UTV now appear to be reselling VDSL at competitive rates

murphaph

http://utvconnect.com/ie/residential/broadband/fibre-optic-broadband/broadband-only/

The prices are very competitive and the download allowance on the capped version for €20 is 60GB, much more than with Vodafone. I think this makes UTV the cheapest of any of the VDSL resellers for naked broadband.

You'll probably end up with a VoIP phone service if you take a bundle so you could save yourself a few bob and take naked VDSL from UTV and then a flatrate VoIP deal from Blueface etc. for €10 on top, if you need your own local landline number that is.

This is my plan for my mother anyway. She's currently getting robbed by Eircom for sh!te ADSL but VDSL is currently being installed where she lives. I just hope it is available on her line. The capped version is perfect for her.

aisr1ofk43dpy5

Very interesting could you tell me the difference between ADSL and VDSL.

Nonoperational

VDSL is backed by fibre. You need a fibre enabled cabinet close by.

SpaceTime

Irish DSL explained:

Exchange-based:
ADSL = Up to 8 Mbit/s
ADSL2+ = Up to 24 Mbit/s
ADSL2+ LLU = Up to 24 Mbit/s using the provider's own exchange equipment. E.g. Smart Telecom, Magnet, often Vodafone/Sky over BT's gear too.

In Ireland at present this also comes with two different backhaul options: NGN in which case eircom will sell it as "Next Generation Broadband" and non-NGN. The difference is the NGN backbone is a very fast all-IP network and has loads of capacity where as the older links can have quite limited capacity and can be congested. In that case you'll get slow internet at peak/busy times.

Both NGN and non-NGN backbone networks run over fibre, the older network is just older technology. So, your local exchange could have plenty of fibre links but still be old-tech.

In general you'll know you're on one of these backwater exchanges as they've 1Mbit/s, 3Mbit/s and 7.6Mbit/s packages instead of 24Mbit/s.

Next Generation Access:
Street cabinet-based FTTC:

VDSL = First generation, up to 40Mbit/s not used in Ireland at all.
VDSL2 = Up to 70Mbit/s in eircom's setup at present (Current e-fibre etc)
VDSL2 Vectored (Launching soon) = Up to and beyond 100Mbit/s.

aisr1ofk43dpy5

Thanks for the replies lads. OP Im assuming line rental isn't included in that price Im on the phone and the link won't open.

SpaceTime

Those prices from UTV are very good.

I wouldn't go near the €20 option though you'd blaze through that cap very quickly and for €5 a month it's unlimited!

As for phone service, if you want a landline just plug in a VoIP phone from a service provider like Blueface or Goldfish and you'll be able to get a landline setup for about €10 a month including unlimited calls.

Over FTTC connections, VoIP works fantastically well as the upload speeds close to 20mbit/s giving you loads of capacity. On ADSL the upload speeds are often < 512kbits which can mangle VoIP.

Interesting to note that their NI fibre service is only 40Mbit/s. Seems BT are mostly still using first generation VDSL gear up there. Sometimes it pays off to not be the early adopter! Eircom ended up with pretty decent gear that should support 100Mbit/s or so in the next few months when vectoring is enabled.

murphaph

The capped one is literally perfect for my mother who only turns the computer on to Skype us and to check email. If you don't stream beyond the odd YouTube video then 60GB is plenty.

In Germany unless you're with Telekom you'll get VoIP as your landline by default. Most if not all VDSL resellers don't even offer a line back to the exchange. You just don't need it anymore in most cases.

murphaph

Gwen Cold Backgammon wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads. OP Im assuming line rental isn't included in that price Im on the phone and the link won't open.

No there's no line rental on top. You pay €25 a month for broadband only. If you want phone go with blueface etc. for another tenner a month. The utv modem may well support a legacy telephone without needing any additional hardware but they don't state what type of router it is.

SpaceTime

murphaph wrote: »

The capped one is literally perfect for my mother who only turns the computer on to Skype us and to check email. If you don't stream beyond the odd YouTube video then 60GB is plenty.

In Germany unless you're with Telekom you'll get VoIP as your landline by default. Most if not all VDSL resellers don't even offer a line back to the exchange. You just don't need it anymore in most cases.

The reason for that in Germany's not by choice though. It's due to differences in regulation. Comreg's keeping the options open for the moment.

*ALL* the VDSL2 modem/routers being supplied here contain a VoIP adaptor and analogue telephone RJ11 sockets.
Eircom E-Fibre, Vodafone Fibre, Digiweb, Magnet etc all supply the gear already whether they're using it or not.

AFAIK, Digiweb and Magnet provide their phone service on their VDSL/FTTC products this way only.

