might think there is only one car in front of you, but it turns out to be more.

bumper234

kaji wrote: »

Probably the wrong thread, but just wondering if it's against the law to drive slowly (say 50-60km) on a main road with a speed limit of 100km and not pull over to let people pass? Every morning I encounter some driver who is holding up a whole pile of cars, and no they aren't learner drivers.

This is the speed limit not a suggestion, if you are getting stuck behind the same car EVERY morning would it not be better to just leave home 5 minutes earlier?

miss no stars

I kinda understand the OP's frustration. Everyone here harping on about how the other driver is perfectly allowed to drive at half the speed limit and everyone else be damned. Yet the same people will tell you that if 4 times during the driving test you don't keep up with traffic or drive at (or near to) the limit when it's safe to you'll fail your test. It's BAD DRIVING if people can't do a reasonable speed on a wide unobstructed road. While it may not be specifically itemized as illegal, dangerous driving is an offence and driving so slowly as to needlessly create an obstruction could KILL people. It's dangerous and bad practice. If you're not confident enough to achieve the speed limit then you shouldn't be on the road (with exceptions to certain occassions, such as driving on a punctured run flat tyre, feeling ill.. but they don't happen every day without fail).

ardmacha

Once the OP is not doing more than 100km/h, they are technically not going too fast.

This is absolute nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that. Once the OP is not doing more than 100km/h they are not breaking the speed limit, but they may well be driving too fast or even dangerously.

Generally people here are geting mixed up between bad manners (holding up traffic) and outright bad driving.
Some people have no manners, but this is not generally illegal.

MrBizzles

Im always driving up and down the country with work, it annoys me when people drive well below the speed limit, i would consider it very dangerous. If someone is learning to drive they should stay off motorways until they are confident enough to drive at the correct speeds of the road

RustyNut

J_R wrote: »

Hi,


People who drive in the center of the road cause accidents. Hampered and delayed motorists get frustrated and then may take a reckless gamble to overtake.

Wrong, people who drive well below the speed limit in the middle of the road are bad inconsiderate drivers who pi55 people off.

People who when pi55ed off by other drivers overtake dangerously are dangerous drivers who cause accidents.

goalscoringhero

I think we're lacking a bit of context before making such general statements.

miss no stars wrote: »

If you're not confident enough to achieve the speed limit then you shouldn't be on the road (with exceptions to certain occassions, such as driving on a punctured run flat tyre, feeling ill.. but they don't happen every day without fail).

I always drive 50km/h or less on this road, given the speed limit of 80km/h:
http://goo.gl/maps/MOCPh

There's houses around with gardens along the road. It narrows down so much that two cars cannot pass each other without pulling in and waiting for the other car to pass.

Bad practice? I don't think so. As someone pointed out before, the speed limit is not a target.

lycan238

Gotta point something out here. On a main National route where the speed limit is 100km/hr many things influence the speed at which a driver can travel. Road conditions and the weather are the main one for example this morning the roads were very wet. In my situation I left a larger gap to the vehicle in front of me I would consider this good driving practice. If a driver comes up to close behind me it does make me nervous despite me passing my test over 5 years ago.

Other days there may be fog, snow or ice on the roads. These three things along with the two above will influence the speed at which I travel. In saying that providing I am not following a slow vehicle I normally will travel at 80 km/hr plus on national routes or take an alternative route that does not involve travelling on national routes.

Days 298

goalscoringhero wrote: »

I think we're lacking a bit of context before making such general statements.



I always drive 50km/h or less on this road, given the speed limit of 80km/h:
http://goo.gl/maps/MOCPh

There's houses around with gardens along the road. It narrows down so much that two cars cannot pass each other without pulling in and waiting for the other car to pass.

Bad practice? I don't think so. As someone pointed out before, the speed limit is not a target.

That's just an example of a bad speed limit. Should be 50 but if the locals don't object its 80. Totally different to being in a national road doing less than 70.

Get marked down for lack of progress if you go under 40 in a 50 in the driving test unless you've a good reason iirc.

FunLover18

I do think it's quite inconsiderate to not let people past, especially when on a national road there can be plenty of room to do so.

I don't like to generalise but I've found the slowest drivers to be women and old people. I think the oldies are generally just over cautious and I often feel that some female drivers feel they have a reputation to uphold. In the same way that there is a pressure on women to be glamorous and slim, etc, I think there's a similar societal pressure on them to be "safe" drivers. That's just an impression I get though.

