Left hand only lanes

Stheno

To start the thread, I drive a car, I don't cycle, but I try to be cognisant of cyclists.

I have two junctions on my daily commute which are multi lane where the left most lane is marked left hand only turn.

Every day I drive this route, I encounter at least one cyclist who deems this lane to be straight on and when the light goes green if stopped at red proceed straight, rather than their recognising that it's left hand only, and they should have moved.

According to rules of the road they should not be in the lane at all, but should have moved.
The second junction I encounter is particularly bad, I regularly have five plus cyclists doing this, and then giving me abuse if I try to move/haven't seen them etc.

It is in Dublin City Centre and a lot of them are Dublin bikes users, but shouldn't they either position themselves (given the lights are red) or give way?

Cookie_Monster

They should of course be in the correct lane like anyone else but some people are just stupid./

Stheno

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

They should of course be in the correct lane like anyone else but some people are just stupid./

It's frightful for me as a motorist, I've had up to eight cyclists in the wrong lane, and let them go rather than risk a collision.

I've gotten to the point where any right hand turn I do I am checking for cyclists, the abuse I have gotten from them being in the wrong lane is horrific, and when pointed out they are in the wrong lane you may as well be the devil

As well I'd a cyclist break a light recently and as I was legitimately turning right, break lights then drive towards me to stop me moving with abusive gestures.

Led to me changing my drive home.

I've no problem with cyclists, most are civilised, use hand signals, especially in the city centre, but that small minority really really make life tough.

Cookie_Monster

Stheno wrote: »

I've no problem with cyclists, most are civilised, use hand signals, especially in the city centre, but that small minority really really make life tough.

same with motorists, bus drivers, pedestrians and any other group you care to mention

Alanstrainor

A lot of cyclists are afraid to lane change, which results in this madness. I see it every day too, but it's just something you have to deal with.

victorcarrera

Inconsiderate or lack of awareness by the cyclists maybe. I doubt many cyclists who also drive cars would make that mistake. Although if there are cars parked over the road markings it is hard to blame them.

However I think you also misinterpret the meaning of a green filter.

From the ROTR.

A green light means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing. A green light is not a right of way, it is a licence to proceed with caution.

A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red light is also showing.

Stheno

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A lot of cyclists are afraid to lane change, which results in this madness. I see it every day too, but it's just something you have to deal with.

That really saddens me, as I only passed the driving test in my thirties, and was taught to accomodate other road users including cyclists and accomodate them.

I cycled for years in Dublin in the nineties and it was a bit take your life in your hands, but it seems now that cyclists feel that laws do not apply to them

RobertFoster

Where are the two junctions you mention? Some cycle tracks/lanes feed cyclists to the left of the road at junctions, even where there's a filter arrow that triggers before on straight/right. The fact that they're on dublinbikes might mean they don't know the area or light sequence, or are inexperienced or not confident enough to change lanes like Alanstrainor says.

rp

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A lot of cyclists are afraid to lane change, which results in this madness. I see it every day too, but it's just something you have to deal with.

Yeah all too common, but you need to be a very confident cyclist to move out into the straight-ahead lane, as not all motorists are as considerate as the the OP. There seems to be a 'keep left at all costs' mentality, whipped into cyclists by aggressive motorists.

galwaycyclist

Where exacrly are the cyclists supposed to go? This seems to me to be a wholly imcompetent junction design to put at any location where cyclists might be expected. In my view, the presence of the junctions you describe would raise questions regarding the fitness to practice of the designers and judgement of the officials who approved the use of such designs.

Under law, road authorities are required to consider the needs of all road users in performing their functions.

dubrov

A lot of cyclists aren't confident enough to lane change.
As soon as you move out, a car will invariably undertake you leaving you tightly squeezed between 2 lanes.

It can be a bit daunting if cars are whizzing by you on both sides

Sagi

Also to me that sounds like poor road design, of course the cyclists should use the correct lane, but it sounds to me like doing so would mean to be wedged in between the cars that will overtake you on the right hand lane and the cars dat will overtake you on the left to make the turn.

Personally I have been cycling in heavy city traffic for many years and I do not mind a situation like this too much, use the middle lane and try to take the space I need in this situation.

But of course there should ideally be a cycle lane on the left with a secure crossing for cyclists and pedestrians with road markings and/or a light.

ciotog

This is probably the only aspect of road usage where I knowingly break the law. At https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d468!2d-6.218694!3d53.36689!2m1!1e3&fid=7 I continue from the cycle lane which ends on the bend further back (towards Killester) into the left turning lane and straight on through the stopping area for the bus before merging with the 'straight on lane' traffic again. I have, from time to time, moved over to the straight-on lane when the traffic has been lighter but I generally feel unsafe doing so. Singalling does little to help; there are probably several reasons for this; the bend causes visibility issues, the downhill slope encourages increased speed and unwillingness to let a slow vehicle merge into ones lane. I don't argue the illegality of it but do feel it's poor junction design for cyclists. As an aside, most buses go straight in the left turn lane also.

Oldlegs

Stheno wrote: »

To start the thread, I drive a car, I don't cycle, but I try to be cognisant of cyclists.


According to rules of the road they should not be in the lane at all, but should have moved.
The second junction I encounter is particularly bad, I regularly have five plus cyclists doing this, and then giving me abuse if I try to move/haven't seen them etc.

It is in Dublin City Centre and a lot of them are Dublin bikes users, but shouldn't they either position themselves (given the lights are red) or give way?

If you have ever tried to cycle around Dublin and take the correct position in the lane you will always have some idiots in cars passing to close to you on the right and the left. The guys on the left, who are turning left are also liable to swing to the right to stay on the "racing line" before the left turn (even moreso if texting or on the phone, but that is another story).

