2012 kia cee'd Sw help!

ewj1978

Hi folks, long story but bear with me.

Bought a new cee'd 1.6 hdi last year. Had put 42000 kms on it when it started to lose power and generally feel sluggish. This was July 15th.
Brought it to my local KIA dealership who replaced the fuel filter and advised me to fill the tank a few times and if the problem remained come back to him.
3 weeks later same intermittent power loss but now also an intermittent shudder in the engine.. no warning lights at any time..
Said Bugger this and brought it to where I bought the car in cork city.
They couldn't find a fault after 4 days and I told them to properly drive it.. their service manager takes it home and eureka! Problem shows up but they're stumped.. they then tell me its "washed diesel" damage and send the injectors,fuel pump and common rail to be independently tested..
Tests come back, all 4 injectors damaged.. KIA refuse to cover it under warranty, sigh..
I'm now looking at a bill of 3k on a car I bought last year. Mate says ask your insurance do they cover it.. they will, brilliant! 2 weeks later get a phonecall from claims department and Nope! They won't.. no proof of "washed diesel" on any components. I'm now goosed..
So back to KIA I go with the insurance company's info.. write an email to their company care department explaining the situation and bam! KIA will now suddenly fix it under warranty.. get the car back on the 11th of October, a full 7 weeks after dropping it into the main dealers... have to go up north for a gig next day and guess what.. loss of power on my way back next day..
Car brought back to main dealers last Monday.. picked up again 2 days ago. I asked " did you replicate the issue?" "yes". "did you fix the cause?"yes,we replaced the fuel filter housing", " is the car ready to go" " yes, its perfect"
Drove to work Friday night.. guess what ... Sigh!
Loss of power but now I also have an engine management light.. so back to the main dealers I go tomorrow.

My question to everyone, what would you/ should I do now?

Pkiernan

Document everything and start ring around for solicitors.

galwaytt

So after being it fixed, you went to the North and then the problem reappeared? Did you buy diesel in the North?

I don't think just changing the housing would cure it tbh. I think NissanDoctor did a thread on curing this in a Renault a while ago and it took a lot more. Every fuel line, component fuel tank etc am had to come out for flushing or replacement. You could easily have had swarf in the system and it would have fubar'd any repair if not done completely.

ewj1978

nope.. bought diesel in a topaz in dungarvan and took me there and back..

so basically you're saying they didnt repair it properly..

MuppetCheck

ewj1978 wrote: »

nope.. bought diesel in a topaz in dungarvan and took me there and back..

so basically you're saying they didnt repair it properly..

PM sent.

mfceiling

Before i start, i'm not having a go at you OP.

There is no saving to be had by buying cheaper fuel. I rarely fill outside of topaz or esso. A "saving" of 5 cent per litre is only €2.50 over 50 litres - is it worth a couple of quid to be left stranded on the side of the road and then facing a huge engine repair bill?

Again, sympathies OP - and i read that you got diesel in a topaz so you probably have been buying decent fuel.

Can you recall buying "cheaper" fuel recently?

ewj1978

ok.. thread isn't about dirty fuel..


Thread is about how I should proceed now as KIA havent been able/want to fix the vehicle after 3 months. I have no other vehicle and this is now starting to impact my ability to get to work etc..

colm_mcm

Where did the insurance company get the components tested? Have you got the report?

ewj1978

KIA sent the parts to be independently tested... and yes I have a copy..

main points are:

1: No visible corrosion found on any component

2: No evidence of contaminated fuel on the components.

3: we would suspect... not actually prove.

4: and/or... No definitive conclusion.

Hence why my insurance company would not cover for contaminated fuel..

bear1

I'd be returning the car as not fit for purpose.
Either demand a replacement car or money back, that would be my way to go.
Have you done a diagnostics test at an independent mechanic? If the EML is on then there is a fault code stored on the ECU.

ewj1978

Sitting in the main dealers now waiting for them to come back to me. No option really.

tryfix

Not sure if this is any help, something about air getting into the system that might be worth looking into.


http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-ceed-forum/45422-lost-power-new-2008-kia-ceed-6.html

MuppetCheck

ewj1978 wrote: »

Sitting in the main dealers now waiting for them to come back to me. No option really.

Best of luck getting it sorted.

galwaytt

bear1 wrote: »

I'd be returning the car as not fit for purpose.
Either demand a replacement car or money back, that would be my way to go.
Have you done a diagnostics test at an independent mechanic? If the EML is on then there is a fault code stored on the ECU.

42000 kms in 12 months shows it is fit. Its just that something has gone wrong. ..

ewj1978

They're going to replace the egr valve tomorrow, in the hope it fixes the issue.Tbh I've had enough of this vehicle and as soon as the job is done I'll be trading in/up/down for something else.

bear1

ewj1978 wrote: »

They're going to replace the egr valve tomorrow, in the hope it fixes the issue.Tbh I've had enough of this vehicle and as soon as the job is done I'll be trading in/up/down for something else.

