Connection between Ayrians and Germany

bobbyss

Part of Nazi propaganda was the idea of Germans being a master race. We have seen Nazi posters of blued eyed, blonde youth and so on.

Associated with this idea is reference to the Ayrians. The Ayrians, I think, were of Asian origin and therefore far from blue eyed and blonde.

Can anyone explain why there is this link, this connection between Nazism and Ayrians when the two physically were so different. Why would the Nazis refer to a people far removed from Europe and hold them up as a paragon of virtue? Why not look closer to home ie Scandinavia or Germany itself, for such similarities? Did Hitler himself ever pronounce on Ayrianism?

wandatowell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

While originally meant simply as a neutral ethno-linguistic classification, from the late 19th century onwards the concept of the Aryan race has been used by proponents of ideologically-motivated racism and white supremacism such as in doctrines of Nazism and neo-Nazism.

bobbyss

wandatowell wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

Thanks wandatowell for that.
Have you read that article? Did the Ayrians ever exist or were they some kind of an ideal race? Were they blonde and blue eyed?

riffmongous

Well I guess we originally came from africa and yet don't look anything like african people right...? I'd guess biology and anthropology weren't advanced or well known enough back then to explain such things. I think the idea was more to disassociate them from other lesser races, and the Aryan philosophy fitted this nicely. Anyway the Aryans came from Atlantis and not Asia! :P

I got a book from Osprey Publishing last night on Nazi Occultism, it's sort of pretending to be serious, but it's quite interesting to read some of the crazier stuff that has a kernel of truth, especially considering how deeply Himmler seemed to be involved with some of it.

Manach

Also an interesting account (The most dangerous book in the world) on how the Nazi's used Tacitus' Germania to boost this myth.

Emme

I don't know much about the original Aryans, but apparently they came from Western Asia. This may have been Afghanistan or Iran. The Nazis stole the swastika from there. Some people from those countries have green/blue eyes, light skin and blond/red hair but it's very rare now because these are recessive traits. It may be that more people had those traits centuries or millennia ago but that doesn't make them a master race. Alexander the Great is supposed to have been a redhead and light hair, eyes and skin are supposed to have been more common in Western Asia and the Mediterranean years ago. Apparently the climate was more temperate in the Mediterranean and parts of the Sahara was cultivated at one stage. So it would have been more tolerable for lighter skinned people than it is now. Indeed, thanks to the supposedly new :rolleyes: phenomenon of climate change the Sahara is still advancing North.

The Berbers of North Africa can also be fair with blue or green eyes.

The Nazis did a lot of damage and I don't know where they came up with their nonsense.

riffmongous

Emme wrote: »

Indeed, thanks to the supposedly new :rolleyes: phenomenon of climate change the Sahara is still advancing North.



The Nazis did a lot of damage and I don't know where they came up with their nonsense.

There is a difference between anthropogenic climate change and climate change, climate change is the natural one while ACC is caused by humans and is more or less new

LordSutch

This the image that the word Ayrian conjures up in my mind.

http://domoregooddeeds.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/poster-german-student.jpg

Wibbs

Emme wrote: »

Alexander the Great is supposed to have been a redhead and light hair, eyes and skin are supposed to have been more common in Western Asia and the Mediterranean years ago.

He was more yellow than red apparently. It's still up in he air what colour his hair was. The only problem with the idea that light hair was common in the area was the ancient Greeks of his time hadn't a word for "blonde" as such. If it was so common they likely would have. Later Celtic invasions from the north would have increased the number of those with the gene.

Apparently the climate was more temperate in the Mediterranean and parts of the Sahara was cultivated at one stage.

You have to go a looooong way back before you find the Sahara cultivated. Egypt sprung up as it did because they had the nile which gave them a reliable water supply and fertile land in a thin ribbon along the river, outside of that was the desert. They saw their land as divided between the black land(the fertile bit) and the red land(the wasteland bit). In the northern Mediterranean areas it would have been less barren in most places compared to today. Deforestation completely changed the landscape. It would have been a little more temperate, but still not much cooler than today.

The Nazis did a lot of damage and I don't know where they came up with their nonsense.

Myth legend twisted into some hyped up Wagnerian romantic fantasy land. The Nazi's didn't invent it, merely stole it as their own and added in the pseudoscience of social Darwinism. That kind of gazing back at a heroic nationalist romantic "pure" past was pretty common in Europe in the late 19th century. We even had it here with the Celtic revival. The English looked back to the Saxons, but also to the Tudors(even art tried to "get back" with the preraphaelites). The Italians looked back to Rome, the Germans looked back to Brunhilda and all that stuff. I suspect it was in response to a real need in people for a return to simpler "better" times in the face of the massive and rapid changes in technology and world culture in the 19th century.

