Athletics Ireland funding

RayCun

story in the IT this morning

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/recently-established-new-events-has-athletics-ireland-optimistic-about-future-funding-1.1559448

“We’ve had three major events this year, which have been hugely valuable to us. Last month we staged the Grant Thornton Corporate 5km Team Challenge, in Dublin. We doubled the entry from last year, to 750 teams of four. That has a sound sponsorship and we’d hope to grow that again next year.
“The same with the Rock n Roll franchise, which we’ve brought into our national half marathon, staged in Dublin in August. The Competitor Group, who manage those races, pay us a fee, and again that’s hugely valuable for us. We also have the Samsung Night Run, in April, and the plan is to take that to other cities in 2014, such as Cork, starting at the same time in Dublin.

‘Funding opportunity’
“We also have the Remembrance Run coming up, next month, and that’s another funding opportunity for us. And we have ambitions to take these events outside of Dublin as much as possible too. All of these provide significant funding for the coaching structures and development of the sport.”

RacoonQueen

What about the Great Ireland Run?

Krusty_Clown

I thought the Remembrance run was for charity. Learn something new every day.

This will again be a Special Day in the Phoenix Park- a day to celebrate our own gift of days and fullness of health. The event will also benefit grass roots athletics in Ireland- especially the young aspiring stars of the future. Athletics Ireland now has over 40,000 members-of which the biggest proportion are juvenile athletes who need every support possible.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I thought the Remembrance run was for charity. Learn something new every day.

It's the usual pay-us-the-entry-fee-and-raise-money-for-charity thing

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

It's the usual pay-us-the-entry-fee-and-raise-money-for-charity thing

At least the funding is ear-marked for 'the young aspiring stars of the future', rather than going into the AAI bucket. Right? Right?!
To be fair, it's quite clear from the Remembrance page where the funding is going. Just my own ignorance in assuming that proceeds went to charity.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

At least the funding is ear-marked for 'the young aspiring stars of the future', rather than going into the AAI bucket. Right? Right?!
To be fair, it's quite clear from the Remembrance page where the funding is going. Just my own ignorance in assuming that proceeds went to charity.

:pac:
It only says the event will benefit grassroots athletics, of whom the largest group is kids
They do make a big deal of the remembrance thing, in fairness, and OH entered the race under no illusions about where the charity money would be coming from

Condo131

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

At least the funding is ear-marked for 'the young aspiring stars of the future', rather than going into the AAI bucket. Right? Right?!
To be fair, it's quite clear from the Remembrance page where the funding is going. Just my own ignorance in assuming that proceeds went to charity.

I'm looking at the official 6"x4" flyer and it says nothing about where the money is going. I have shown it to several (non athletics) people, including fundraisers. All got the impression (wrongly) that the proceeds were going to charity.

Wrt the other runs, yeah, there was a presentation to Cork AI Co Board about one of these races, Samsung, coming to Cork. One question was allowed (though I managed to get in several around the same core issue). That question aimed at finding out who exactly was running the race and where the money was routed. Despite coming at it from several angles, a clear answer was not forthcoming. we were told that "Samsung are losing money on this" ...when ever did a sponsor expect to make money? Titan Marketing are involved with the event and AI are "receiving a fee" for the event. In short we were unable to find out exactly who is the ultimate beneficiary/owner of the event. Clearly it is not AI, because they are only getting a fee.

As many of you will be aware, I have "a bee in my bonnet" about carpetbagger races, where entry fees are high and prize funds are sparse. (retail value of this year's six prizes in the Samsung was approx. €2500...I'm guessing the cost to Samsung was about €800) AI appear to be going headlong for this model.

The jaws of those making the presentation dropped when they heard that another Cork event is in the planning stages...just four days after their Cork Samsung: a Half Mar, costing €20, with chip timing and a tech top, and €3 to 4k in prizes (including full spread of category prizes). Samsung is to be €30 for a 10k, with tech top and just the six prizes.

I think we'll let the punter decide.

Kurt Godel

I love reading your posts Condo. Great to see someone asking the right questions, and not willing to join the mass kowtow to the word "Charity". Keep up the good work!

PVincent

I am on record saying that these races have a place. ( attracting new runners into the sport). Also running clubs can make much needed funds for their own clubs by marshalling etc ...and AAI do make reasonable money for not a lot of effort. I do admire Condo and we agree on a lot . Just interested in people's views in how AAI can generate their own funds in other ways. Personally I dont see them with the resources or where with all to organise anything that would generate this sort of money ... Has anyone ideas because it's up to us in the clubs to push if there is a better way ...

RacoonQueen

PVincent wrote: »

I am on record saying that these races have a place. ( attracting new runners into the sport). Also running clubs can make much needed funds for their own clubs by marshalling etc ...and AAI do make reasonable money for not a lot of effort. I do admire Condo and we agree on a lot . Just interested in people's views in how AAI can generate their own funds in other ways. Personally I dont see them with the resources or where with all to organise anything that would generate this sort of money ... Has anyone ideas because it's up to us in the clubs to push if there is a better way ...