Bottom line, if the cyclist in the LH-turning lane when going straight is your biggest worry then you may be missing a lot of the other dangerous road behaviour from drivers, motor-cyclists, cyclists and pedestrians.

Or is it Friday already ? Oh it is .....

Oldlegs

Alanstrainor wrote: »

A lot of cyclists are afraid to lane change, which results in this madness. I see it every day too, but it's just something you have to deal with.

A lot of cyclists are conscious of how bad some motorists are and such a lane change is asking for trouble.

Iwannahurl

Stheno wrote: »

I have two junctions on my daily commute which are multi lane where the left most lane is marked left hand only turn.

...

The second junction I encounter is particularly bad, I regularly have five plus cyclists doing this, and then giving me abuse if I try to move/haven't seen them etc.

It is in Dublin City Centre and a lot of them are Dublin bikes users, but shouldn't they either position themselves (given the lights are red) or give way?

Can you provide a StreetView link to both locations please?

Chips Lovell

Signalling and changing lane is a pretty basic skill that every cyclist should have.

cdaly_

rp wrote: »

Yeah all too common, but you need to be a very confident cyclist to move out into the straight-ahead lane, as not all motorists are as considerate as the the OP. There seems to be a 'keep left at all costs' mentality, whipped into cyclists by aggressive motorists.

dubrov wrote: »

A lot of cyclists aren't confident enough to lane change.
As soon as you move out, a car will invariably undertake you leaving you tightly squeezed between 2 lanes.

It can be a bit daunting if cars are whizzing by you on both sides

In a situation like this, I would occupy one or other lane on the approach to the junction and move in front of traffic waiting in the straight ahead lane. That way I'm not being passed on both sides nor am I obstructing traffic wishing to turn left as I am moving while in that lane.

Sagi

cdaly_ wrote: »

In a situation like this, I would occupy one or other lane on the approach to the junction and move in front of traffic waiting in the straight ahead lane. That way I'm not being passed on both sides nor am I obstructing traffic wishing to turn left as I am moving while in that lane.

exactly, in a situation like this you have to be confident enough to take the space you need, if that means moving to the center of your lane and causing traffic behind you it's still the beter option than causing an accident with the car that wants to turn or getting wedged in between cars

galwaycyclist

cdaly_ wrote: »

In a situation like this, I would occupy one or other lane on the approach to the junction and move in front of traffic waiting in the straight ahead lane. That way I'm not being passed on both sides nor am I obstructing traffic wishing to turn left as I am moving while in that lane.

You are breaking the law if you cross the stop line to get ahead of the traffic waiting in the straight ahead lane - its a variation on red light running.

Edit: PS That's not meant as an accusation or a "condemnation". These junctions are a classic example of traffic situations where the state has been pushing cyclists into breaking the law for their own safety and protection. The main offence rests with those who design these junctions.

cdaly_

Is the marked 'advance stop line' not covered there?

Mind you, where the car driver has (frequently) advanced to halfway across the pedestrian crossing bit of the road markings, I will wait behind that car...

ezra_pound

ciotog wrote: »

This is probably the only aspect of road usage where I knowingly break the law. At https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d468!2d-6.218694!3d53.36689!2m1!1e3&fid=7 I continue from the cycle lane which ends on the bend further back (towards Killester) into the left turning lane and straight on through the stopping area for the bus before merging with the 'straight on lane' traffic again. I have, from time to time, moved over to the straight-on lane when the traffic has been lighter but I generally feel unsafe doing so. Singalling does little to help; there are probably several reasons for this; the bend causes visibility issues, the downhill slope encourages increased speed and unwillingness to let a slow vehicle merge into ones lane. I don't argue the illegality of it but do feel it's poor junction design for cyclists. As an aside, most buses go straight in the left turn lane also.

Yes. I do this also. And then I have to be very careful trying to assume primary position approaching bridge coming from the left.

ezra_pound

ciotog wrote: »

This is probably the only aspect of road usage where I knowingly break the law. At https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d468!2d-6.218694!3d53.36689!2m1!1e3&fid=7 I continue from the cycle lane which ends on the bend further back (towards Killester) into the left turning lane and straight on through the stopping area for the bus before merging with the 'straight on lane' traffic again. I have, from time to time, moved over to the straight-on lane when the traffic has been lighter but I generally feel unsafe doing so. Singalling does little to help; there are probably several reasons for this; the bend causes visibility issues, the downhill slope encourages increased speed and unwillingness to let a slow vehicle merge into ones lane. I don't argue the illegality of it but do feel it's poor junction design for cyclists. As an aside, most buses go straight in the left turn lane also.

Yes. I do this also. And then I have to be very careful trying to assume primary position approaching bridge coming from the left.

ciotog

ezra_pound wrote: »

Yes. I do this also. And then I have to be very careful trying to assume primary position approaching bridge coming from the left.

You've probably already seen this but after the resurfacing work there recently, they've marked the cycle lane continuously up to the primary stop line now - taking you there via the left the turn lane. So it seems they've taken account of the way it is being used day-to-day.

eeeee

Cyclist in the wrong. It amuses me how scared said cyclists are of changing lanes, but happily sail into traffic in that exact situation. 'Cos ya know, it's safer :rolleyes: Makes no sense in my head!

ezra_pound

ciotog wrote: »

You've probably already seen this but after the resurfacing work there recently, they've marked the cycle lane continuously up to the primary stop line now - taking you there via the left the turn lane. So it seems they've taken account of the way it is being used day-to-day.

Yes. I have indeed. It's still pretty dodgy though. I hope that they end up putting those new bicycle symbols in the middle of the lane approaching the bridge to remind drivers that bikes should take primary.