Emme

LordSutch wrote: »

This the image that the word Ayrian conjures up in my mind.

http://domoregooddeeds.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/poster-german-student.jpg

Or this even if it is British
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdpOjletnc

riffmongous

Wibbs wrote: »

Myth legend twisted into some hyped up Wagnerian romantic fantasy land. The Nazi's didn't invent it, merely stole it as their own and added in the pseudoscience of social Darwinism. That kind of gazing back at a heroic nationalist romantic "pure" past was pretty common in Europe in the late 19th century. We even had it here with the Celtic revival. The English looked back to the Saxons, but also to the Tudors(even art tried to "get back" with the preraphaelites). The Italians looked back to Rome, the Germans looked back to Brunhilda and all that stuff. I suspect it was in response to a real need in people for a return to simpler "better" times in the face of the massive and rapid changes in technology and world culture in the 19th century.

It was really quite a turbulent time in central europe, with the decline of the small kingdoms, the extinction of the Holy Roman Empire years before and a huge rise in socialism and people power.The militaristic Prussia started to dominate german politics and the more multi-cultural Austrian empire was excluded after Königsgratz. Shortly after started the Franco-Prussian war which really set the idea of Germany as a country politically. I think in these times it's not too difficult to see how people probably reacted to the politics with a search for something to help them explain and deal with all this. Germans had been fighting and killing each other for hundreds of years in many devastating wars based on religion and petty politics and now they found themselves in one country.

You can look also at the problems Austria faced after world war 1 in trying to discover a national identity outside of a Großdeutschland and only with the disaster of ww2 were they really able to solve that (where funnily enough most people now treat germans with more resentment than irish people treat english people).

Snickers Man

There was a documentary on TV tonight about a scientific investigation into the likely basis for the myth of Bigfoot or the Yeti. It made reference to a bizarre expedition made to Nepal in the 1930s by a team of Nazis looking for scientific evidence for the theory that the Germans (Aryans) were a race separate from and superior to other humans.

All a bit mad.

BTW DNA evidence of hair and bone purporting to come from a Yeti suggested that it is a creature descended from the Polar Bear. But I digress.....

HansHolzel

Ayr is a former Royal Burgh in Ayrshire, Scotland. Ayr was the county town of the wider county of Ayrshire until 1975. Ayr is now the administrative centre of South Ayrshire council area, which is the unitary local authority.

HansHolzel

These Ayrians are really sinister.

Ipso

I remember talking to someone in a pub in Dublin, when he heard I was from Donegal he remarked it was one of the last places you could find pure Aryans.
When dealing with Artan/master race stuff the thing to always remember is that you're not dealing with normal people.
Iran is named after Aryans but I doubt the Combat18 types would embrace Iranians to their bosoms.

gobnaitolunacy

Ipso wrote: »

I remember talking to someone in a pub in Dublin, when he heard I was from Donegal he remarked it was one of the last places you could find pure Aryans.
When dealing with Artan/master race stuff the thing to always remember is that you're not dealing with normal people.
Iran is named after Aryans but I doubt the Combat18 types would embrace Iranians to their bosoms.

The very reason why this should be relegated to the dustbin of history along with other pseudosciences like Phrenology.

Jawgap

Was reading something today and found a quote from Beckett that reminded me of this thread.....

Based on his travels in Germany in 1930s he wrote than in order to be 'Aryan' one must be "blond like Hitler, thin like Goring, handsome like Goebbels, virile like Rohm - and be called Rosenborg"

tac foley

Emme wrote: »

Or this even if it is British
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdpOjletnc

How about Cuchulainn then?


He looks pretty 'Aryan' to me.

tac

Ipso

tac foley wrote: »

How about Cuchulainn then?


He looks pretty 'Aryan' to me.

tac

Arya gwan outta that!

Jawgap

tac foley wrote: »

How about Cuchulainn then?


He looks pretty 'Aryan' to me.

tac

Bit gay to be honest.......

Needs more.......



Fionn mac Cumhaill might have been a bit more Aryan - Fionn literally means blonde or fair haired

tac foley

Jawgap wrote: »

Bit gay to be honest.......

Needs more.......



Fionn mac Cumhaill might have been a bit more Aryan - Fionn literally means blonde or fair haired

Mr mac Cumhaill looks like the definitive Aryan archetype to me - blonde, chiselled jawline, built like a BSH, mighty thews and all that stuff that got the nazis so excited.

tac

Jawgap

tac foley wrote: »

Mr mac Cumhaill looks like the definitive Aryan archetype to me - blonde, chiselled jawline, built like a BSH, mighty thews and all that stuff that got the nazis so excited.

tac

Apologies - the graphic was Cuchulainn......

Fionn, appropriately enough for a leader of Na Fianna, 'guards' the entrance to the Curragh with his hounds Bran and Sceolan (formerly his nephews who were turned into hunting dogs)

Ipso

tac foley wrote: »

Mr mac Cumhaill looks like the definitive Aryan archetype to me - blonde, chiselled jawline, built like a BSH, mighty thews and all that stuff that got the nazis so excited.

tac

There was a white supremacist (David Duke I think) who used to use Irish mythology as an example of what the master race should look like.
I also think therecare a couple different descriptions of what Cucullain looked like. One source says he had light hair of three different shades and another has him dark haired.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

Two things Cuchulainn had. Salon quality hair. And the ability to smite all enemies.

tac foley

Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »

Two things Cuchulainn had. Salon quality hair. And the ability to smite all enemies.

Allegedly.

tac