Court granted access to grandparents

TheminxIRL

To make a long story short, my brother died suddenly and since then his wife (who hated us from the time they met because we arent all well to do like her) has blanked our family and will not allow us to visit.

They have two kids who are only 8 and 5 and we adore them and they us.

Us siblings are taking offence to her behaviour and one brother in particular is of the opinion if that's how she wants it then that's what she gets.

My sister wants to see the kids but away from my SIL,I want to see the kids and would love to make amends with my SIL for peace sake and plus she was very good to my brother that died and had three hard years of illness.

My mother is a different story, its like apart from wanting to see her grandkids, its like she has a need to HAVE to see them. I suppose its all she has left of her son.

Just wondering if anyone on here has had to go to court or know someone who has gone to court to try get court ordered access times?

It will have to go down this route unfortunately because she will not give in nor consider what she is doing to my mother who is in her 70's and not well after having a stroke last year.


Apart from grieving for her son, she is stressed and worried she wont see the kids again so now we are all stressed and worried that she will make herself sick again over it.

Any advice would be great

Thanks

Nettle

TheminxIRL wrote: »

To make a long story short, my brother died suddenly and since then his wife (who hated us from the time they met because we arent all well to do like her) has blanked our family and will not allow us to visit.

They have two kids who are only 8 and 5 and we adore them and they us.

Us siblings are taking offence to her behaviour and one brother in particular is of the opinion if that's how she wants it then that's what she gets.

My sister wants to see the kids but away from my SIL,I want to see the kids and would love to make amends with my SIL for peace sake and plus she was very good to my brother that died and had three hard years of illness.

My mother is a different story, its like apart from wanting to see her grandkids, its like she has a need to HAVE to see them. I suppose its all she has left of her son.

Just wondering if anyone on here has had to go to court or know someone who has gone to court to try get court ordered access times?

It will have to go down this route unfortunately because she will not give in nor consider what she is doing to my mother who is in her 70's and not well after having a stroke last year.


Apart from grieving for her son, she is stressed and worried she wont see the kids again so now we are all stressed and worried that she will make herself sick again over it.

Any advice would be great

Thanks

My mother had to do the same as in go to court to get access to my nephew, the judge asked the mother to agree to the access but she wouldn't so he made an order for 2 hours a week. The case will be heard in the family court so it won't be reported in the local newspapers. I wish your family all the best with it

TheminxIRL

Thanks Nettle its nice to hear from someone who had success with it.

Im also glad it will be private too, I'd hate for the kids to know that we had to go down that route to be able to see them.

Please God it will go smoothly and not end up in a mutiny

Calhoun

Op, I hope this works out for you but I would urge that you thread very carefully, you got to remember your not the only ones grieving. I don't just mean your sil I mean the kids also, it can't be to easy on them.

If you are to proceed I would do so only in the name of your mother, i know you probably won't apply as individuals but I would keep the demands to a minimum. Your sister only wanting to see them alone won't help the situation, try keep the door open for rebuilding the relationship you will get more out of it in the long run if you do.

Very tricky situation I hope it works out for your mother.

LegacyUser

I find it very strange that your SIL would go to the extreme of cutting off access to seeing the kids and cutting her deceased husbands family out of her life, all because she's well to do. What was your relationship with her like when your brother was alive, surely if she stuck her nose up at you and didn't like you for something like this, your brother would have stepped in? I've a feeling there's more to the story OP, sorry if i'm way off the mark, just seems a bit strange. I would try speaking to your SIL before I go down the route of courts, ask to bury the hatchet for your brother and his kids sake. It could get very ugly if you involve courts and even though it's not publicised, it could still have a negative impact on the kids. If its your last resort and the only way to see the kids though, I would pursue it, but I would use it only as a last resort.

jdsk2006

I have to agree with sibling rivalrys post. Its obvious a hell of a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. Reach out to your grieving sister in law with sincerity before you go that step further.
As regards your sister wanting kids minus their mum, she will almost certainly ruffle feathers with that attitude

I can understand you wanting to see the kids. But there's a few things I think are worth jotting down:

- Your (and your family's) attitude towards the kids' mother is less than friendly.
- This seems like a two sides against each other family rift, where your side is a whole lot of people who are (understandably, but still) angry and her side is just herself, alone, bereaved, raising two children. Surely that's pretty intimidating.
- Her children are (even more so than in a two parent situation) her entire world now. Everything she has.
- You haven't described your wishes as "to work it out"/"find a solution"/"make some sort of compromise/agreement", but rather for her to "give in", and "consider" what she's doing to your mother (who she knows doesn't like her).
- The stress of court (even family court) may be just as stressful for your mother as the current situation is, and if she gets court appointed visits, there will undoubtedly be a shadow over them. The mother will resent handing them over/letting your mother in, and the kids WILL feel this tension, including during the time your mother may get with them.
- She has to be a disciplinarian. You get to come in, scoop the kids up and spoil them.

I can't imagine myself being in neither your nor the mother's situation. But at my best attempt, I'd imagine that very few people in her situation would want your family to see the children, and certainly not alone. The time after a bereavement is incredibly tough on all involved, and I wouldn't want a cool, fun, loving influence on my kids coming from a group of people who disliked me enough to take me to court and thought I was stuck up. After losing your brother she may have fears that she'd lose them too, in part, to you.

I hope you do get to see the children, but I really think olive branches might be far more beneficial overall.

Ms. Pingui

I'm in a similar situation to your SIL. My ex died when our daughter was only a baby and I have made heaps of effort with her paternal side of the family. Everything I suggest is shot down because they want it all their own way. You will need to get used to making serious compromises. She is a lone parent now with 2 young children, her feelings DO matter!

Remember you are not the only ones grieving! She has lost her husband and her children's father. That is as big a deal as losing a brother or son, so don't belittle her feelings because it is truly horrible.

