Eco Builders

SeanoChuinn

Hello all,

We're living in Canada at the moment but are turning our minds towards a return home in next couple of years. Obviosuly we've got time on our sides as yet but we've already self "designed" (I use that term loosely :P!!) our home using google sketchup and obviously have to get proper plans drawn and planning considered etc. etc. so we have a fair idea of what we want. I know, I know there's LOTS more to do. But we're looking at all of these ECO home builds using timber frame with more radical recycled paper insulation, HRV and triple glazing, enveloping technologies combined with more traditional outer block leaf etc.
Most of the sites have testamonials but just wondering if anyone had more real life stories they could tell us. I've lots of trades contacts at home that won't be an issue, but we'd really like to get a home with some future thinking in place with cost of home heating fuels and even the disappearence of the same over time happening, energy effeciency and all of that.
Know its a very broad topic so any discussions, opinions or stories at all would be welcome. Thanks all.

Eoghan Barra

Hi Sean,

Sounds like a passive house - or something close - is what you're aiming for.

You'll find plenty of very useful threads on this and related subjects over the last few years on this forum. Best thing you could do is invest as much time as you can exploring them. Written by those who have been - or are going - through it all, they'll help you start to get an idea of which type of designs, technologies, materials, etc. (those that are available in Ireland), are most suited to what you're looking for, and what are some of the potential pitfalls to avoid. Usually a variety of opinions are expressed on each subject, allowing you to make up your own mind.

It's also important to know that the field of energy efficient building is in a state of pretty rapid evolution; only a year can make a big difference in terms of available products, ideas, prices etc., with things generally improving all the time.

A lot will depend on your budget as well, and whether you're prepared to self-build, how handy and good at managing projects you are etc., as you could easily end up spending an absolute fortune. Having lots of trade contacts here is already a good start.

BryanF

there are several well known architects & builders working with environmental sound building practices.
there are then the likes of the Passsivhaus movement which is great on comfort & energy savings but not technically related to environmental conscious building construction

OP there is a no shortage of good sources of info id start here http://passivehouseplus.ie/ but work through the back catalogs of its former titled 'construct Ireland'

SeanoChuinn

Thanks lads.

I have kind of come from a construction background having worked in that industry for 8 years in the past so have a good idea of how things work in traditional building, but I really need to understand how the newer types of passive homes are being built and how they operate as such - research is the way. When it comes to the work I'd love to do some self build, ground work - foundations/services/concrete finishes I'd have no problems, but there seems to be a complete package where the passive homes are involved so simply may not be able to do some of the specifics passive technology requires.

I find it really unusual to see Canadian homes being built with what seems like second rate timber materials, but yet every home is warm in winter and cool in summer so they obvisouly have the whole insulation factor down. Also the environmental differences I'd imagine are a huge factor where timbers here simply do not rot because of zero dampness in the ground or air out here whereas at home there is a higher level of moisture in the air and ground. The idea of no centralised heating system scares me ...hahahaha... having come from the traditional "get on the bog - save turf - burn turf - heat home and water" background. Though it still amazes me home many 'modern' homes I go to where there is only one warm room in a house at a time because there is an oil stove or open fire etc. I imagine there are still homes without proper insulation everywhere.

Anyway, we're trying to build once and build exactly(or as close as) what we want, trying to apply some forward thinking for a few years down the line where oil/gas/solid fuel may reach even more exhoribtant prices or not be readily available at all. Time is on our side, as our return will take a little bit of time till we can both find work back home etc. I'll do as much research as I can and thank you both for the advice and guidence.

BryanF

SeanoChuinn wrote: »

1. When it comes to the work I'd love to do some self build, ground work - foundations/services/concrete finishes I'd have no problems,
2. but there seems to be a complete package where the passive homes are involved so simply may not be able to do some of the specifics passive technology requires.
3. I find it really unusual to see Canadian homes being built with what seems like second rate timber materials, but yet every home is warm in winter and cool in summer so they obvisouly have the whole insulation factor down.
4. Also the environmental differences I'd imagine are a huge factor where timbers here simply do not rot because of zero dampness in the ground or air out here whereas at home there is a higher level of moisture in the air and ground.
5. The idea of no centralised heating system scares me ...hahahaha... having come from the traditional "get on the bog - save turf - burn turf - heat home and water" background. Though it still amazes me home many 'modern' homes I go to where there is only one warm room in a house at a time because there is an oil stove or open fire etc.
6. I imagine there are still homes without proper insulation everywhere..