I would expect the local digital POTS exchanges will be phased out quite rapidly. People are moving very rapidly away from using landline telephony. Mobile phone packages are very cheap and getting cheaper all the time for unlimited / loads of calls and VoIP services, skype etc are becoming more popular than ever.

The technology behind the POTS (voice phone) network is getting quite old too. A lot of the digital exchange technology they're using is probably from the 1980s. It was cutting edge 20+ years ago.

I would suspect that you'll see voice service being provided by the cabinets. Eircom already use tiny cabinet-based exchanges in quite a lot of areas for voice. It's not that big a leap for them to just add some extra cards to a VDSL cabinet to provide voice.

That's a full current-generation eircom exchange : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85030716&postcount=4669 for example.

I mean UPC's one of the largest phone providers in Ireland and all of its customers are going over a managed VoIP network. Most of their customers probably don't even notice that it's any different.

I'd give POTS another 10 years before it's gone.

whiterebel

I looked at this and their installation charges seem very high. Also, they have a FUP on the unlimited, and from previous experience they enforce it. VF have a FUL but say they will never throttle it or cut it back.

murphaph

whiterebel wrote: »

I looked at this and their installation charges seem very high. Also, they have a FUP on the unlimited, and from previous experience they enforce it. VF have a FUL but say they will never throttle it or cut it back.

Deutsche Telekom and O2 said the same here in Germany before realising that without throttling over a certain amount that a tiny minority of users could take much of the bandwidth of the entire network and result in a poorer experience for everyone. I'm in favour of enforced fair usage policies.

SpaceTime

It's very much dependent on the network too.
A lot of commercial services like Netflix peer with ISPs or on the INEX so they've relatively little impact on well designed networks Some services can put a lot of pressure on ISPs international connectivity if they don't peer locally in Ireland in the INEX etc

They've all got FUPs that will kick in if you're a problem on the network though.

Eircom in particular claims to have more than sufficient capacity.

Each ISP has its own backbone though. They don't necessarily own it but they could use fibre capacity from a whole range of Irish national and international suppliers.

It's not all just eircom resold. they're just using eircom wholesale access networks to reach your house.

I'm sure we'll start to see which suppliers are up to it as more people hook up to high speed services.

Vico1612

murphaph wrote: »

No there's no line rental on top. You pay €25 a month for broadband only. If you want phone go with blueface etc. for another tenner a month. The utv modem may well support a legacy telephone without needing any additional hardware but they don't state what type of router it is.

The Wireless modem is a Technicolor TG589v3

aisr1ofk43dpy5

murphaph wrote: »

No there's no line rental on top. You pay €25 a month for broadband only. If you want phone go with blueface etc. for another tenner a month. The utv modem may well support a legacy telephone without needing any additional hardware but they don't state what type of router it is.

Thanks for that I wouldn't be needing a phone on it

murphaph

Vico1612 wrote: »

The Wireless modem is a Technicolor TG589v3

Cheers!

Any idea where I'd get a spec sheet or manual for that? Can't find one on the manufacturer's site.

Be interested to know if it support multiple SIP accounts and/or acts as a DECT base station, for example.

galait

Called then and Line Rental is on top of the €20 or €25 prices

bk

galait wrote: »

Called then and Line Rental is on top of the €20 or €25 prices

Well that explains this part of the terms and conditions so:

Terms & Conditions

1. eircom Line required. Fibre connection fee of €30 will apply. UTV Connect Fibre Optic Broadband is subject to a line test, exchange and cabinet availability. Minimum computer specification applies.

Bolded by me.

I was suspicious about that. Very misleading pricing information so, I think perhaps a complaint to Comreg and the Advertising Standards regulator is in order.

Makes this product more expensive then Vodafone and even Eircom so!

murphaph

Something is wrong here I think. UTV Are more of a budget provider. They were always cheaper, maybe not better. I find it hard to believe they would price that product so it costs more than eircom!

bk

murphaph wrote: »

Something is wrong here I think. UTV Are more of a budget provider. They were always cheaper, maybe not better. I find it hard to believe they would price that product so it costs more than eircom!

I know what you are saying, but on the other hand, UTV's prices were far too cheap given the wholesale rates Eircom charge.

€30 I could believe, €20 not so much.

Sully

murphaph wrote: »

Something is wrong here I think. UTV Are more of a budget provider. They were always cheaper, maybe not better. I find it hard to believe they would price that product so it costs more than eircom!

A lot of providers bundle the line rental into prices.. though I'd be surprised if any provider offered the fibre for the price of line rental. It means your getting it free at the providers expense!

murphaph

But with fibre the line only needs to run back to the cabinet, not the exchange. Perhaps the wholesale pricing structure is different as there's only "half" a line, so to speak.