Catch 22 isn't it? The races will turn your stomach but you know that you get money for each marshall you have out there and money goes to AI(where it goes from there who knows)

Condo131

PVincent wrote: »

Personally I dont see them with the resources or where with all to organise anything that would generate this sort of money ... Has anyone ideas because it's up to us in the clubs to push if there is a better way ...

Jus a few points:
a) These events are, effectively, third party events, which AI is getting a fee (appears to be approx. 15%) for supplying the very resources without which the event could not be run.
b) Why should a third party walk away with very significantly more than the AI (including the club's fees for marshalls) is getting?
c) One of the main counters to AI organising directly is that they don't have the expertise to market these events. I accept this...however...given the amount of "swag" the third party organisers are walking away with, there is massive scope for AI to employ a marketing firm to do the job for them. In addition, given the number of races AI is now getting into in this manner, the is definitely scope for AI employing their own event management company.

Question: If the event management companies are running these events, with AI just getting a (admittedly hefty) fee (€50k for R&R), who exactly is running Athletics in ireland?

In my opinion there is a better way: most clubs do not, on their own, have the resources to run these bigger events, however joint ventures, solely for event purposes, may be the way to go. This is an area we are exploring. I believe that clubs can run better events, while simultaneously giving better value to the punter, than the carpetbaggers.

We have huge resources in our clubs, lets use it!

nerraw1111

Question B does appear puzzling.

But perhaps they AAI don't take on any of the risks involved, should it not sell out etc.

Using different events, gives the impression of new and different events. Would Joe Public be arsed running the AAI hm over the rock n roll, random 10k over Samsung etc?

On one hand, the AAi are getting a lot of money for very little input while ensuring AAI members see the benefits, cash to clubs, cheaper entry fees etc.

Should they be in the business of organising races? It's an interesting debate.

PVincent

Do you still think that clubs which join forces have the ability, time and commitment to put on events like the samsung or the grant thorton . It's a big ask in the current environment and a big risk . And if run by clubs will it attract the runners that will really make it a profitable event ... Wil we have the ' pull' to get these bigger races on the streets of say dublin ...very tough call for the clubs to make, and a huge amount of time and effort needed to get any race off the ground these days ... I don't know the answers to any of these conundrums , and part of the debate must centre on whether AAI or the clubs involved in the background of some of these 'carpetbaggers events' can actually negotiate better deals ...for years one thing I always felt the AAI could do reasonably easily would be to have a 'Mass cross country event ' ..they have it in the uk and it's hugely successful. We have had a couple of events in recent years at racecourses so the venue would not be an issue. And people are willing to try something different these days .

ger664

There is a massive opportunity been missed here. The AAI does not need to sell the silverware but can still still retain the ability to skim some profit from these races. Part of granting a permit all non AAI members running must pay a fee/licence something similar to entering a triathlon.
These would get some ready cash and long term might getting some regular runners to look at joining local clubs.

RayCun

ger664 wrote: »

There is a massive opportunity been missed here. The AAI does not need to sell the silverware but can still still retain the ability to skim some profit from these races. Part of granting a permit all non AAI members running must pay a fee/licence something similar to entering a triathlon.
These would get some ready cash and long term might getting some regular runners to look at joining local clubs.

But how do you enforce that?
What happens if a race organiser says "feck that, I'm not charging non-AAI members extra to run, and I'm not paying over a few hundred euro for a race licence".

gigtown

Would love to see a Night Run like Samsung in Limerick.

ger664

RayCun wrote: »

But how do you enforce that?
What happens if a race organiser says "feck that, I'm not charging non-AAI members extra to run, and I'm not paying over a few hundred euro for a race licence".

Currently the granting of a permit to a charitable or commercial entity must have an AAI Representative on the organising committee. This person would be able to oversee that extra funds where collected and accounted for.

What to stop race not bothering to get a permit, not much really but the AAI could clampdown and fine AAI members who run in such events. Will that really have an effect ? Probably not as maybe 5% of runners in these events are AAI members.

On looking at the current AAI permit procedures and charges what is clear is that an overhaul of this procedure is required but thats for another thread.

ger664

gigtown wrote: »

Would love to see a Night Run like Samsung in Limerick.

Would hate to see it as the clubs 10K is on the Friday before and would kill our numbers currently ~800.

gigtown

Is it a night run through Limerick City Centre? Because that would be awesome.

RayCun

Condo131 wrote: »

Question: If the event management companies are running these events, with AI just getting a (admittedly hefty) fee (€50k for R&R), who exactly is running Athletics in ireland?

That invites the question - to what extent is the Samsung 10k an important part of athletics in Ireland?

There have been plenty of threads in the past about the role of the AAI in roadrunning/recreational running - and whether it should have any role at all. There's a good case to be made that the only events the AAI should worry about are competitions - track and field, cross country, national road competition. They could get involved more in regular road races - helping clubs organise races, more stringent checks before licencing races, etc - but that would be a distraction from their core responsibilities of developing juvenile involvement, supporting elite athletes, coaching and coach development.