1. by the time you get back you may find a new regulatory system that'll make it difficult for the self builder to get involved
2. true but if your in the trades there a courses available
3. insulation and air-tightness in better simply because each stage is signed off by the municipal building control. a job i worked on in BC was delayed two weeks because the insulation batts were not installed correctly and later another week because the vapour barrier/ air-tightness membrane was torn in places from the sparkies! their timber construction methods are not second rate just different due to the abundance of timber and climatic conditions
4. true but i did see 30 year old rotten timber from where the dpc between concrete rising walls and timber base plate was not installed correctly
5. passive houses do have a constant heat deamnd just like any other house - but its just lower. do note that current 2011 part L regs are very close to passive (except for example air-tightness levels and the detailing required) the reason for the passive enthusiasm is the irish regs system doesnt enforce the PH exacting standards
6. yep

SeanoChuinn

Another quick question. I see a lot of pre-designed house on the sites I've been looking at and I'm wondering are there any limitations on the type of house design for passive building? Like does it have to be open plan OR separate rooms does it have to a simple square or rectangular design rather than more complicated design? I'm seeing very few options on these sites other than the standard rectangular type?? Is it possible with the right designer that we can apply the passive needs to our design or close to it??

MicktheMan

SeanoChuinn wrote: »

Is it possible with the right designer that we can apply the passive needs to our design or close to it??

Yes it is . . .

. . . assuming your budget allows

BryanF

SeanoChuinn wrote: »

Another quick question.

1. I see a lot of pre-designed house on the sites I've been looking at and I'm wondering are there any limitations on the type of house design for passive building?
2. Like does it have to be open plan OR separate rooms does it have to a simple square or rectangular design rather than more complicated design?
3. I'm seeing very few options on these sites other than the standard rectangular type??
4. Is it possible with the right designer that we can apply the passive needs to our design or close to it??

1. no limitations, other than meeting technical standards of insulation
2. any shape you want
3. bungalow bliss type websites are not the place to start picking a house design - start with an architect
4. of course. the Passiv Haus is just a computer calculation of the design. it just happens to be about the best on offer to the domestic consumer. we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that the principles of good design were set out & justified by many others long before the passiv haus- most architects focused on these principles while studying, what we now need to do, is link this design flare with the best energy /co2 reductions possible

beyondpassive

SeanoChuinn wrote: »

Another quick question. I see a lot of pre-designed house on the sites I've been looking at and I'm wondering are there any limitations on the type of house design for passive building? Like does it have to be open plan OR separate rooms does it have to a simple square or rectangular design rather than more complicated design? I'm seeing very few options on these sites other than the standard rectangular type?? Is it possible with the right designer that we can apply the passive needs to our design or close to it??

Interesting Question.

1.A good registered Architect will be clever about how they design a house type that is specific to your needs and your site. They will optimise available light, views and space in as compact and economical a form as possible. Only when the house works as a piece of Architecture is Part L compliance and Passive considered. That said, It is best to design 'passivness in from the start, so being conscious of stacking wet rooms and stairs on the north and coordinating vertical and horizontal pipe, flue and duct routes makes for a simpler build. Designing for economical windows is also critical.
2. The site, clients needs and budget designs the house.
3. Don't be too restricted by the specific targets of Passivhaus. By building to Part L 2011 with Heat recovery, treble glazing and keeping your insulation in one zone, you'll have a high performance, low running cost home. Use Passive as a tool, afterall the process is more important than an arbitrary number.
4. Don't pre-empt the design process. Let the Architect share a vision for what is possible, leave your preconceptions and prejudices at the door. You'll find you'll have very different tastes at the end of a build than you had at the beginning. I've seen clients who liked 'olde worldy' twee victoriana develop a taste for contemporary clean lines, as they moved through the design process.

SeanoChuinn

Thanks for all the help so far. There's a lot of research in front of me but I'm starting to learn more about the idea of passive and variations of passive and the technologies that are involved. I've come across one Irish company a lot in my research and at this point i'm in Canada so there will be no decisions made for a very long time, but has anyone heard of <SNIP> in Ireland. I think I may be offside as you may not be able to talk directly about vendors, but they seem very well established and also open to explaining how the technology works regarding the heat recovery systems at least. Anyway just wondering I'm sure there are lots of suppliers and installers of these systems this crowd just seemed a little bit above the rest.

BryanF

SeanoChuinn wrote: »

Thanks for all the help so far. There's a lot of research in front of me but I'm starting to learn more about the idea of passive and variations of passive and the technologies that are involved. I've come across one Irish company a lot in my research and at this point i'm in Canada so there will be no decisions made for a very long time, but has anyone heard of <SNIP> in Ireland. I think I may be offside as you may not be able to talk directly about vendors, but they seem very well established and also open to explaining how the technology works regarding the heat recovery systems at least. Anyway just wondering I'm sure there are lots of suppliers and installers of these systems this crowd just seemed a little bit above the rest.

There are lots of large well established European companies with mvhr products on sale here

joeirish

Are you aware of the <snip>We visited a few houses last November and found it really useful to speak to actual owners about their experiences.

Hope posting the link isn't against any forum rules.

sawdoubters

http://passiv.de/en/01_passivehouseinstitute/01_passivehouseinstitute.htm