As people have pointed out keeping up with traffic etc is a vital part of passing the driving test, and I do find it frustrating.

On a similar note however how do people feel about letting people pass when you're doing the speed limit. I've often found myself doing 100 on national roads and had someone right up me hole. Half of me thinks I shouldn't enable the driver to break the law and endanger lives and the other half thinks he/she's going to pass you out anyway, may as well let them do it as safely as you can. You also won't relax properly while they're their glaring at you in your rear view. Thoughts?

lycan238

FunLover18 wrote: »

On a similar note however how do people feel about letting people pass when you're doing the speed limit. I've often found myself doing 100 on national roads and had someone right up me hole. Half of me thinks I shouldn't enable the driver to break the law and endanger lives and the other half thinks he/she's going to pass you out anyway, may as well let them do it as safely as you can. You also won't relax properly while they're their glaring at you in your rear view. Thoughts?

very interesting point. when a car is that close to you that you have trouble to see the front lights/number plate of the car behind then it is a serious time to worry in my opinion. one wrong move by the car in front and the car behind has no hope in hell of not hitting the car in front. I normally would drive to the left on a main road however I was advised by a driving instructor that this may lead to a driver behind taking more of a risk to go by as you are giving them room to overtake without crossing over the line in the middle of the road.

On another note in high winds one day I ended up with 4 cars passing each other at the same time. 2 cars going each way a very scary experience. (ambulance coming towards me I moved left to let ambulance overtake car coming meeting me and car behind me overtakes me)

RustyNut

FunLover18 wrote: »

On a similar note however how do people feel about letting people pass when you're doing the speed limit. I've often found myself doing 100 on national roads and had someone right up me hole. Half of me thinks I shouldn't enable the driver to break the law and endanger lives and the other half thinks he/she's going to pass you out anyway, may as well let them do it as safely as you can. You also won't relax properly while they're their glaring at you in your rear view. Thoughts?

As soon as its safe let them on. Trying to control other drivers behaviour is a mugs game which will eventually end badly.

If someone is thick enough to be on your bumper at the speed limit then you are better off with them gone about their business and not being a threat to your safety.

Or maby they are in a genuine hurry, left the gas on, bringing someone to hospital etc either way, let them on, turn up the tunes, relax and arive alive.

My thoughts.

Days 298

FunLover18 wrote: »

I do think it's quite inconsiderate to not let people past, especially when on a national road there can be plenty of room to do so.

I don't like to generalise but I've found the slowest drivers to be women and old people. I think the oldies are generally just over cautious and I often feel that some female drivers feel they have a reputation to uphold. In the same way that there is a pressure on women to be glamorous and slim, etc, I think there's a similar societal pressure on them to be "safe" drivers. That's just an impression I get though.

As people have pointed out keeping up with traffic etc is a vital part of passing the driving test, and I do find it frustrating.

On a similar note however how do people feel about letting people pass when you're doing the speed limit. I've often found myself doing 100 on national roads and had someone right up me hole. Half of me thinks I shouldn't enable the driver to break the law and endanger lives and the other half thinks he/she's going to pass you out anyway, may as well let them do it as safely as you can. You also won't relax properly while they're their glaring at you in your rear view. Thoughts?

Your neither enabling or stopping them. Leave them past. If they are going to be in an accident you should be as far away if you think speeding is dangerous driving. If you try to slow them down you are the one they hit.

If your on a dual carriage way in the right lane pull over if you see someone approaching from behind. Your not the guards. You can neither enable others to drive dangerously or enforce the RoTR.

miss no stars

goalscoringhero wrote: »

I think we're lacking a bit of context before making such general statements.



I always drive 50km/h or less on this road, given the speed limit of 80km/h:
http://goo.gl/maps/MOCPh

There's houses around with gardens along the road. It narrows down so much that two cars cannot pass each other without pulling in and waiting for the other car to pass.

Bad practice? I don't think so. As someone pointed out before, the speed limit is not a target.

You left out the bit where I said that the speed limit should be reached if its safe to

J_R

Hi,

I wrote

Originally Posted by J_R

People who drive in the center of the road cause accidents. Hampered and delayed motorists get frustrated and then may take a reckless gamble to overtake.

RustyNut wrote: »

Wrong, people who drive well below the speed limit in the middle of the road are bad inconsiderate drivers who pi55 people off.