Anyway, jesus, look at the AAI's record on working out competition results. :eek: I don't know that I'd be inviting them to help me run a race :pac:

Condo131

ger664 wrote: »

Would hate to see it as the clubs 10K is on the Friday before and would kill our numbers currently ~800.

Yes, I see, from this year's calendar, that the few days either side of the date for Samsung are quite busy. Sounds like your race is the Six-Mile Bridge 10k - looks like good value @ €18, with a tech top & proceeds going to charity. Compare with €30 for Samsung, with nil going to charity and all proceeds going out of the region.

Given that the AI are likely to "parachute" this in no matter what local athletics wants, probably the best strategy is for the local clubs to provide all the stewards required. The organisers are offering €30/head for this. Then let the clubs use the same money to subsidise their own races. I'd also suggest pushing the value aspect and that everything is benefiting local athletics & charities (without even mentioning the "other race"....why publicise the "competition" more than it merits), i.e. differentiate.

Club races provide excellent value and, in general, have first class organisation, whereas very many of the commercials leave an awful lot to be desired. In general, clubs are very poor at publicising and promoting our events...we all need to move up a gear, giving far more consideration to publicity. I reckon that we're far too afraid of becoming "too big", Leaving the commercials take over is squeezing clubs for both dates and punters.

The gathering momentum of increasing commercial races is, I believe a major threat to club races. Are we going to roll over and let it happen? I hope not.

Wrt a night run in Limerick, I'm not familiar with the city, but is it really feasible?

I don't believe that a night 10k in Cork is feasible. Yes I know there is already a 4 lap charity 10k in Cork, but a practical 10k non-overlap isn't realistic, without shutting down the city. The aforementioned 10k needs about 100 marshalls to just steward the course. A non-overlap 10k in Cork is likely to need close to 4 times that - that'd go a long way towards subsidising our own races. It'll be interesting to see the proposed route.

RayCun

Condo131 wrote: »

I don't believe that a night 10k in Cork is feasible. Yes I know there is already a 4 lap charity 10k in Cork, but a practical 10k non-overlap isn't realistic, without shutting down the city.

have you seen the route of the Dublin 10k? In out left right up down, everything except spinning on the spot

gigtown

I see this club vs corporate argument everywhere. I so very rarely see it from a casual runner's point of view.

Speaking personally (I'm sick of people appointing themselves as representatives) can't I enjoy both?

An event in SMB sounds great. It also sounds like I'm going to finish in the bottom half of the race in an event small enough to make me feel self conscious about it. But if it's in my local area and I know some people involved then I might just chance it. And I feel like it's worth the money.
All large scale events have a corporate element. But I don't see them as corporate. I see them as large scale running events. I see strength in numbers, I see my mates joining me for the craic, I see a bit of a show going on around it and I like that. I see a city being closed down so I can run through it. And I feel like it's worth the money.

Night run in Limerick? 100% Feasible. Can't see why Cork would be any different than Limerick. Or Dublin.

gigtown

RayCun wrote: »

have you seen the route of the Dublin 10k? In out left right up down, everything except spinning on the spot

Some craic though.

Condo131

gigtown wrote: »

I see this club vs corporate argument everywhere. I so very rarely see it from a casual runner's point of view.

a) Its not really club Vs corporate, its vs corporate taking excessive profit and, in particular, for me, masquerading as a charity event. Yes we rarely see an informed casual view, probably because the casual person is...well, casual.;)

gigtown wrote: »

Speaking personally (I'm sick of people appointing themselves as representatives) can't I enjoy both?

If that's a swipe at the posters here, I think, if you read between the lines, that many of the posters are representatives. I wear several hats.

gigtown wrote: »

An event in SMB sounds great. It also sounds like I'm going to finish in the bottom half of the race in an event small enough to make me feel self conscious about it. But if it's in my local area and I know some people involved then I might just chance it. And I feel like it's worth the money.
All large scale events have a corporate element. But I don't see them as corporate. I see them as large scale running events. I see strength in numbers, I see my mates joining me for the craic, I see a bit of a show going on around it and I like that. I see a city being closed down so I can run through it. And I feel like it's worth the money.

Your view reflects that of the person that I reckon the club runs need to capture and include more. Yes the corporates do a great marketing job and hype things up, but, in the end they will charge you twice as much, or more, as you will be pay for a club race ...and give you less in return! One of my main points is that we need to get our message across to runners who feel similarly to you. I don't know if you've gone for any of the "regular" club runs, if not, why not give it a try? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the 'craic'. Bottom half?....don't worry about it....I was 3rd last in a race last Sunday. <morto>, but glad I ran!

gigtown wrote: »

Can't see why Cork would be any different than Limerick. Or Dublin.

Cork is built on an island, so any route is going to be problematic. The main problem with a city centre route is access for emergency services and, in particular obstruction of routes servicing hospitals. I can't see a practical route that doesn't compromise these, except a multi-lap event, which for race purposes would be a major hazard.