EGR? Usually if the EGR is kaput then the car will have no power until a certain rev range and bang it kicks into life...
I would be thinking more the MAF than the EGR to be honest.
Did they run a diagnostics? If not it sounds like they are just replacing anything in the hoe it cures it.. real cowboy way of doing things

colm_mcm

I would disagree with it being a cowboy way of doing it tbh. If the ecu isnt throwing a fault there are troubleshooting procedures.
The injectors seem ok so why would they change them

Op i know its a pain but they will eventually get to the bottom of it.
I wouldnt bother changing car as no car is guaranteed to be trouble free and you have a good warranty

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would disagree with it being a cowboy way of doing it tbh. If the ecu isnt throwing a fault there are troubleshooting procedures.
The injectors seem ok so why would they change them

Op i know its a pain but they will eventually get to the bottom of it.
I wouldnt bother changing car as no car is guaranteed to be trouble free and you have a good warranty

Didn't mention anything about changing the injectors
The OP mentioned the EML is on so I'd figure there must be a fault logged on the ECU
EGR's are quite an easy thing to diagnose, pouring out smoke, extremely slow take offs until a certain rpm.
I would suggest the MAF mainly due to them causing immediate limp mode, no power whatsoever, can produce smoke and would also cause bad fuel consumption (same as EGR) car could also be lumpy at idle if it was very bad.
If you have the car, maybe try disconnecting the MAF and see if it runs better, if yeah more than likely your MAF is gone

ewj1978

Ok, they picked up the car from my work place and returned it later.. New egr valve in place..soon as I started it I felt the lumpy engine.. accelerated fine and thought it was just me, till I was cruising down the road in sixth, about ten miles later.. felt a dip in power and when I came to the next stop, the thing was seriously vibrating, and ofc no rpm above 2700 ish after that..
Stumped now..

bear1

Out of curiosity how many KM's are on the car now? I wonder if the timing could be off?
If the car wont rev then I would again look at the MAF (air flow meter) if you want to tick that item off your list then look at this page:

http://www.get-into-something-good.co.uk/blog/kia-ceed-sportswagon-built-for-business/

I'm not sure if this is the C'eed that you have but it will give you an idea of where the MAF is.
Look at the 3rd picture, you can see the air filter housing and one hose going from it.
The MAF is that part which immediately attaches to the air filter housing and has a wire coming from it, simply unplug it and go for a drive. If nothing changes then at least you can cross that off your list, if it feels better then get a new MAF

ianobrien

bear1 wrote: »

Ignition coils?

On a Diesel?:rolleyes:

bear1

ianobrien wrote: »

On a Diesel?:rolleyes:

Whoops sorry

ewj1978

There's 42,000km on it..
I'll have a look at the maf when I'm off work tonight.

vincent coffey

Pkiernan wrote: »

Document everything and start ring around for solicitors.

have to agree with this sentiment.
I had a similar issue in 2011/2012 with a newly purchased car that continually just went dead for no reason.
6 times I returned it to the dealer.
everything from a fuse to a complete wiring loom replacement was done and still no joy.
Finally the car broke down at 7am on a winter morning before Christmas last year with my wife and child in it.
Rang the manufacturer, told them where the car could be collected and rang my solicitor for advice.
He said that I had a very strong case against both the dealer and manufacturer and that he would take the case under sale of goods act
Contacted the manufacturer directly and told them the course of action I would be pursuing in the new year.
This resulted in me receiving a call in January offering me a replacement car with lower mileage and better spec for my inconvenience as my own car was an obvious lemon.
Save yourself a lot of trouble, go and seek independent legal advice on this.
Note everything that has occurred to help your solicitor make a case.
Do no waste 18 months "trusting" the main dealer like I did because once they have your money they don't give a f**k about you.
Best of luck.

ewj1978

Emissions warning light came on again on the way road so that's the egr valve fix screwed for certain..
I'll be back in the main dealers on Monday but this time with a solicitor.

bear1

Did you try the MAF yet?
Another thing came to my mind which would be the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) they are notorious on any modern diesel and people usually have them removed which actually improves the cars performance.
Best of luck anyway

ewj1978

Just home, ate the dinner posted about the egr. I'll try the maf tomorrow when I'm off.

Row

Without doing anything I would get it plugged in somewhere else (independent garage) just to read the faults codes (don't clear them)....if you get them read then maybe we have a kia expert here that may have an idea where the problem is...:)

Btw..if you unplug the maf this will also log a fault in the engine ecu....

ewj1978

ok.. car back to KIA main dealer today.. and guess what.. code is a EGR valve.