I just fail to see any logic in UTV charging €25 if that's on top of line rental @ €26.50 or whatever it is now. They cannot attract ANY customers with that pricing as there is zero advantage. UTV don't have any other USP other than price. They don't offer anything "extra" to enable them to charge a premium. Sky have TV, Eircom have "we are the network" and Vodafone have their existing mobile customer base to directly market to. UTV have nothing really that I can see. Weird.

Sully

murphaph wrote: »

But with fibre the line only needs to run back to the cabinet, not the exchange. Perhaps the wholesale pricing structure is different as there's only "half" a line, so to speak.

I just fail to see any logic in UTV charging €25 if that's on top of line rental @ €26.50 or whatever it is now. They cannot attract ANY customers with that pricing as there is zero advantage. UTV don't have any other USP other than price. They don't offer anything "extra" to enable them to charge a premium. Sky have TV, Eircom have "we are the network" and Vodafone have their existing mobile customer base to directly market to. UTV have nothing really that I can see. Weird.

Your still using the phone line, hence why line rental is still being charged. Someone needs to pay for the fibre network.

UTV seem to have their own customer base and don't appear to be marketing directly across the republic much.

Freddy Smelly

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd give POTS another 10 years before it's gone.

it will be around a lot longer than you think... voip is very hit n miss where pots will work even if your net is down alot of the time.

voip can be very poor at times

murphaph

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

it will be around a lot longer than you think... voip is very hit n miss where pots will work even if your net is down alot of the time.

voip can be very poor at times

With mobile phones these days there's little need for a pots backup. My landline in Germany is VoIP as is anyones with VDSL here. I also think pots will be dead soon. Probably within 20 years.

bk

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

it will be around a lot longer than you think... voip is very hit n miss where pots will work even if your net is down alot of the time.

voip can be very poor at times

In my experience, VoIP services often have far superior sound quality then POTS.

loyatemu

naked VDSL is a wholesale product eircom are offering - the wholesale price is 17.50 per month (ex VAT) + traffic charges so hard to see how UTV could offer it for €20.

however if they're adding 26.50 to those prices, it makes naked DSL more expensive than their bundle which includes off-peak calls, which doesn't make sense...

Padraig Mor

Reviews for UTV internet are appalling. I was going to go with them before but throught better of it.

SpaceTime

There's different grades of VoIP though. For example UPC are delivering phone service using VoIP across their network. It is fully QoS managed from the gateway device in your living room to the VoIP server and switching system.

The vast majority of business phone systems are VoIP based internally and many are now connected to the outside world and other offices on VoIP SIP trunks rather that ISDN or POTS.

That's as good as ISDN really and a lot more flexible.

If eircom were to do something similar to UPC phone over efibre, I can't see how that would be in anyway an inferior service to POTS other than local battery back up in your house.

There are huge numbers of households already using this technology on cable services without any issues at all.

There is battery backup in the cabinets for both eircom and UPC services that should be capable of covering a power outage and the big nodes (exchanges ) are as backed up as ever.

There is also significant battery backup at mobile phone sites and they do not go down in power cuts although small local repeaters may do.

Provided that you install your own local ups system (available quite cheaply) you'll have backup.

A lot of people already lose voice service without power anyway. There are plenty of homes without Corded phones.

ISDN also goes down without power as terminal adaptors normally require power to function.

7upfree

whiterebel wrote: »

I looked at this and their installation charges seem very high. Also, they have a FUP on the unlimited, and from previous experience they enforce it. VF have a FUL but say they will never throttle it or cut it back.

What is the FUP?

domeld

Fair Usage Policy

AlanS181824

Interesting. It's false advertising though as they're not stating the full price I think

Sully

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Reviews for UTV internet are appalling. I was going to go with them before but throught better of it.

I'm a UTV customer for years. Service is fine, afterall its the same as Sky/Voda/Eircom etc. anyway.

Customer Care was very poor though. Seems to have improved lately.

billbond4

So if your using UTV you can watch iplayer etc no problem?

SpaceTime

billbond4 wrote: »

So if your using UTV you can watch iplayer etc no problem?

If you can : shhhhhhhh!!

murphaph

billbond4 wrote: »

So if your using UTV you can watch iplayer etc no problem?

In the very early days you got a UK IP from them but I don't think that's the case any more.

animaal

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Interesting. It's false advertising though as they're not stating the full price I think

Hmm, I'm not sure. I think it's like adverts for speakers that show a picture of the speakers plugged into a stereo, with small print saying that the price doesn't include the stereo.

It does my head in when they redefine words like "unlimited" to mean whatever they want though! When I pay my bill, can I redefine "€20" to mean "€50"?