People who when pi55ed off by other drivers overtake dangerously are dangerous drivers who cause accidents.

So, what is wrong with my statement. ? Are you saying that they do not cause accidents, that is completely the fault of the other drivers who may be forced to dangerously overtake ?

Consider this scenario, the driver of the car that the bad inconsiderate driver is impeding may be late for a lunch appointment, however instead he may be rushing a dying child to hospital, wife might be having a baby on the back seat, anything is possible.

He is a normal sane safe driver but now for the first time in his life he must take a gamble, attempt a manoeuvre that he knows is dangerous.. Now, who has CAUSED him to make that decision ?

Or he could of course not take a chance, listen to the wife scream in the back/watch his child bleed to death.

RustyNut

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

I wrote




So, what is wrong with my statement. ? Are you saying that they do not cause accidents, that is completely the fault of the other drivers who may be forced to dangerously overtake ?

Consider this scenario, the driver of the car that the bad inconsiderate driver is impeding may be late for a lunch appointment, however instead he may be rushing a dying child to hospital, wife might be having a baby on the back seat, anything is possible.

He is a normal sane safe driver but now for the first time in his life he must take a gamble, attempt a manoeuvre that he knows is dangerous.. Now, who has CAUSED him to make that decision ?

Or he could of course not take a chance, listen to the wife scream in the back/watch his child bleed to death.

Even in the extreme example above the normally safe driver is the only person responsible for the decisions that they take behind the wheel.

If they overtake dangerously and are involved in an accident then they alone are responsible for the accident.

One persons bad driving does not excuse dangerous driving by someon else, ever.

How can somebody in another vehicle force me to endanger myself and other road users. They might irritate me and stress me out but they are not responsible for my actions.

As a safe driver you should deal with what ever you encounter on the road in a safe maner, no excuses.

In the example above, if it all went wrong and the overtaker has a head on and the wife and kid are killed and the person he hits are killed who will be facing dangerous driving causing death?

J_R

RustyNut wrote: »

Even in the extreme example above the normally safe driver is the only person responsible for the decisions that they take behind the wheel.

If they overtake dangerously and are involved in an accident then they alone are responsible for the accident.

One persons bad driving does not excuse dangerous driving by someon else, ever.

How can somebody in another vehicle force me to endanger myself and other road users. They might irritate me and stress me out but they are not responsible for my actions.

As a safe driver you should deal with what ever you encounter on the road in a safe maner, no excuses.

In the example above, if it all went wrong and the overtaker has a head on and the wife and kid are killed and the person he hits are killed who will be facing dangerous driving causing death?

Hi,

Of course a person is responsible for his own actions, never said otherwise. However a person is also responsible for the consequences of his actions.

So, suppose you are driving in the middle of the road and a speeding car comes up behind. (With dying child, woman in labour, whatever). You do not move over as you said in the post I "Thanked", instead you stay in the center and turn up the ipad to drown out the sound of the blaring horn behind.

The desperate distraught father then grits his teeth takes a chance, it does not pay off, hits another car head on - dead broken bleeding bodies and limbs all over the road.

So, have I got this right ? it was all his fault. You caused nothing, you bear no responsibility whatsoever. You were only being a little inconsiderate. He took the decision to endanger himself, his dying child, other road users all by himself. You can go home and have a good nights sleep. ? And drive in the center of the road on the way to work next morning ?

When a person chooses to drive in the center of the road they have also chosen all the consequences of that action If not legally at least morally.

Final word. If there was no inconsiderate fool in the center of the road there would be no need for any dangerous overtaking. Therefore I stand by my first statement. Driving in the center of the road can cause accidents.

To the OP. Telephone the Traffic Corps, give details, have a chat lets know what they have to say,

RustyNut

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Of course a person is responsible for his own actions, never said otherwise. However a person is also responsible for the consequences of his actions.

So, suppose you are driving in the middle of the road and a speeding car comes up behind. (With dying child, woman in labour, whatever). You do not move over as you said in the post I "Thanked", instead you stay in the center and turn up the ipad to drown out the sound of the blaring horn behind.

The desperate distraught father then grits his teeth takes a chance, it does not pay off, hits another car head on - dead broken bleeding bodies and limbs all over the road.

So, have I got this right ? it was all his fault. You caused nothing, you bear no responsibility whatsoever. You were only being a little inconsiderate. He took the decision to endanger himself, his dying child, other road users all by himself. You can go home and have a good nights sleep. ? And drive in the center of the road on the way to work next morning ?