I've had enough and my solicitor will be involved from now on.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

bear1

Do you do a lot of town driving? this could clog up an EGR. Usually when its changed its advised to clean out all pipes that lead to the egr. but you're doing the right thing now. the car isnt fit for purpose

colm_mcm

bear1 wrote: »

the car isnt fit for purpose

Sorry, just on that. Its a phrase that gets used a lot here. My understanding of that is if the OP went into the Kia dealer looking for a car that would tow 3 tonnes and ended up with a kia ceed, then its not fit for purpose.
You could point out that the purpose of a car is to actually drive, but I'm pretty sure that that's not what fit for purpose means, I may be wrong of course.


In this case the car has a fault (which doesn't appear to be being handled very well by the dealer)

OP have you contacted kia Ireland directly?

ewj1978

yes, on numerous occasions, whereupon I'm told Their technical department are in communication with the dealership..

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sorry, just on that. Its a phrase that gets used a lot here. My understanding of that is if the OP went into the Kia dealer looking for a car that would tow 3 tonnes and ended up with a kia ceed, then its not fit for purpose.
You could point out that the purpose of a car is to actually drive, but I'm pretty sure that that's not what fit for purpose means, I may be wrong of course.


In this case the car has a fault (which doesn't appear to be being handled very well by the dealer)

OP have you contacted kia Ireland directly?

No problem, I may also be wrong with my terminology.
My understanding of "fit for purpose" is like this:

If I go into a dealership and say "I want car X and here is X amount of money", I would be buying into a contract where the seller is telling me that this new car is fit for purpose, drives fine and does what it is supposed to do.
If after 40k this car starts giving me nothing but problems and spends X amount of time in the shop to have work done which is to no avail then I'd be inclined to think that the car is not fit for purpose in the sense that it is not driveable in a safe manner. Losing power when needing to overtake can be dangerous.
This would be my understanding of it, correct if I'm wrong however

Ray13

You need to get a motor assessor report and send to Kia, this usually gets an excellent result, try www.dunphyengineers.ie or www.motorassessor.ie

Ray13

You should take into consideration that the car is actually in an unroadworthy and therefore dangerous condition, and as such, should you have an accident your insurance may not be valid.

colm_mcm

bear1 wrote: »

No problem, I may also be wrong with my terminology.
My understanding of "fit for purpose" is like this:

If I go into a dealership and say "I want car X and here is X amount of money", I would be buying into a contract where the seller is telling me that this new car is fit for purpose, drives fine and does what it is supposed to do.
If after 40k this car starts giving me nothing but problems and spends X amount of time in the shop to have work done which is to no avail then I'd be inclined to think that the car is not fit for purpose in the sense that it is not driveable in a safe manner. Losing power when needing to overtake can be dangerous.
This would be my understanding of it, correct if I'm wrong however

If anything it falls under the merchantable quality bit. Sale of goods act is quite complex anyway and i dont fully get it but i know that the fact that it did 42000km without issue would suggest that it was ok at point of sale and that thats what the warranty is for.
That doesnt take from the fact that kia aren't handling this particularly well.

ewj1978

KIA contacted me this morning to tell me that the garage had informed them there was nothing wrong with the vehicle.... This after there being a warning light on the dash for 4 days/ loss of power etc... Unfortunately for KIA I was once again in the main dealership at the time. So I went to ask wtf.. shown the email from the garage to KIA. It says they can't find the fault while driving but that they also had to clear the egr valve fault again( something KIA customer care seemed to not deem important).
Basically IMHO KIA aren't bothered/ can't be arsed to repair my vehicle.
Solicitors in the morning.

Ray13

A solicitor will cost a fortune to tell u to get a motor assessor report. A good strongly worded report from an automobile expert is what you need. I mentioned some Road Safety Authority & IAEA & SIMI approved ones earlier. They will visit your home, do a test drive and full litigation ready comprehensive report

Ray13

Furthermore if the solicitor orders a report it usually costs about 400 as assessors tend to charge higher rates to sols than individuals, most u should pay is 150. By sound of things u describe, result will be that the vendor would have a case to answer in relation to reimbursement. Best of luck!

ewj1978

Drove the Car around since Monday and the egr fault being cleared.the fault hadn't returned by Thursday and car felt fine. So I've traded it in for a new vehicle.
reasons:
had no faith in the car. Couldn't trust it tbh
herself wouldn't drive the thing.. not even to the shops.
Basically being called a Liar by KIA doesn't help in solving an issue.
No more KIA cee'd, no more dealing with KIA. Problem solved.
Thanks for all the help and information.
Hopefully someone else will read the thread and get an independent assessors report before they have to go through 3 months of ****e.

Ray13

Phew, did u mention probs to garage u traded in to?

colm_mcm

The only winner here was the motor trade tbh.

Good luck with the new car though. What did you buy?

Ray13

colm_mcm wrote: »

The only winner here was the motor trade tbh.

Very true! We might see this same car pop back up on another thread soon!

galwaytt

colm_mcm wrote: »

The only winner here was the motor trade tbh.

Good luck with the new car though. What did you buy?

Exactly. Dying to see what OP bought instead.