Seanad vote extended

Horrid Henry

Kenny's activating a 1979 provision to allow the graduates of more colleges to elect senators...

petronius

Should have been done years ago -
Unlike the propaganda issued by the government and by the socialist party - exisiting graduates from trinity and nui amount to 200k which is far more than the 1% they claimed
Opening it to all graduates of irish universities could mean more graduates who are members of the diaspora also have votes as well as those in the six counties.

but also other groups should be allocated votes to the panels (roughly broke down) no person should have two votes for the seanad

Farmers, ICA members and fishermen to the agricultural panel
Home makers and public servants to the Administration panel
Construction, manufacturing workers and unemployed to the Labour panel
Small business, Engineering and retail workers to Industrial and commercial panel
Hospitiality, artists, educational workers, cultural workers to the cultural panel

The taoiseachs nominees (needs to be kept with the constitution) should be defined to make up for under representation in parliament of groups in irish society
Maybe Diaspora, Travellers, New Irish (emigrants), the North

and not the crude nominations as sweets for party members or collation partners as it has been abused by taoisigh in the past (and very recent past)

Copyerselveson

It's a start, but a long way from universal suffrage.

Horrid Henry

Isn't the point that the Seanad is elected by graduates of Trinity and NUI to safeguard us all from gombeenery?

If we grant a vote to people who've attended RTCs and DITs, would we be diluting this protection? (serious question)

And should "graduates" of "Daddy's Business School" type fake colleges have a vote? (those places where you pay €6k a year and get a bit of paper from the University of East Anglia).

paul71

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Isn't the point that the Seanad is elected by graduates of Trinity and NUI to safeguard us all from gombeenery?

If we grant a vote to people who've attended RTCs and DITs, would we be diluting this protection? (serious question)

And should "graduates" of "Daddy's Business School" type fake colleges have a vote? (those places where you pay €6k a year and get a bit of paper from the University of East Anglia).

Why would you think NUI or Trinity Graduates are above the politics of Gombeenery?

Many of the Fake Daddys business schools, DITs and RTCs offer degree courses or entry to professional level exams which are far more relevent to modern society then an ARTs degree in UCD or UCG.

petronius

eh no - there was an aspect to the TCD senators to provide representation to the protestant/unionist tradition which is defunct now.

Opening it up to DCU, UL, Institutes of Technology indeed NCEA/HETAC graduates can only be enfranchising -
the key is to make more seats (constitution maintains the taoiseachs nominees) electable by the public everyone should be allocated to a panel - maybe select a panel on election day or register during census.
holding the seanad election same day as dail would prevent failed dail candidates getting a 2nd chance via the seanad

Unless you can allocate graduates other seats (and i believe this is limited by bunreacht) I think the university seats have an electorate of about 200k the majority in the NUI (UCD,UCC,NUIG,NUIM,RCSI,NCAD) maybe adding DCU and UL and DIT to TCD seats and IT's broken up to make the 2 panels even enough.

Red Kev

This should be used as a temporary stopgap for a year or two until a system is enacted to give the vote to all*. Giving it solely to people who've been to third level is nonsense.

*At the very least Irish citizens over 18 as in Referendums. I'd be in favour of some form of franchise for
-EU citizens
-non nationals resident here.
-Diaspora/Irish living abroad.
-Over 16's.

Horrid Henry

Red Kev wrote: »

This should be used as a temporary stopgap for a year or two until a system is enacted to give the vote to all*. Giving it solely to people who've been to third level is nonsense.

*At the very least Irish citizens over 18 as in Referendums. I'd be in favour of some form of franchise for
-EU citizens
-non nationals resident here.
-Diaspora/Irish living abroad.
-Over 16's.

The point is that 3rd level graduates are probably more sensible than the general population.

That was the logic of the Constitution.

petronius

Both the Prof Crown, and the Feargal Quinn proposals would give universal franchise to the public to vote for an seanad - and both seem to be within the constitutional constraints
Implementing the 1979 referendum would be a start, and could easily be done prior to the next election if there is feet dragging or issues about the universal franchise - certainly extending the franchise to other graduates would allow for members of the diaspora and graduates resident in the North of Ireland to contribute to the seanad.
The simple measure of holding the referendum (or at least having nominations close before a general election would exclude failing dail candidates to get the consolation prize of a seanad seat)

Extending the rights to all the diaspora, or changing the constituencies(panels) would seem to require more legislation and time and a referendum.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Bill on extending the vote to all 3rd level graduates due to be debated by the Oireachtas before Christmas and to be passed into law before the next election. One university panel of 6 seats to replace the current 3+3 (TCD, NUI) arrangement.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/all-college-graduates-to-get-vote-in-seanad-elections-1.1607342

Fred Swanson

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Mr Cumulonimbus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Would want to be made clear alright. Many RTC graduates of the 1970's & 1980s etc would have 2 year national certificates and then a further 1 year add on national diploma. Not all courses were offered to degree level.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Size of electorate for the university panel to increase from 150,000 to 740,000 according to the Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/huge-number-of-new-voters-for-seanad-university-seats-1.1608600

Fred Swanson

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Mr Cumulonimbus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

From the article:

Work will now take place on defining what a degree or equivalent qualification means.

What method will they use for this I wonder?

Another article by the journal.ie.

http://www.thejournal.ie/seanad-reform-third-level-graduates-1193621-Nov2013/

A bit more on who'll be eligable. Private colleges get a mention here.

All holders of degrees or equivalent qualifications from Irish universties, Institutes of Technology, private colleges and bodies such as the Royal College of Surgeons will be eligible to vote under the changes.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Futher article in the Irsh Times. How far will the government take Seanad reform?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/government-reaction-to-referendum-defeat-is-rapid-but-may-not-be-radical-1.1609426?page=1

petronius

Universal franchise is what is needed - keep the university constituencies but people have to chose if they vote for them or on one of the panels - only one vote allowed - this would be within the constitution and by holding seanad elections (or nominations before) on a general election day would ensure no 2nd chances for failed tds

Mr Cumulonimbus

A general scheme of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) Amendment Bill was published on 14 February.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/Voting/News/MainBody,35475,en.htm

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/LocalGovernment/Voting/FileDownLoad,35464,en.pdf

Submissions on the proposed legislation can be sent in until 11 April 2014.

According the the Irish Times the final bill is planned to be published before the Dáil's Summer recess.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-moves-to-extend-voting-franchise-for-seanad-elections-1.1688056

RED L4 0TH

Submissions received from bodies and individuals on the General Scheme of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2014 can be read on the environ.ie website.

Home > Local Government > Voting > Public Consultations > Seanad Submissions.

petronius

I wonder if the results in the local elections will inspire Labour and FG to change the make up of the seanad electoral system - to reduce the power of councillors who by now seem to be heavily weighted to FF, Sinn Fein and Independents - who could potentially leave FG and Labour as minority in the next Seanad election

I think universal franchise is now the only way to go and Quinn and Prof Crowns proposals should be viewed and acted upon
if there has to be a referendum to change it, then make it so
but there is still scope to extend voting rights while keeping within the constitution by opening the panels to everyone

expectationlost

fine gael have big huge amount of tds to vote in senators