When a person chooses to drive in the center of the road they have also chosen all the consequences of that action If not legally at least morally.

Final word. If there was no inconsiderate fool in the center of the road there would be no need for any dangerous overtaking. Therefore I stand by my first statement. Driving in the center of the road can cause accidents.

To the OP. Telephone the Traffic Corps, give details, have a chat lets know what they have to say,

Ok you have put me in the driver seat of the hypothetical car that is holding up the normaly safe driver who has little johney bleeding out in the back seat.

We have all ready established that I am normally a considerate driver who would usually let faster traffic pass if it is safe to do so from the post above. However on this occasion while you are rushing little johney to A&E and who could blame you for wanting to get a hurry on I am on the way home from another hospital with Granddad in the back seat not long after having his new hip fitted. He is in a lot of discomfort and any bumping or jarring is extremely painfull for him and he also needs a loo. No less plausible a scenario than you with little johney.

My plan to deal with this situation is to drive at a speed which allows me to avoid in as much as possable any pot holes bumps or sudden control inputs. Now the best way for me to do this is to slow down and stay away from the verge/sholder in order to keep grandad comfortable.

When I look in my mirror I see somebody speeding up behind me driving like a loon and think to myself F him, usually I would be into the sholder an let him on but not this time.

So the consequences of my action is to slow you down and while that is not any good for johney it puts the ball in your court and you must make a decision on how you deal with the situation as it is presented to you.

You decide to overtake on a blind crest and slam into an on coming car resulting in carnage.

As I see it, the sole cause and responsibility for the carnage rests with the driver who decides to overtake dangerously. There was no danger to anybody (except little johney) untill you pulled dangerously accross the road.

If you think I somehow caused the crash then what should I have done differently to avoid it?. You could have stayed within the law and not overtaken dangerously there for avoiding the crash.

There is never any need for dangerous overtaking.

runawaybishop

Mayo had a campaign last year encouraging slower drivers to pull over

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0723/ireland/campaign-targets-dangers-caused-by-very-slow-drivers-201696.html

I can't tell you why

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Once the OP is not doing more than 100km/h, they are technically not going too fast. And I am pretty sure that ALL driving instructors inform their students that driving too slow can be just as dangerous as driving too fast. Especially in a concealed area like a hill where you might think there is only one car in front of you, but it turns out to be more.

If someone drives consistently at a 100k speed limit they are technically driving to fast on many roads with a 100k speed limit. You are looking at one law, the speed limit. There are laws for dangerous driving. There are limitations of the car and the driver to consider also.

The question I suggested is that maybe the OP is driving too fast ( while still being below the speed limit ). It is a question that won't get answered here. But is a possibility all the same.

ALL driving instructors do not and should not "inform their students that driving too slow can be just as dangerous as driving too fast". Driving too slow can be dangerous and cause problems. But driving too fast is vastly more dangerous. In the example you gave, if you are talking about overtaking, I would suggest driving slower and not trying to overtake when you cannot see.

John Mason

my neighbour drives everywhere at 20km/h.

one day she is going to cause a huge accident. she also drives with no lights at night. :eek:

i wonder if it is her you are stuck behind?

kaji

bumper234 wrote: »

This is the speed limit not a suggestion, if you are getting stuck behind the same car EVERY morning would it not be better to just leave home 5 minutes earlier?

OP here. Obviously it's not the same driver that I'm getting stuck behind. The road I'm travelling on is a straight national road with not many houses on it, the speed limit is 100km, and I'm happy if traffic moves at 80km. However, I find that I keep encountering drivers (not just in front of me, but also holding up others) who are driving at around 50-60km on these roads and the traffic just piles up then forcing people to try to overtake on busy roads which will eventually cause accidents. These slow drivers also seem very unaware and don't indicate, etc. Wondering how they are let on the roads at all to be honest. And no, I'm not a boy racer.

miss no stars

Darragh D ADI wrote: »

The question I suggested is that maybe the OP is driving too fast ( while still being below the speed limit ). It is a question that won't get answered here. But is a possibility all the same.

Let's see... A very small number of drivers holding up a large number of drivers.

Occam's razor would say that it's more likely that a small number are driving badly (not making enough progress) than the majority are driving badly.