At the end of the day she is the mother and her feelings about who sees her kids and when is up to her. Try to (as another poster said) to extend the olive branch. I think this is the only way forward really.
Courts and forcing her to let you see her kids is going to create tension that will impact on your family's relationship with the children.
And as for the sister who wants access to the kids without their mother, her attitude is appalling and I would suggest she rethinks that idea.

All the best.

tinkerbell

OP, I agree with what the last two posters said. The woman has lost her husband and father to her children. Her whole world has been turned upside down, she must be really struggling. Your family coming along with court orders would be extremely selfish and self-centred, IMO. The woman is grieving, she doesn't need this crap from your family. Why can't you reach out to her as a person rather than as the mother of your nieces / nephews. Offer her support, call over to visit her, offer some help around the house, get to know her as a person without going over solely to visit the kids, etc.

If relations between you all were never good to start with, slapping court orders on her is gonna make things worse. Work on your relationship with her first, then things will work out with the children.

By the way, your sister has an appalling attitude. She expects to see the children without their mother present? What planet is she on if she thinks that will happen when her and your SIL don't get along? Sounds like your family need a bit of a reality check tbh ....

TheminxIRL

Ok enough of the jumping down my neck, I am not talking about doing this immediately I am talking about if further down the line things dont improve and with regards to offering the olive branch I myself have already done that but only got a grunt back.

We are not that inconsiderate to go down that route straight after my brothers death, we are not ogres we just need to see if there are options and how they pan out if we do happen to.

With regards to my sisters "appalling" attitude, my sister has been used, insulted and treated like sh*t by this person so I can see why she wouldnt want a relationship with her. My sister is a good person and will do anything for anyone and does not deserve the way she was treated by her.

My mother is an elderly sick woman who adores all her grandchildren and it is killing her not be able to see the kids especially as they are her only link to my brother now.

I would love to be able to go sit with her and have a chat but that is not her, never was so I feel I am being unjustly judged here, the kids can only benefit from having extended family in their lives and get to mix with their cousins.

And on the point that we want it our own way, I never said that, we would gladly drop everything at any time day or night if she said we could visit, we have made no demands what so ever and never would

Calhoun

TheminxIRL wrote: »

Ok enough of the jumping down my neck, I am not talking about doing this immediately I am talking about if further down the line things dont improve and with regards to offering the olive branch I myself have already done that but only got a grunt back.

We are not that inconsiderate to go down that route straight after my brothers death, we are not ogres we just need to see if there are options and how they pan out if we do happen to.

With regards to my sisters "appalling" attitude, my sister has been used, insulted and treated like sh*t by this person so I can see why she wouldnt want a relationship with her. My sister is a good person and will do anything for anyone and does not deserve the way she was treated by her.

My mother is an elderly sick woman who adores all her grandchildren and it is killing her not be able to see the kids especially as they are her only link to my brother now.

I would love to be able to go sit with her and have a chat but that is not her, never was so I feel I am being unjustly judged here, the kids can only benefit from having extended family in their lives and get to mix with their cousins.

And on the point that we want it our own way, I never said that, we would gladly drop everything at any time day or night if she said we could visit, we have made no demands what so ever and never would

To be fair the comment about your sister threw allot of people, it's fine that she doesn't want a relationship but she shouldn't expect to see those kids alone or anytime soon.

The other reason people were saying to extend the olive branch is that even if you do go down the court route, your sil can make these visits very very painful. So much so there maybe no joy for them in having this relationship, so the benefit of their cousins being around them would be lost .

Let me ask you this, could your family remain civil when it came to talking about their mother in front of them? Children are more than capable of picking up cynicism and when folk are talking about them/ their mother . Or even worse what if the cousins hear it from the adults and say something back to them?

Doesn't sound like a nice environment for any child to be around but if it comes to a court appointed visit, coupled with the already bad feelings for the sil it is an eventuality .

I would focus on trying to build bridges but if it does come to going to court be prepared for your mother being the only one that may see them and a very strained relationship.

Big Bag of Chips

People are just offering advice on what you post, OP. There is no point in getting defensive with posters here, who have no bearing or influence on your situation at all.

Like it or not your family have no automatic "right" to access to your brother's children. That would be true even if your brother were alive. Your mother can apply to court for the right to apply for access. A judge will most likely grant her that right, and then that is when she would apply for access.

There is obviously no love lost between you all and their mother. And I do think there are 2 sides to everyone's story. She may have started it by not engaging with you all at the beginning, but you are all contributing to it with your attitude towards her now... and don't take that as jumping down your throat! It would be very difficult in your position to not feel some animosity towards her, but don't fool yourselves that the kids are sheltered from it. They will almost certainly pick up on an atmosphere. And as another poster mentioned, you should all be very careful not to discuss anything in front of your own kids. Little ears are always listening!

Big Bag of Chips

This thread might be better suited in the Parenting Forum, OP. You may get advice from parents who have been through the process.

If you would like it moved, please let us know.

TheminxIRL

No its fine thanks, I think I have gotten all the info I need.

Ken.

Have a read of this Thermin. http://www.treoir.ie/target-grandparents.php

jdsk2006

TheminxIRL wrote: »

No its fine thanks, I think I have gotten all the info I need.

Your tone took quiet turn on your second post. If you were only seeking posters like myself to merely empathise with you and give you some conviction you should have stated that in your first post.
I sensed a massive sense of animosity towards your brothers wife and your second post clarified it for me. I know your position is unfair and hurting you but i can't help but think for your grieving sister in law with an entire family against her......imagine how intimidating that is for her, especially when it takes so much fight for her to just get through every day. I would limit my dealings with such a situation too in her shoes.
I hope it works out for you all and ye find peace somewhere