I can't tell you why

Ockham would say you're basing this on one person's opinion. There are many variables. People will tend to catch up with a vehicle they see ahead, but not necessarily want to drive any faster. Some vehicles need to drive slower; due to age or load. Some people need to drive slower; due to age, ability, alertness.

miss no stars wrote: »

Let's see... A very small number of drivers holding up a large number of drivers.

Occam's razor would say that it's more likely that a small number are driving badly (not making enough progress) than the majority are driving badly.

CiniO

It's actually a pity that Ireland doesn't have a law against doing it (driving too slow).
In most countries over EU, there is an penalty point attracting offence called "driving at speed inconveniencing other road users". There should be one like that in Ireland as well.

whomitconcerns

my aunt never drives over 50kph whether on 80kph road or 100kph road...I have been caught behind her more than once before and its infuriating, she will actually stick to the middle of the road also, and has no time for anyone who wants to get by!.

Due to this she has been stopped on suspicion of drink driving (is teetotal) by the police more than once. I guess thats all they can do to politely tell you to speed up.

beauf

kaji wrote: »

O.... forcing people to try to overtake....

They are not forced to overtake. They choose to do so.

J_R wrote: »

... If there was no inconsiderate fool in the center of the road there would be no need for any dangerous overtaking. Therefore I stand by my first statement. Driving in the center of the road can cause accidents. ...

I assume you mean center lane? There no need for dangerous overtaking ever. If you have to do it dangerously you're doing it wrong. Certainly the Garda should warn drivers if they are driving too slowly.

Hard to get stats on it. The only figures I could get were not very detailed or accurate. In the UK there are around 200,000 thousand accidents per year (that cause causalities) so theres more than if you include those without injuries. They "Transport Department figures show 143 accidents a year are caused directly by slow drivers" dailymail. Where these figures come from I don't know. no figure of deaths caused by this. Theres also these for comparison.

Speeding
Around 400 people a year are killed in crashes in which someone exceeds the speed limit or drives too fast for the conditions.

Drink Driving
Around 280 people die a year in crashes in which someone was over the legal drink drive limit.

Seat Belt Wearing
Around 200 lives each year could be saved if everyone always wore their seat belt.

Careless Driving
More than 300 deaths a year involve someone being "careless, reckless or in a hurry", and a further 120 involve "aggressive driving".

At-work
Around one third of fatal and serious road crashes involve someone who was at work.

Inexperience
More than 400 people are killed in crashes involving young car drivers aged 17 to 24 years, every year, including over 150 young drivers, 90 passengers and more than 170 other road users.

While slow drivers is a very popular grip is doesn't seem to be factor in the stats, perhaps because its not recorded accurate who knows. But just because something is popular doesn't mean its statistically significant in the bigger bigger.

meathstevie

whomitconcerns wrote: »

my aunt never drives over 50kph whether on 80kph road or 100kph road...I have been caught behind her more than once before and its infuriating, she will actually stick to the middle of the road also, and has no time for anyone who wants to get by!.

Due to this she has been stopped on suspicion of drink driving (is teetotal) by the police more than once. I guess thats all they can do to politely tell you to speed up.

Or prosecute her for careless driving or apply to the issuing authority to have her licence revoked on grounds of incompetence which is the kick up the back side she probably needs to wise up.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0052.html#sec52



Careless driving.


52.—(1) A person shall not drive a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the place.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

jimdublin15

Driving unreasonably slow on the main road can be irritating.
It's however up to the driver to drive safely according to the road conditions and some roads the speed limit is too high.

However about two weeks ago I had some guy in front of me (Looked about 30 to 35 years old when I passed him)
He slowed right down on approach to join the M50, and continued to slow until he was doing 18/20 KM and suddenly moved into the M50 lane whilst it was busy with traffic that was doing 90-100 KM.

Totally Mad seeing the driver do this, and it's not the first time I see some mad slow driver do this, however on this occasion to make it worse he caused a number of drivers to slam on the breaks as the difference between someone doing 20 and the rest traveling at a 100 KM is huge.
Thankfully nobody was hurt (I think) as he by this time happily continued to do 20 km in the middle lane holding up the M50.

At times i get the feeling that slow drivers might have a bit of the old God complex, feeling they can control the situation and everyone else around them.

My own feelings are that this type of slow drivers are simply to dangerous to have on roads for themselves and others. As such, they should be stopped for there own safety. Ill be honest this latest incident has promoted me to install a good camera in the car so next time it will be recorded and I can report it and/or youtube them.

wandatowell

I drive at 80km/hr on the dual carraige way.

People overtake me all the time and it doesnt seem to bother them.

Witcher

wandatowell wrote: »

I drive at 80km/hr on the dual carraige way.

People overtake me all the time and it doesnt seem to bother them.

Why though? I don't understand setting your own personal limit..did you just close your eyes and put a finger on the speedo randomly and say 'Ah 80 it is'?

'Doesn't seem to bother them'..what do you expect them to do to express their displeasure?

FunLover18

wandatowell wrote: »

I drive at 80km/hr on the dual carraige way.

People overtake me all the time and it doesnt seem to bother them.

As long as you do it in the slow lane, I don't see a problem with this.

meathstevie

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Driving unreasonably slow on the main road can be irritating.
It's however up to the driver to drive safely according to the road conditions and some roads the speed limit is too high.

However about two weeks ago I had some guy in front of me (Looked about 30 to 35 years old when I passed him)
He slowed right down on approach to join the M50, and continued to slow until he was doing 18/20 KM and suddenly moved into the M50 lane whilst it was busy with traffic that was doing 90-100 KM.

Totally Mad seeing the driver do this, and it's not the first time I see some mad slow driver do this, however on this occasion to make it worse he caused a number of drivers to slam on the breaks as the difference between someone doing 20 and the rest traveling at a 100 KM is huge.
Thankfully nobody was hurt (I think) as he by this time happily continued to do 20 km in the middle lane holding up the M50.

At times i get the feeling that slow drivers might have a bit of the old God complex, feeling they can control the situation and everyone else around them.

My own feelings are that this type of slow drivers are simply to dangerous to have on roads for themselves and others. As such, they should be stopped for there own safety. Ill be honest this latest incident has promoted me to install a good camera in the car so next time it will be recorded and I can report it and/or youtube them.

That's a prime example of dangerous driving, not careless driving. In my opinion joining the motorway at such speeds is far more dangerous than driving down the same motorway at 150km/h.

J_R

beauf wrote: »

They are not forced to overtake. They choose to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_R View Post
... If there was no inconsiderate fool in the center of the road there would be no need for any dangerous overtaking. Therefore I stand by my first statement. Driving in the center of the road can cause accidents. ...

I assume you mean center lane? There no need for dangerous overtaking ever. If you have to do it dangerously you're doing it wrong. Certainly the Garda should warn drivers if they are driving too slowly.
.

Hi,

No I do not, I mean road. There can only be lanes if there are two or more, marked as such and going in the same direction. However a small narrow road may be called a lane - such as a lane way to a house. Otherwise it is a road.

I had an Eureka moment when reading your reply yesterday. Perhaps the instructors who teach their pupils to " position themselves in the center of their lane" are mixed up in the meanings of road and lane. In a lane you drive in the center, on a road you drive FROM the left. The LAW say so.

Following an accident, to help appropriate blame as to who was at fault, the cops measure the position of the point of impact from the left hand sides of the road. The person whose car was nearest their left gets a few extra brownie points. The cops do not measure from some imaginery line in the center of a "lane"

And there is no problem whatsoever with people driving slowly. Provided they position themselves correctly - from the left.

GFish

J_R wrote: »

In a lane you drive in the center, on a road you drive FROM the left. The LAW say so.

Cool! You can solve much of this discussion - Which 'LAW' says that?

J_R wrote: »

Following an accident, to help appropriate blame as to who was at fault, the cops measure the position of the point of impact from the left hand sides of the road. The person whose car was nearest their left gets a few extra brownie points.

Ah go on - you're kidding us now!

J_R wrote: »

And there is no problem whatsoever with people driving slowly. Provided they position themselves correctly - from the left.

Are you a Guard (or even a Cop), a Legislator, a solicitor, or an ....... - ah, never mind :rolleyes:

J_R

GFish wrote: »

Cool! You can solve much of this discussion - Which 'LAW' says that?



Ah go on - you're kidding us now!



Are you a Guard (or even a Cop), a Legislator, a solicitor, or an ....... - ah, never mind :rolleyes:

This law.

S.I. No. 182/1997 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
Drive on Left[/B]

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

Alanstrainor

Thread cleaned. Keep it civil people, argue your point without attacking the poster please.

Days 298

If you drive slow on the main road be courteous to non tail gating drivers and allow them overtake ever now and again when it's safe.

If they are tailgating live by the phrase "the closer you come the slower I go". Nothing worse than being in a go safe zone with an idiot right up your hole when you are at the limit. Generally a tap of the brake lights works the threat. Knowing how to trigger the brake lights without braking is a handy thing to tell them stay back.

the_syco

Days 298 wrote: »

If they are tailgating live by the phrase "the closer you come the slower I go". Nothing worse than being in a go safe zone with an idiot right up your hole when you are at the limit. Generally a tap of the brake lights works the threat. Knowing how to trigger the brake lights without braking is a handy thing to tell them stay back.

Ensure you don't mind having your car written off if you accidentally brake too hard. Also pray the person behind doesn't have a dashcam recording you braking for no apparent reason.

By all means slow down if you think someone is tailgating, but tapping on the brakes because someone is close to you is stupid.

GFish

We have a mod here already.

Any chance we can get a driving instructor to clear up some of this DIY Law interpretation and driving enforcement?

For now, I think I'll stay off the roads.

djflawless

Its a limit not a target

djflawless

GFish wrote: »

Oh dear, Oh dear .
Are you even half way serious?
How did we ever let gobs***es like this have licences?
:eek:

Licence amnesty???

GFish

djflawless wrote: »

Licence amnesty???

Hmm - possibly - though idiots still get licences somehow.

Isn't it scary to know that people who drive like that are still out there on the same roads as us and our families?

Days 298

the_syco wrote: »

Ensure you don't mind having your car written off if you accidentally brake too hard. Also pray the person behind doesn't have a dashcam recording you braking for no apparent reason.

By all means slow down if you think someone is tailgating, but tapping on the brakes because someone is close to you is stupid.

Not brake checking, simple slowing down a bit and getting the brake lights on. I realise my phrasing was misleading.
There is nothing illegal with deciding to slow down, the Gards encourage it. A dashcam may not see a hazard. If a driver sees anything that they are unsure about they may edge with the air of caution and slow down. Its up to the driver behind to ensure a safe distance. If you are driving so close that if a serious hazard meaning the driver infront of you has to brake hard or at all you will hit the car infront you are tailgating. Gards wont have much sympathy for you. Dash cam wont be referred to as the be all and end all.

But yeah dont brake check a guy is true. But also keep your distance is true also.

J_R

Hi,

here is an iteresting news item.

Judge criticises slow drivers in careless driving case

A district court judge has launched a broadside against slow drivers in a case where a man was charged with undertaking three cars on the N5 at Bohola.
Philip Storey of 1, Aiden Street Rear, Kiltimagh was before Castlebar District Court charged with careless driving after Gardaí received a report of him undertaking (by-passing cars on the inside) three cars at Lisgorman, Bohola, at 1.15pm on November 13 last.
His solicitor, Lynda Lenihan, said the cars in front were driving slowly and he became impatient. She added that Storey wished to apologise for his actions.

and a follow up item

Slow down, speed up or pull over?

But my point is this, Philip Storey had enough space to undertake without mishap on the left. If those cars had been driving on the left as per the law he would have been able to safely and legally overtake.

And the law again, with link, this time without any colouring as a poster seems to have got confused with my first posting

ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997

Drive on Left

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

GFish wrote: »

We have a mod here already.

Any chance we can get a driving instructor to clear up some of this DIY Law interpretation and driving enforcement?

For now, I think I'll stay off the roads.

The only reason I am posting on here is to try and convince some instructors to stop teaching their pupils tro drive in the middle of the road

For example this:-

lycan238 wrote: »

I normally would drive to the left on a main road however I was advised by a driving instructor that this may lead to a driver behind taking more of a risk to go by as you are giving them room to overtake without crossing over the line in the middle of the road.

That reasoning, advice is badly flawed.
1. If the driver overtaking was that bad that he would chance hitting a car rather than cross a white line he is an accident waiting to happen and I would give him as much space as possible.
2 The instructor is encouraging an inexperienced driver to police the road. No matter how experienced nobody (except the Garda) should ever attempt to control anybody else on the road. If you do and an incident occurs you have contributed to that incident and may be held partly or wholly responsible.
3. By moving out you have opened up your left, with its massive blind area. See first link.
4. If there is a car waiting to "squeeze" past he is blocking your view of perhaps a greater danger behind, a couple of boy racers, ambulance whatever
5. And the law says you should allow traffic to overake, not hinder.

Obey the ROTR and your own common sense, never mind the instructors homespun philosophy. Or ask him for his official source.